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Before You Fire the Company Geek

An anonymous reader writes "A new 'insider threat' survey by the US Secret Service and Carnegie Mellon University finds that 82 percent of people who hack their company 'exhibited unusual behavior in the workplace prior to carrying out their activities.' A somewhat amusing writeup at washingtonpost.com points to a bunch of more interesting gems hidden deep in the study, including: 'Almost all - 96 pecent - of the insiders were men, and 30 percent of them had previously been arrested, including arrests for violent offenses (18 percent), alcohol or drug-related offenses (11 percent), and non-financial-fraud related theft offenses (11 percent).' The blog post also notes that 86 percent held technical positions at the companies: '...if you're going to fire someone (particularly company geeks who have the motive, means and access to inflict pain on your computer systems) make double sure you cut off their e-mail and network access at the same time you hand them their walking papers.'

44 of 624 comments (clear)

  1. Apologies to Tyler Durden... by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 5, Insightful




    "Look...the people you are looking for are the people you depend on. We fix your computers, we update your websites, we route your packets, we patch your servers, we guard your data while you sleep. Do not fuck with us."



    Seriously, though, sabotaging your former or current network is just a plain dumb idea, especially if it is/was your job to keep this sort of thing from happening. In the final analysis, the only real thing an I.T. professional possesses is their reputation. Trash that, and you'll find it difficult to secure further employment.

    --
    ____

    ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

    1. Re:Apologies to Tyler Durden... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      But your reputation only gets trashed if they can prove it was you.

      If they fire you, wait. If their system goes down the day after you are fired, it's pretty obvious you did it. But if their system goes down 6 months later, there is no link to you.

    2. Re:Apologies to Tyler Durden... by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 4, Insightful


      But if their system goes down 6 months later, there is no link to you.


      Until they look through their logs...

      --
      ____

      ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

    3. Re:Apologies to Tyler Durden... by Rorschach1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And anyone with this attitude really needs to read Heinlein's "The Roads Must Roll". Guess what? Your garbage man can take exactly the same attitude. You're not really as powerful or indispensable as you probably think.

    4. Re:Apologies to Tyler Durden... by netruner · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Given the fast paced, fix-it-now-clean-it-up-later sloppiness that is prevalent in our industry, it's not too much of a reach to put the following into the code:

      #include "MyHomeDirectory/MegaImportantAndNotCMd.h"

      You could also store config files there and flip that archive flag to "off".

      Folks will get a really nasty surprise when your account is deleted, but was it malice, laziness or just someone constantly running "under the gun"?

      --



      DISCLAIMER: This post was not checked for speling and grammar- if you complain- you're a whiner
    5. Re:Apologies to Tyler Durden... by bluGill · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Even if they system goes down the day after I leave, how do they know it was me, and not some random cracker in the city who happened to pick that day to target their systems?

      Yes, the day after I leave is a good time to suspect me. However they need more evidence or they will accuse an innocent person.

  2. Yeah, but... by bobalu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    make sure they don't run the email system first.

    --
    The revolution will NOT be televised.
  3. you can't prevent it by essreenim · · Score: 2, Insightful
    You don't need these things. You can almost always rely ona fellow employee to have a weak password - just use theirs. It's really to easy..

  4. Well, duh by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The blog post also notes that 86 percent held technical positions at the companies: '...if you're going to fire someone (particularly company geeks who have the motive, means and access to inflict pain on your computer systems) make double sure you cut off their e-mail and network access at the same time you hand them their walking papers.'

    Also, if you're going to fire an accountant, it's a good idea to audit the accounts they dealt with particularly carefully, and if you're going to fire a security guard it's a good idea to collect their pass and master keys as they leave.

    Of course, not screwing staff so badly that they are prepared to risk retaliation is also a good move.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    1. Re:Well, duh by R2.0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Of course, not screwing staff so badly that they are prepared to risk retaliation is also a good move."

      The problem is that there will always be people who believe that, no mater what the circumstances, they were screwed by the company/management.

      Bad performance reviews? Manager doesn't like them.
      Frequent absenteeism? Company's policy isn't flexible enough.
      Inadequate work output? If the Company paid me more, I'd do more work.

