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Software Glitches Stall Toyota Prius
t35t0r writes "CNN/Money/Tech reports that 2004 and early 2005 Toyota Prius models have software bugs that cause them to stall while traveling at highway speeds. While no accidents were reported to have been caused by the software glitch, could we be heading into an era where our automobiles will require software updates and fixes to keep them from literally 'crashing'?"
...from Ford.
Like planes, and other vehicles, any software problem should failover to a tested, less automated system. If my car stalls on the highway and I lose power steering and/or brakes, there's a big problem. Instead of stalling the engine, it should just shut down and let the engine take over, maybe flashing some warning lights.
I was only trying to install the latest windshield wiper drivers....
My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch.
for my flying car. There will be a plumet, followed by a very sudden stop at the end.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
...then... uh... i guess things would be just like they are now
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Sounds very Familiar
More to the point. How does everyone feel giving up full control of thier car? What about the Mercedes digital brakes? There is no physical link between the pedal and the wheels.
We were promised self driving cars, and we're on the way to it.
--sig fault--
"You have shifted gears. You must restart your car for these changes to take effect."
The 2001/2002 Ford Escapes have to have the EEPROM flashed as part of a transmission recall. The days of software fixes for cars have been with us for a while.
Oh. At red lights. Not at highway speeds. Never mind.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
video of the car-to-car worm via bluetooth/ wifi that stalls cars
you would watch it move like a wave through traffic: on one end, normal moving traffic, on the other, fender benders and honking horns and frozen cars
it would move under overpasses and propagate upward and spread in either direction, like dominoes
awesome and frightening and completely plausible in the next 10-20 years
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
They meant:
It's a five minute software upgrade, but if we told you that, you'd be upset when the service dept made you wait for an hour.
could we be heading into an era where our automobiles will require software updates and fixes to keep them from literally 'crashing'?"
Without putting too fine a point on it, yes! But there is no reason to go all chicken little. Standards of reliability for automotive software are generally much higher than for desktop PC software. No EULAs and auto manufacturers generally can not disclaim warranties. If a car breaks down due to crappy software, Consumer Reports will put out a report and people won't buy it. Additionally there are Lemon Laws and lots of eager lawyers to protect consumers. Unlike PCs where we have been trained to expect crashing software, people don't put up with that in cars, especially since there is the potential for physical harm when hurtling down the road at 80mph.
If OS's Were Cars If operating systems ran your car, and you needed to go to the shops... MS-DOS: You get in the car and try to remember where you put the keys. Windows: You get in the car and drive to the shops very slowly, because attached to the back of the car is a freight train. Macintosh System 7: You get in the car to drive to the shops and the car drives you to church. Unix: You get in the car and type 'grep store'. After reaching speeds of 200 mph en route, you arrive at the barbershop. Windows NT: You get in the car and write a letter that says "go to the shops". Then you get out of the car and nail the letter to the dashboard. Taligent/Pink: You walk to the store with Ricardo Montalban who tells you how wonderful it will be when he can fly you to the store in his LearJet. OS/2: After fuelling up with 6000 gallons of fuel, you get in the car and drive to the shops with a motorcycle escort and a marching band in procession. Halfway there, the car blows up, killing everyone. S/36 SSP: You get in the car and drive to the shops. Halfway there you run out of fuel. While walking the rest of the way, you are run over by kids with mopeds. AS/400: An attendant kicks you into the car and then drives you to the shops where you get to watch everyone else buying filets mignon.
1.2 million people a year die on the world's roads. Yet whenever a one-off incident (even a non-fatal / non injury one) grabs the headlines because there was something unusual about it, people start to panic.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
>> I have a 1999 Volvo S80 [...]
>> The steering is even drive by wire.
I think this is only partially correct. That car, like all other cars to date, has a direct mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the angle of the front wheels. That connection is the primary means of changing the car's direction. You should be able to observe this by turning the ignition to the unlocked (but off) position and observing that the front wheels still budge when you turn the wheel.
Volvo does have drive by wire for their outboard motors and for their line of forklifts, but the technology is not in cars yet; probably for legal reasons it has to be 100% reliable before they'll risk it.
There is one other sense in which you are correct: when the stability management thing intervenes, it is capable of steering the car to some degree, however it does so by activating the brakes individually or changing the throttle position not by turning the wheel. It's also possible that the power steering unit has electronically controlled boost under control of the stability management thing and tones down the boost when you're already oversteering. But these systems (braking and boost reduction) would not come into play in normal driving.
According to the organizations (JD Power, Consumer reports) who do objective studies of such things, the Prius has been more reliable, with higher owner satisfaction, that almost any other model.
Electronic systems are, in general, more reliable, with lower failure rates, than the mechanical systems they replace. They are also easier to service. (Though the repair bill may very well be higher, and specialized equipment may be necessary.)
This "software", as others have said, are not the same as the software we run on our PCs. The software quality standards are higher, and the testing is far more intense.
