Review: Star Wars Episode III

erikharrison writes "I just watched Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith. And it is good. There are lots of things I would like to say about it that I won't, as Slashdot isn't the place. Slashdot is the place to ask two questions, however. 1) How are the special effects and 2)What has Lucas done to the possibly tattered remains of my childhood?" Read on for Harrison's answers to those questions, and for Jamie's quite different impression of the sixth (and final?) Star Wars feature film.

The special effects question is easy: This is quite simply one of the most gorgeous films ever made. Everything is superb. Lucas has an incredible visual sense; he is a truly visual filmmaker, and his images hit home, are beautifully executed, and are technically stunning. Of course, we really and truly expect perfection here from Lucas, so this may not seem like news.

You are deceiving yourself. Lucas has frankly outdone what I thought possible. My jaw was on the floor the entire time.

But what about those tattered remains?

I myself am not a huge Star Wars fan. I enjoy the films, but I wasn't raised on them, didn't see any of them (except Episode II) in the theaters. I was one of those kids who knew Darth Vader was Luke's father before I had heard of Star Wars, because I saw the parodies before I saw the originals.

I will say this now. Episode III proves that "A New Hope" was a mistake. A freak accident of success, because Lucas seems incapable of doing fun action. How he managed to make "A New Hope" a delightful, playful, fundamentally fun movie is beyond me. Because when Episode III starts, it falls flat on its face, continuing the sad attempt in Episode's I and II to make the kind of joyous space opera that, of all six, only "A New Hope" managed to be.

Lucas however, can do myth very, very well. And once Lucas gets around to telling the Myth Of Anakin's Fall, the real story that Episode I and II have been leading to, everything works. Here we have the George Lucas of "The Empire Strikes Back" and "The Return of the Jedi." Hayden Christiansen goes from a pretty (if ineffectual) actor to being the tragic Darth Vader, and you believe. Darth Sidious is the villain that Darth Vader was in the original trilogy. Better perhaps, more sinister. The fall of Anakin is completely and utterly believable. I was shocked. I understood why he fell to the Dark Side. It's called the freakin' Dark Side for goodness sake! How could you freakin' fall?

Because of a tempter. Because of dark dreams. Because of love.

I don't want to spoil anything for those of you who, like me, went in not knowing exactly how it all happened. Some have always known the story, and are just watching it play out; some of us have willfully ignored the spoilers, and waited.

But I will say this for those who do know what happens. When order 66 is given, my breath was taken away. When the final battles occur, I was truly fearful. In other words, he doesn't screw it up.

I'm going to see it again.

Jamie also saw Revenge of the Sith, but it doesn't seem like he saw quite the same film. His thoughts:

I heard it might be good, so I tried to like it. I really did. Revenge of the Sith is one of the worst movies I've seen recently. It's Battlefield Earth bad.

It's not just that when Lucas tries to "do" myth he generates a world populated by generics. Nor is it just that the plot is absurdly thin (the movie exists to showcase the galaxy's most complete betrayal ever, brought on by two dreams and a promise from someone who couldn't be more obviously untrustworthy if he were twirling a mustache).

This movie is terrible first, because Lucas writes unbearable dialogue, especially in romantic scenes. And since the motivator is romantic love, we get a lot of bad lines. Remember "I don't like sand"? Episode III one-ups that. The climactic emotional moment, I swear to God, is a rip-off of Homer Simpson.

And second, Hayden Christensen is a lousy actor. There, I said it. Even with the silly script, Ewan McGregor is fine, and Natalie Portman brings life to a few scenes, but Anakin gets not a single believable moment. Even when all he has to do is look sideways, he's more fake than a losing high school forensics team. He's wooden like community-college Acting 101. I could go on.

Best I can say is that Jar-Jar doesn't speak. The special effects are there, and since they cover every square inch of the screen constantly, you will get many per unit time per dollar. If you like that kind of thing, you're going to go see it anyway, so enjoy.

Thanks go to erikharrison for his take on the movie.