      Some of these reasons might actually be true, but for some disgruntled employees they can't be false - things are NEVER their fault. I'd be willing to bet that the same personality types for whom nothing is their fault would be the ones that have no problem with sabotage - after all, it's not their fault.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    2. Re:Well, duh by spells · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When the office asshole was fired, they waited for him to go to lunch, revoked all his passwords and user ids, collected his PC, and revoked his access badge.

      Just so that you know, in some large IT companies, you don't have to be the asshole - that is exactly how everybody is treated.

      What I never understood is that they also did this to people when they quit - employee tells his boss he's giving notice and security is called before the employee is allowed to return to his desk. If the employee was going to do something immoral, wouldn't he do it before handing in his resignation?

  5. Don't ya just love statistics by glesga_kiss · · Score: 5, Insightful
    'Almost all - 96 pecent - of the insiders were men, and 30 percent of them had previously been arrested, including arrests for violent offenses (18 percent), alcohol or drug-related offenses (11 percent), and non-financial-fraud related theft offenses (11 percent).'

    Hmm, statistics. I wonder how those numbers compare to people who simply work in IT and don't hack? I'd say 96% being men isn't all that unusual, and I would not be surprised if 11% of the general population has alcohol/drug offences already.

    The problem with stats is that they generally never give you a baseline. Without that they are meaningless.

    1. Re:Don't ya just love statistics by timeOday · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Even dumber: "82 percent of people who hack their company 'exhibited unusual behavior in the workplace prior to carrying out their activities.'"

      Unless the "unusual" behavior was reported before the activities, it's just retrospective finger-pointing. Useless.

  6. Big surprise by ShadyG · · Score: 2, Insightful
    30 percent of them had previously been arrested


    So you're saying that many of the people stupid enough to get caught, thus contributing to this survey's statistics, had been caught before doing other things? Can you say "self-selecting group"?
  7. Of those they know about... by PornMaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Now the good news: almost all of them got caught.

    Well, no... almost all of the ones they know about got caught. How many incidents were simply covered up? How many of the really good ones made it look like a typical software-gone-bad-and-erased-the-data?

    We all know that crime statistics are highly skewed by the reporting process...

  8. These number mean nothing by Blitzenn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "30 percent of them had previously been arrested, including arrests for violent offenses (18 percent), alcohol or drug-related offenses (11 percent), and non-financial-fraud related theft offenses (11 percent)."

    These numbers also represent the population of the United states as a whole. Yes 30 percent of the US population has been arrested before. more than 20% have a felony on their record and so on. So to paint these people as anything other than ordinary citizens is silly. They simply represent the whole equally as the whole represents itself. Nothing unusual here.

  9. Don't ask, don't tell by overshoot · · Score: 5, Insightful
    In the final analysis, the only real thing an I.T. professional possesses is their reputation. Trash that, and you'll find it difficult to secure further employment.

    Short of a felony conviction, that's hard to do. We're a migratory culture and the fact is that no ex-employer wants to do a competitor a favor by giving them information about a candidate -- especially when any negative comments could result in a lawsuit.

    --
    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
    1. Re:Don't ask, don't tell by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 2, Insightful



      Just make sure you document what you do, but not how you do it.

      --
      ____

      ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

    2. Re:Don't ask, don't tell by Thud457 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I document what my boss does. Black folder at the back of the drawer, if you need it.

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    3. Re:Don't ask, don't tell by v1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh it happens. Happened where I used to work - a new member of the staff (placed in a position of authority) found he had created an intensely hostile work environment. (by pissing off everyone in the building) He quit. I pointed out to our manager (more than once) that we needed to change passwords. "Oh, you don't need to worry about that." was the reply.

      One morning two weeks later the supervisor passwords on all our novell servers suddenly stopped working. Cute trick. We had to hack our own servers to get back in, at all eight locations. Fortunately, only the supervisor accounts he knew about had been changed, which made getting passwords reset much easier because we had a few "service" accounts for our paid support people with supervisor privs.

      Only after that did our I.T. manager agree we needed to change supervisor and dial-in passwords. *sigh*

      It doesn't matter who it is that leaves/quits/fired/whatever, if they had access to passwords, those need to get changed, immediately. Just because a person held a position of authority does not mean there is any reason to trust them with company property after they are gone. Looking back on it, I forgive him for doing it, it was our fault and we got what we deserved by treating security so foolishly. The lesson could have been much more painful.