People lament the loss of simpler mechanical systems that can be fixed with know-how and a socket set. We publicize every example of a system failure we hear of. But the numbers don't lie: a 2005 model with a half-dozen embedded computers has a far lower incidence of problems than a corresponding 1970 model when it was new. You are far less likely to ever have to call a tow truck in your lifetime than your father/grandfather was.
Sensationalism is so much more fun than fact, though.
After pulling into a Denny's parking lot, I hit the power button to "reboot" the car... fortunately, most of the lights disappeared, and the gas engine kicked in, but there was still a few alert and check-engine lights on. I was able to drive the car another 15 or so miles at full highway speeds to the dealership, who were able to pull the problem codes (P3191 P0A0F) and reprogrammed my computer... and all is great again!
While I agree that the problem is alarming, it wasn't as bad as the article claims... the electric engine still gave me all the power I need to pull over safely. And this was the only problem I've ever encountered with the Prius, after 13 months and 18000 miles!
... because perhaps by then all the people repeating the tired jokes about "if microsoft made cars" will have given up.
Oh wait, this is slashdot, even the dupe is going to have tired jokes.
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
Whenever I get a 'new' car, I run down to the nearby college at night and find an empty lot and slide around a bit, and see what happens when I turn the engine off and if I can turn the key back and have it start magically, aka, a push start, which is incredibly useful if your car stalls while you're driving down the highway. (The other option being a normal start in neutral, but that takes much longer. And wouldn't work if your battery was dead, but that's a rather worse-case scenerio.)
Then I come back and do it again when it's raining, solely for seeing how it skids.
And if I have a car I've never tried it on, and I'm on a completely empty and straight stretch of highway, I kill the engine there, too, to see if it does something different at high speeds. (That's probably a traffic violation, but if a cop appeared out of the blue, I'd just say I stalled for some reason.)
I will admit I've never tried to solve a hypothetical 'stuck pedal', but, OTOH, the parking lots aren't really big enough for that. It's a good idea, though. I know I can shift into neutral at any speed, but I agree that cutting the engine is better...for one thing, it should let the engine slow down the car. I'll have to figure out some way to test that.
Do people really drive around in a ton of metal and not know in advance how it operates when bad things happen to it? When, exactly, are they planning on learning? The time to learn what happens when you slam on the brakes on a puddle of water is not in the middle of traffic. I once had an early antilock system that pulsed the brakes really oddly...there was a lag between losing traction and the unlocking of the brake, or something, I never really figured it out.
I mean, there are somethings you can't learn until they happen, for example, if you really need to stop the car, you can switch into park when you're going 20 mph, but you'd obviously never want to do that unless you had to. But what happens when your engine cuts off, or if you hit a patch of water while turning? Everyone should test that.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Power for PS(Power Steering) is provited by the rotation of the engine components. The power is moved to the PS pump via a belt (usualy, some are electric these days.) When you kill the ignition but the car is still in gear, the engine will still be rotating, as it wull still be conected to the drive train. Thus, PS will not fail until the speed of engine rotation is greatly diminished.
Power for PB(Power Brakes)is USUALY provited by vacum assist. This is created by the "sucking" power of an engine as it pulls air in the intake and pushes it out the exhaust. The engine is an air pump. As long as the engine turns you will get some vac. The effectiveness of PB will dimish at a migh faster rate than PB. BUT, there will be more than enough power in the PB system even after the engine stops rotating to fully depress the brakes to the floor. Basicly, as long as you don't need to come to a full and complete stop more than once after you shut off the engine the PB system will work just fien for you after the ignition switch is set to the OFF position.
Therefore, the best way to stop a vehicle with a run-away throttle is to 1) Kill the throttle, 2) Apply brakes 3) Shift transmission into lowest available gear(to use the fiction of the internal engine components to maximum effect in the effort to bring your vehicle to a stop.) 4) find something to "rub" your car against to use in an effort to bleed off knetic energy (your fenders are now your brake pads.)
Under most circumstances you will never need to use more than steps 1 and 2. In a downhill situation where gravity is adding knetic energy to your vehicle and simply stoping your car RIGHT NOW won't do (fast lane of a multi-lane highway) then you can use step 3 to conserve power in your PB system for when you are going to bring the vehicle to a complete stop. Step 4 is for when your brakes fail (and this get interesting*)
*interesting is defined by having thoughts along the lines of "Oh my God, we're all gonna die!"
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
and my wife's, twice. She has had hers in for the "recalibration of the computer." We'll see if hers acts any differently now than it did before.
It seems to me that the problem occurs when the computer tries to restart the engine, and it doesn't catch immediately. It does seem that the car will continue to run as an electric car, and it does seem to come its senses within a few seconds.
My blindingly white Prius is nicknamed "Snowcrash" for exactly this reason -- if the computer goes down, it's just a car shaped hunk of metal.
Thad Beier
I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.