Comments

How does Eps I-III Alter the Viewing of Eps IV-VI?

[Trillian_1138]

I am both a Star Wars geek and a performance/theatre geek, a dangerous combination which leads to over-analysis. Since seeing Episode III earlier today, I've been thinking a lot about how the presentation of Episodes I through III alter Episodes IV-VI. "Star Wars," as a single story told through film (ignoring books/videogames/comics/fan films/etc), now functions in six episodes tied together by numerous characters and over-arcing story threads. So how does this single narrative affect how Episodes IV-VI should be viewed?

For example, one of the great things about Ep. IV-VI was discovering Luke and Leia's relationship and that Vader is their father. The problem is, this only works as a dramatic issue for the audience (obviously it still works for the characters) if the audience doesn't know those things going in. Now, it's not an unreasonable assumption to say that everybody seeing Star Wars (even for the first time) already knows those things. But as an artistic work (granting the "Star Wars" films the status of 'art') Lucas removed a large dramatic moment of the story as a whole. Likewise, the way Lucas has set up the over-arcing 6-ilogy (sexilogy?) now places more emphasis on Anakin Skywalker's rise, fall, and redemption (and in some ways, parallel journeys by Obi-Wan and Yoda) than about the adventures of Luke, Leia, etc in IV-VI.

What does the Slashdot crowd think? Ignoring the actual presentation of Episodes I-III, was the very idea flawed, and does it do damage to the structure of Eps. IV-VI? Does the new over-arcing story cary enough value to disregard the problems it creates? Am I just over-thinking this way too much?
-Trillian

Another great review:

[XanC]

http://www.decentfilms.com/reviews/starwars3.html

The main site has a lot of Star Wars stuff on the front page: http://www.decentfilms.com/index.html

An interesting excerpt:

The problem with Yoda's ethic of detachment is that it's dead contrary to the unabashed humanism with which the whole story ends in Return of the Jedi, where human attachments -- filial loyalty, paternal bonds -- ultimately save the galaxy, destroy the Sith and the Empire, and redeem Anakin' lost soul. Yoda and Obi-Wan consistently counsel Luke (and, in the prequels, Anakin) against the very bonds that finally lead to the triumph of good over evil.

In the end, alas, the Jedi do seem too "narrow" and "dogmatic," not the great sages Lucas presumably wanted them to be. Perhaps the "prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the Force" was misinterpreted after all: Perhaps the prophecy was really fulfilled not by Anakin destroying the Sith order, but by Luke humanizing the Jedi ethic.

Re:Another great review:

[McDiesel]

Just because filial bonds lead to triumph in Return of the Jedi does NOT mean that Yoda gave bad advice in Revenge of the Sith. If Annakin had listened to Yoda and just for once not been driven by his desire to save Padme, then he might have been able to avoid the following:

1) Padme's death;
2) The rise of the Empire and the destruction of the Republic;
3) The destruction of the Jedi order;
4) The rise of the Sith;

Re:Another great review:

[GrouchoMarx]

In the end, alas, the Jedi do seem too "narrow" and "dogmatic," not the great sages Lucas presumably wanted them to be. Perhaps the "prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the Force" was misinterpreted after all: Perhaps the prophecy was really fulfilled not by Anakin destroying the Sith order, but by Luke humanizing the Jedi ethic.

Precisely! One thing that Ep. III touches on (and the DarthSide blog, one of the greatest SW fanfics ever, expands on) is that the Light and Dark side of the Force is NOT "good" and "bad". It's "life exists, let it be" vs "life exists, if you can take it by the horns you can make it a better place". The Jedi had long ago rejected the Dark Side completely on "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" grounds. The Sith, a specific small order of Dark Jedi, fully embraced the "control and order" aspect of the Force but were corrupted by it.