      I'm against the concept of giving someone the boot without warning though. Funny how companies expect a 2 week (or longer) notice when you're going to cut out, but are perfectly ok with taking your badge at the front door when you come in on a Monday morning. Whenever an employer asks me how much notice I'll give them when I'm headed out, I always say "I'd never give you any less notice than I expect to receive from you." They smile, then they frown. They know how the game works.

      If someone's got it in mind to sabotage the works before they leave, odds are good that they will smell the pink slip before it's handed out, and have ample opportunity to muck with things.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    4. Re:Don't ask, don't tell by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It's scary to contemplate, but, with the exception of my current employer, every single one of my employers since I entered the field in '91 are bankrupt (remember Inacom?), closed up, sold out -- just plain gone. I've got no references.
      I've never bothered to give references or resumes. But then again, when you're originally called in because things are a mess and they need a silver bullet, looking through resumes and checking references is the last thing on their minds.
  10. Give me a big DUH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    When I was let go from AOL-TimeWarner they cut me out of my email and server access before the phone call (I had a feeling more than just a server crashed that day) - then they wanted to have a security guard escort me out and watch me as I pack my box of belongings - thank g-d my cow-orker offered to watch, rather than a guard. Sure take precautions but don't make people feel like criminals!

  11. What % was retaliation? by GPLDAN · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Here's what the survey doesn't say. That sometimes employers decide to retaliate against employees who point out problems or cause what management thinks is trouble. These employees often find themselves the targets of investigations.

    All surveys like this do is give ammunition to corporate management to investigate who they want, when they want, expect even less privacy and create conditions of employment so egregrious that the IT worker becomes chattel.

    As it is, there are systems to monitor web surfing, chat conversations, phone conversations, VOIP decoders for phone conversations that aren't analog, cameras, keystroke loggers, mail server agents that look for keywords, policies against the use of encryption, etc etc.

    With blood tests and mandatory screenings for crime history, blood history, pretty soon genetic history of family disease (company insurance is expensive you know they don't need any cancer heads) there will be no part of a worker's life that isn't controlled by the corporation that employs them.

    Surveys like this one cull fear in IT shops, fear of insider attacks, of competitive disadvantage brought about by unscrupulous employees. When, in fact, it's employers for the most part who engage in espionage and frame workers. It's easy and efficient. Want to get rid of that guy nearing his pension? Put some kiddie porn on his hard drive.

    We don't need any more tools to spy. We need some fucking national legislation to curb the uncontrolled police state that exists inside the corporations of the world.

    1. Re:What % was retaliation? by GPLDAN · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I suggest watching the Insider by Michael Mann. Do you think Russell Crowe's character deserved death threats? Do you think he served a public good by revealing the chemists inside Brown & Williamson were designing the tar content in cigarettes to be more addictive than crack and not informing anyone of it?

      What protections should the two women who blew the whistle on Enron be afforded? Should Enron have been allowed to cull through every email they ever wrote, every phone call they ever had, in an effort to smear them and discredit the allegations? Maybe out them as homosexual or reveal that they have cancer or sought a counsel for personal problems? Should that be legal?

      It's not so easy as "don't work for a corporation" is it? Nearly everything is privately owned. Hospitals are corporations. Sometimes public transit companies are privately owned. What government's job is to write laws that set the boundary of expectations of privacy. If a company doesn't have a written policy that was signed by an employee that they will read or scan every email, then they shouldn't be allowed to retroactively introduce email into a court proceeding.

      If you or somebody close to you gets seriously ill, and no company will hire them, you let me know how that "just don't work there" thing works out for you.

    2. Re:What % was retaliation? by VGR · · Score: 2, Insightful
      You're not kidding. I quote the first case from Appendix C:
      Negative Work-Related Events

      After more than four years of successful service marked by stellar performance reviews, management commendations, and nomination for the organization's executive training program, a female employee filed multiple complaints with human resources against her male supervisor and male coworkers. She claimed her coworkers had made sexual remarks, overridden her technical decisions regarding databases (an area in which she was considered an expert), and contacted her team's contractors regarding her projects without her knowledge. No action was taken by human resources, and the actions by her coworkers continued. The employee's performance reviews declined sharply in the next two years, and she was demoted. Subsequent complaints to her supervisor resulted in a suspension for insubordination. Almost a year following her written complaint to human resources, she resigned and began employment with another organization. Two months later, she learned that only her more recent, negative performance reviews had been forwarded to her new employer. She used one of several shared DBA accounts to delete critical table spaces in the organization's Oracle database, deleting crucial data.

