Lycos Germany to No Longer Store IP Data

quaker5567 writes "The Register is carrying the story that Lycos Germany says it will no longer store dynamic IP addresses of its customers. According to the German Tele Services Data Protection and Telecommunications Act, ISPs are only allowed to store communications data for accounting purposes. Apparently, there is no requirement for German ISPs to keep a record of IP addresses. A decision by German ISPs not to keep logs on IP addresses would be extremely controversial as the entertainment industry is increasingly demanding that ISPs disclose the names of suspected file sharers."

Comments

Options

[panxerox]

This has always been an option for ISPs. I can see keeping IP info for a week or so in case there was an incursion but after that the only thing that it could be used for is informing (whether it was coerced or otherwise) on your customers ! As customers we must demand that our ISPs no keep long term IP records. There are plenty of options to connect to the internet and we as consumers must tell our ISPs that we will make this an important part of our bandwidth purchasing decision.

Re:Options

[Gregg Alan]

So what's your opinion of Morgan Stanley being fined over 1 billion for not keeping email around? It seems like the same sort of case, yet the sentiment there was they were probably guilty, so it was ok. With copyright infringement, the sentiment is, the users are probably guilty, but they should be protected anyway.

That's a great point. IMO, the fine is wrong. Here's why: Assuming Morgan Stanley IS guilty of whatever the hell they are accused of doing, keeping records to prove your own guilt is nearly a violation of the 5th amendment. Or, at least, preventing such self-incriminating evidence to come to light could be considered exercising ones right to plead the fifth.

On the other hand, Morgan Stanley is not a person so these rights do not (should not) exist for them so fuck 'em.

In conclusion, my opinion is that ISPs should be required to destroy that data as soon as it's only purpose is to inform against their own customers. I think that because I constantly see advertisements for high speed internet access telling me that I can download music and movies faster that freaking ever. It's almost as if these ISPs are enticing me to download movies and music that I would otherwise not download because I would not have able to because my internet connection would not allow it to be possible. That's close enough to entrapment for me to *form my opinion*.

So, that is my opinion.

Re:Options

[tha_mink]

Here's an impression of me, the server admin of some secure data-farm...

Oh shit. They're not storing IP data...? Oh shit.

Cue the Russian hacks-for-hire..."Germany Boys...and quick..."

Just to play devil's advocate....

[Ninwa]

What happens when somebody does something more serious than steal music, are they just going to look the law enforcement trying to get information and shrug? I hope this does not mean that people will feel even more anonymous and get the gull to do things they wouldnt've otherwise.

2 Sides to Every Coin

[Anti-Trend]

What about data pertaining to spam and hack attempts? Wouldn't IP data be crucial for those purposes in addition to file sharing? Now don't get me wrong, I have zero respect for the RIAA/MPAA. But I'd have a great deal more admiration if they had simply put their collective foot down about the file-sharing privacy issue and left it at that.

Privacy and copyright in German law

[Peter Eckersley]

Unlike most other nations' legal systems, human dignity and therefore privacy is central to the German constitution (this was a result of its being drafted in the wake of second world war). It follows that German copyright law does not trump privacy concerns; this was one of the reasons why Germany invented the levy-funded private copying system.

Re:Privacy and copyright in German law

[henni16]

When was the last time you have seen a public CCTV in a German street or public place
That's right, they are not that common here, although the usual suspects every now and then talk about installing some more.

Yesterday, we read about a Professor being fired for stating his opinions in public To get somewhat offtopic:
Reading that I was upset like probably most people but thinking about it later, I really would like some more information about that case.
There was an interesting comment on the professor's blog that he announced (probably to the university and even to the Spanish RIAA equivalent as he said he told them about the lecture) to download some copyrighted works and then explaining why that wasn't illegal.
Now, if he was wrong about it being legal (who knows..) or it being doubtful, perhaps the university was threatened to be held liable for knowingly supportig copyright infringement.
So maybe this was more a cover-your-ass-reaction from the university('s legal department) than censorship.
Who knows (I don't understand Spanish) if they said something like: "Uh, well, go ahead talking , but you are not allowed to download Episode III using the university's network".
Don't know if that happend, but in that case it wouln't surprise (and upset) me that much..

As to the personal ID cards. I don't think the nationwide DNA databases you mention will be coming anytime soon
I didn't mention the ID cards. I was more going in the direction of lowering the requirements for taking DNA samples of suspects,
like dropping the need for an judge to approve this, widening the number of cases that allow taking DNA samples.
I read an interview with minister Zypries where she herself had to admit after continuous inquiry that her proposed law changes
would technically allow the taking and storing of DNA samples in cases like repeated shoplifting or even repeated riding-the-bus-withou-paying.
Well, and the public support for all this after the murder of Mooshammer a few months ago..
(To paraphrase comedian (is there something like "political cabaret artist" in English?) Matthias Richling:
"With all those supporters for extending DNA-collection jumping out of the woodwork and the backing they get now,
you could think that Mooshamer was murdered by a hired killer of the CSU" ;-)

P.S. I also don't think that the Personlausweis (without RFID chip for fingerprints and DNA)is a bad idea; not sure about the legal requirement to have one, though.

Meanwhile, spammers rejoice

[Otterley]

This isn't just good news for unauthorized file sharers. It's also good news for spammers, who assuredly will race to use any ISP which does not log IP allocations. Untraceable senders are great both for direct spammers, who will benefit from their untouchability, as well as indirect spammers, who will benefit from having infected spam relays on the net for a much, much longer time.

Oh, the irony...

[tamrood]

That the birthplace of the Gestapo and the SS may well become one of the last remaining strongholds of personal liberty and privacy in the world.

Oh, wait. They've seen this before, haven't they?

-- Alice Uber Deutchland

This is complying with German law, FWIH

[WoodstockJeff]

There have been several German PHPBB users asking how to disable the storage of IPs with messages on their boards, because saving that information is a violation of German law. Personally, I think it is ridiculous, but they're very serious about it.

These actions would just be extending that to the ISPs themselves. If they have no need for the data, it must be disposed of, or not collected in the first place.

Of course, given that this means there is no accountability through the ISP for the actions of users, I know I won't be allowing random IPs from Germany to connect to my email servers!

Re:This is complying with German law, FWIH

[tomhudson]

Its now the same in Canada under the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act.

Information can't be collected without your consent, and can only be used for the purpose for which it was collected. The fine us up to $100,000.00 per INCIDENT, so keeping excessive data on just 10 people could in theory cost a company a million bucks.

Holger Voss

[slavemowgli]

The article also mentions that another case (Holger Voss vs. Deutsche Telekom / T-Online) is currently being heard by a court; Wikipedia has some more background information on Holger Voss and on another case which is probably related.