Luke, in the final battle with the Emperor and Vader in Ep. VI, is able to use his anger (dark side thing) to defeat Vader, but has the strength of will to pull back and not be tempted and corrupted by the power. (Parallel to Anakin vs. Tyranus, with the same person cheer-leading in both cases.) Why? Because he sees the growing parallel between himself and his father when he cuts off Vader's hand, and he realizes where that path leads. Sidious is about to kill him for it, when Vader (that prophesy dude) realizes what he has become and sacrifices himself to kill Sidious and end the Sith line. He sees that in his son is the true balance in the Force, and ensures that it is not destroyed prematurely.

The Force is already unbalanced with the Jedi, since they eschew the other branch of the Force completely. By bringing it back into balance, the light and dark sides are both recognized and accepted. Not something Mace Windu and Yoda would really have wanted, but but the end, Yoda's ghost seems to have come to terms with it.

My issue with Star Wars is that the overarching story concept (the above, at least as I see it), is AMAZINGLY GOOD! The actual execution is at best spotty, and at worst talks about sand. Still, stuff like the DarthSide blog, the fan stuff, really redeems a lot of it. Lucas has great ideas, but should leave the execution to someone else.

Re:Another great review:

[Rallion]

The novel is fantastic, really, isn't it? I have to wonder how much of the stuff in there (that wasn't in the film) was a result of Lucas, and how much was purely the creation of the author.

In the novel, the fight with Tyrannus is brilliant. Seeing the version that they put on the screen was a letdown. I didn't expect to be able to see Tyrannus thinking his way through the battle, of course, but still, a good 10 pages in the book were reduced to about a minute of screen time.

It was also disappointing to find that the best humor in the book (particularly a much less over-the-top version of Obi-Wan's wry sense of humor, which Ewan McGregor obviously tried valiantly to save despite some of his mediocre lines) was completely missing in the film. When Grievous said, "I was trained by Count Dooku himself!" (or similar) I braced myself to smile at Obi-Wan's reply, "Well, I trained the man who killed him." And then, it simply wasn't there.

Re:Another great review:

[Austerity Empowers]

Actually it would seem from Ep 3 that Mace Windu is acquainted with acting in anger, remember how close we were to being emperor free.

Anyway I agree with your conclusions, I just felt like Lucas really intended for this level of complexity, he could have made the statement more powerfully. Maybe I saw Ep 6 too young, but I barely grasped Luke's use of the dark side. I always imagined he got angry, acted in anger, and then turned away. He was, in my mind, dangerously close but in the end controlled himself.

Rather than the goofup that was episode 1, Lucas could have focused more on the faults of the Jedi. They do draw a strong parallel to certain churches (and eastern religions). On one hand they view themsleves as protectors of freedom, and champions of the people, yet they are isolated from them, and act independently. They are so selfless, they may not know what they're fighting for. They do not take spouses, they are selected as babies (before they are drawn in by the trappings of the society they live in). Really they're so different and incompatible with society, they're hard to believe as protectors.

Anyway Ep 3 was OK and I thought the only thing Lucas got right was the Conversion of Anakin Skywalker. Everything else was a loss, and Obiwan + Palpatine carried the show. Many things didn't work, plus how Anakin goes from being on the fence about Palpatine (and turns him over to the Jedi), to marching in to the Jedi academy and killing children is WAY too much for me to swallow. I accept that he would eventaully have turned into that, but it was too quick and too total.

I think the entirety of episodes 1-3 should have been the fall of Anakin & the rise of the empire. Less Jarjar'ism and more exposition. And for God's sake, get some real writers and a good director. Hayden LOOKED the part of Vader, but there's something to say for acting it too...

Viewing Order

[XanC]

You can't start at the beginning, because all of the others rely on the introductions in 4. Episode 1 assumes you know what the "force" is, for example, whereas Obi-Wan explains it to us in 4. And many of the twists in the original trilogy are presented neatly and cleanly in the prequels. My current thinking is that the best order is:

4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6

So that after "Empire", at the end of which Vader reveals he's Luke's father, we take a detour and get to the back-story: where he came from, the source of the Rebellion and the Empire, and his fall to the dark side.

It's all leading up to the climactic finish where the prequels allow us to better appreciate the scope of the triumph: the Sith destroyed, republican government reinstated, and Anakin redeemed.

this feels like *the* one to watch.