      This seems like a mighty big pile of evidence to support her side. Many valid harrassment cases (yeah, I know there are many false ones) drag on for years and end with meager or no findings for the harrassed. What recourse did she have? They were ruining her career and her livelihood.

      This was a good example to include in the report, if only for balance, but the report forgot to mention why it was being cited: Companies can reduce their risk of insider sabotage by not being giant assholes. In more practical terms, keep your house clean; don't let asshole managers fester in the obscurity of lax oversight.

      (And since I know some childish dorks will assume otherwise... I'm male.)

      --
      The Internet is full. Go away.
  12. You can also use weapons. by Eunuch · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Higher capacity (more than ten) clips are now more available due to a recent law change. Hollow points aimed at chest and head should achieve a good kill count, while the limbs will just result in a lot of injuries. Ideally you should finish your spree with a suicide. Aim the barrel into your mouth pointing upwards. Obliterate the brainstem.

    Using ear protection and even body armor is recommended. You don't want any discomfort before you kill yourself.

    --
    Transcend Humanity. Please.
    1. Re:You can also use weapons. by tomstdenis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Clearly you've never fired a weapon ...

      You don't aim for the head unless it's point blank. Otherwise a chest shot is easier to get and more likely to be fatal as a result.

      Tom

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
  13. Re:What if... by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What if you are the ONLY one that controls the access to system?

    Scrap that. What if you are the ONLY one who knows how the system works? Ah, it feels great to be non-expendable :)

  14. Re:you don't even have to be suspicious by avalys · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The one year package turned out to be 60 days pay (required by the federal WARN law), then one month's pay for every year I'd put in.... with a 10 month maximum. I had 21 years, so I got ten months pay plus the sixty days... I consider that a ten month package

    I'm not disputing that you were treated badly, but why do you call 12 months of pay a ten-month severance package? If all you got was the legally-required two months of pay, would you say you got no severance?

    The government's mandate of two months pay doesn't make it any easier for the company to give it to you.

    Hell, if the government required five years of severance pay, would you still say you got nothing if the company gave you nothing beyond the legal minimum?

    --
    This space intentionally left blank.
  15. Re:you don't even have to be suspicious by Colin+Smith · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In business, loyalty has a dollar value. Mention that to your management at least once a year.

    --
    Deleted
  16. How to fire a geek by mnmn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The steps beyond walking him out should be done by another techie, and not just an MCSE.

    ALL passwords should be obtained before he leaves, and ALL should be changed immediately to randomized strings.

    All user accounts should be audited.. if its not supposed to be there, remove it or change its passwd.

    Audit all incoming ports.

    Force EVERYONE at the company to change their passwords to newer better ones. Any techie at a company remembers many others' passwords, especially if its like their last name etc.

    Take immediate backups of important servers and keep em seperate.

    Or you could simply give him a fat severance package.

    --
    "Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
  17. Background checks, anyone? by aquarian · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...if you're going to fire someone (particularly company geeks who have the motive, means and access to inflict pain on your computer systems) make double sure you cut off their e-mail and network access at the same time you hand them their walking papers.'

    It seems to me the real way to address the problem is to do a background check when you hire these people.

  18. What goes around comes around by iamacat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If a company is above board and decent dealing with employees, it will seldom encounter insider attacks and will be fully justified prosecuting them. Notify an employee of an impending layoff when the decision is made. Don't give bogus performance reviews just so that you can fire someone without giving them the severance package. Don't expect people to work overtime training their overseas replacements.

    On the other hand, companies that use underhanded tactics should be barred from suing ex-employees that are doing things just comparable in sleaziness. Don't expect to get back those nice gadgets that he took home :-)

  19. Re:Further down in the report... by Mad+Man · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Further down in the report... (Score:5, Funny)
    by It doesn't come easy (695416) * on Tuesday May 17, @01:15PM (#12557076)

    The survey went on to say that the remaining 18 percent of people 'exhibited unusual behavior in the workplace while carrying out their normal daily activities.'


    The original article states
    "that 82 percent of people who hack their company 'exhibited unusual behavior in the workplace prior to carrying out their activities.'"

    This does not mean that 82 percent of the people who exhibit unusual behavior are going to hack their company.

    That's like some racist bastard saying that because 50% of all homicides in the United States are committed by African-Americans (which is true), 50% of African-Americans are murderers (which is not true).

    Or some leftist bigot claiming that becuase 65% of all homicides in the United States are committed by someone with a firearm (which is true), that 65% of gun owners are murderers (which is not true).

    I'm sure there's a name for this common type of logical fallacy, but I don't have time to look it up.
  20. firing != laying off by CrankyFool · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think it's really important to differentiate "fire" -- hey, this guy is really bad for us and we need to get rid of him ASAP due to some actionable offense -- and "lay off" -- hey, we have a redundancy, or something.

    When firing geeks (having had to do this once), I think you need to do so with extreme prejudice -- take away access while they're talking to HR, lock down, etc.

    When laying off geeks, I prefer for the rules to be different. The person has done nothing wrong, we don't think they're an active threat and, until about five minutes ago, we trusted this person with our data -- because, presumably, we believed them to be honourable people. They've not stopped being honourable people because we've laid them off, and we shouldn't treat them as such.

    Been laid off twice in my life:

    First time was while I was responsible for a large group of geeks. We merged with another company and on the last day of the merger activities, I had the conversation with HR. New CIO had his own person and figured (accurately) we wouldn't get along. HR wanted to walk me out, I wanted to stay the evening because we were concluding a month of activity connecting the two companies. Ended up going up to the President of the company and saying "hey, I was responsible for this, I want to see this finished." He said "hey, no problem. Nothing personal." I stayed, we finished the connections, and then we went out and got stinking drunk.

    Second time was at a financial services company which was, by far, the most paranoid, employee-hostile company I've ever worked in. Thankfully, the CIO was far more sane. When he was forced to let me go, and I packed my stuff, I offered him the opportunity to look through what I was taking to make sure nothing was inappropriately taken (they didn't watch me pack). he declined, for the "hey, we trusted you until ten minutes ago" reason above.

  21. Re:you don't even have to be suspicious by IpSo_ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How does this classify as being treated like a criminal? I always get a kick out of employees who constantly complain about no loyality left in the work place, and how bad they are always treated.

    Were you in handcuffs and a orange jump suit? Put in to a police car with lights and sirens running? C'mon.

    Put yourself in the companies shoes for once.

    1. Companies are required BY LAW to give severance pay and/or notice when laying off employees. Employees can just up and leave any minute they choose for the most part. Not only that, a lot of employees that at least have the decency to give notice are usually an order of magnitude less productive in those last couple weeks. In the companies eyes it would have been less expensive to just leave and not give any notice.

    2. If a company is getting rid of an employee, don't you think its in their best interest to not take ANY chances? It doesn't matter if you've worked there 50 years or not, they owe it to their customers and other employees to remove your access and get you out of the building ASAP, "just in case". It only takes one bad apple to cause major havoc.

    3. Companies have a lot of people to keep in mind when they do business. Share holders, employees, customers. If a company is experiencing hard financial times, in a lot of cases (not all of course) it makes sense to get rid of the highest paid people. If you've been there for 10 years, not only are you normally get paid more then other people, you also get more time off, and require more severance pay. Since getting rid of one high paid employee can in a lot of cases fund two lower paid ones, it also doesn't look as bad to the public. Also because of the severance pay requirements, sometimes companies have to think years in advance, especially in your case. If you have to pay out 12months worth of wages to get rid of someone, you better make sure you do it at the right time and not wait until its too late.

    Yes, some companies are evil, but put yourself in their shoes sometimes.

    --
    Open Source Time and Attendance, Job Costing a
  22. Their conclusions reek - and will break companies by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They collected the data but then jumped to a very wrong conclusion and issued a prescription that, IMHO, will cause MORE harm to companies than it will prevent.

    The "geek" who has been a major player in running the show will be able to break in and do harm if he wants to. If he's of a criminal or revenge-prone he may already have installed a bunch of stuff - and if he's just doing his job he probably has emergency backdoors and the like in case the normal paths break.

    And while ordinary users may not have this sort of access, many of them WILL have been able to accumulate other users' passwords and the like. They too can get in and do damage.

    IF you motivate them.

    The decision is between giving them notice and an opportunity to gracefully disengage from the company, versus pulling the plug and THEN telling them they're fired. The gentle departure versus the knife in the back.

    As someone who has been in the business for decades, I have been laid off from time to time. The usuall procedure has been to give notice and allow the soon-to-be-ex employee to gracefully shut down or redirect his correspondence, clean out his virtual desk, and take advantage of the company email for the first phase of his job hunt. Doing this creates warm fuzzies all around - the social net is intact, mutual recommendations will be forthcoming at all opportunites, if the company ever had need for me again (eventually it did) I'd hire on with no qualms.

    Exactly ONCE I've had the no-notice shutdown. By a PHB who did it that way "because that's how it's done". (No doubt he'd seen trade journal articles like the one above.)

    I was furious.

    I COULD have done major damage to the company's IT infrastructure - but for my scrupulous honesty in business dealings (even with scumbags).

    As it was, when the PHB in question later did a startup and found himself in need of my talents, I didn't even bother to reply to his offer. How can you trust someone like that? You can imagine how I advised anyone considering hiring him or going to work for him.

    Now imagine doing that to someone who is not just able, but willing, to take revenge for any slight. These people are NOT rare - if you have a hundred employees, chances are you have at LEAST one.

    As a friend who was a union organizer once said to me: "The workers will give you what you ask them for. Ask for quantity and you get quantity. Ask for quality and you get quality. Ask for trouble and you get trouble."

    The surprise plug-pull is asking for trouble.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  23. Re:Further down in the report... by mmkkbb · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Indeed, just like intelligent design is referred to as "science".

    --
    -mkb
  24. Re:you don't even have to be suspicious by dR.fuZZo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Someone mod this +1 Bitter.

    If you got 12 months severance (I'm sorry, 10 months + 60 days) then you got off a lot better then some people.

    --
    -- dR.fuZZo
  25. Re:you don't even have to be suspicious by sploxx · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, some companies are evil, but put yourself in their shoes sometimes.
    That sounds like you want to see a company as a person, what it isn't.

    Although I also personally don't like people who always complain about this and that (which IMHO isn't the case here), I think I can't in any case have sympathy with an entity that is only there to produces things in the most efficient way.

  26. Re:you don't even have to be suspicious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    How does this classify as being treated like a criminal?

    Not a criminal perhaps, but certainly a suspect.

    Put yourself in the companies shoes for once.


    If you think this is a wise approach to treating employees who've been working there for years, go ask the remaining employees how they feel about their jobs after they've just watched their respected peers escorted out the building.

  27. Re:you don't even have to be suspicious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
    I think it was Bruce Williams (radio business talkshow guy) who said it best:

    Don't fall in love with something that can't love you back.

    I think your employer treated you OK, all things considered. They could have denied you access to your desk afterward, for example.

    In my two layoffs, I got no severance at all (due to bankruptcy), but in both cases we did get to clean out our desks an commiserate with our co-workers, etc. I think the year of severance pay is worth quite a bit more, actually; you can buy all your friends dinner and cry about it there, and still have a few tens of thousands of dollars left as consolation.

  28. Re:No it doesn't. by Muhammar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There is a sabotage that actualy works. It is legit, and it also helps your friends:

    1)Go to a better place (in the same city if possible)
    2) Hire away all productive people remaining in your former company.

    There are 2 categories of employees. The sugary HR will eventualy find out that they now have only one.

    --
    I doubt that we will ever figure out - and I suspect that even if we did figure out we couldn't do much about it
  29. Re:Bad math? by FirstTimeCaller · · Score: 3, Insightful

    OK, I was about to make a wise-ass remark along the lines of...

    So you'd no doubt prefer to see:
    83.673469387755102040816326530612% were acting weird.
    85.714285714285714285714285714286% had documented grievances.

    But then I realized that you had a point (other than just bitching about imprecise percentage figures). If 41 people is 84% of the total (I'm cool with that rounding), then wouldn't 42 people have to be 86%?!

    The only other possible explaination (other than illnumeracy) is that 85% of the 84% that acted weird had documented grievances (i.e. 35 of them).

    --
    Wanted: witty unique signature. Must be willing to relocate.