[baryon351]

This might be just wishful thinking from someone who sat through A New Hope forcing myself to watch it... and only mildly enjoying the next two. Eps I and II felt like an excuse for special effects, with only Obi Wan being a character I was attached to, but episode III - the beginnings of darth vader, the first things he does as Ol' Evil One... that's worth seeing I think.

I'm not a huge fan, probably not even a fan fullstop, but I find some parts of the movies attractive, and vader is *it*.

Dilema with my Young Kids

[syntap]

I have two kids, under age 5. Of course most of us saw the trilogies in the order 4-5-6-1-2-3. When the kids are old enough, should we maintain that order or do we show it to them in 1-2-3-4-5-6 order?

The reason we had to watch it in our order is obvious, but do the benefits we had in watching the films in that order cascade to the younger generations? What order will people watch them in five or ten years from now?

Re:Dilema with my Young Kids

[Dirtside]

Someone made the excellent suggestion that you should watch 4, 5, and then after we learn that Vader is Luke's father, jump back and watch 1-2-3 (or even just 3, since 1 and 2 really don't establish much that you can't relate in about two minutes:

"The Jedi found this kid Anakin, who had extraordinary power, so they trained him as a Jedi. Later his mom died and he kinda flipped out. Meanwhile, the Chancellor (guy in charge of the Senate) was scheming to increase his power, and started a fake war so that the Senate would vote him emergency powers. And he's been keeping an eye on this Anakin kid. Now, let's watch Episode 3."

I didn't have high hopes about this but...

[Andrew Aguecheek]

SPOILER WARNING

What annoyed me most was the inconsistancy. There were some moments that linked to the original trillogy rather well - Obi-Wan's "so uncivilised" comment about blasters for instance. But there are other aspects that made no sense.

Chewie and Yoda were apparently aquaintances and yet the Wookie never mentioned this to Han, or if he did, despite the trust between the two of them, Han didn't consider it to be a reason to believe in the Force.

Perhaps more grating however was the death of Padme - it was utterly unnecessary, Vader did not know if she was dead or not and so Palpatine could easily have lied and told him she was. More than that though, it contradicted Leia's recollections in Jedi - where she remembers her "real mother." It has been suggested that she remembers her through the force, but then, why doesn't Luke?

Of course the other irritation with the film was the godawful dialogue. The "no I love you" "no I love you" scenes between Anakin and Padme, Vader lifting his head to the skies and shouting "NOOOOOOO!" Thankfully, Threepio's pun chip does seem to have been removed, and there's a dispute over whether or not Jar Jar spoke at all. (If he did it was only something along the lines of "excuse me")

The effects were great though - aside from the lizard thing.

Re:I didn't have high hopes about this but...

[ghostunit]

If Padme hadn't died, Vader may have been able to feel her presence through the force or something. The real plot hole is that the emperor tells Vader he killed Padme in his rage. When he learns in ep4 that his sons are alive he should have realized that the emperor lied to him, since Padme wouldn't have delivered if he had killed her in Moustafar. And agreed, all the characters included for no reason such as Chewbacca, Jabba and the droids is lame and cause plot holes.

Re:I didn't have high hopes about this but...

[softspokenrevolution]

Yeah, the whole chronology never really made that much sense to me. People forgot about the Jedi and the force in about 18 years? What happeened to all the clone troopers, why did they stop using them in favor of the regular imperial storm troopers? Why is there such a massive shift in craft design after the empire?

Re:I didn't have high hopes about this but...

[Let's Kiosk]

My take on it is that Vader, believing the lie that he had killed Padme, lost his will to overthrow Palpatine and rule the galaxy -- without the woman for whom he sold his soul, what's the use? Plus his life now depends on this high-tech suit that the Emperor no doubt controls somehow (maybe a chip that can be switched off if he gets unruly), and Palpatine no doubt has some other Dark Side-related hold on to him. Also, Darth may not be strong enough to kill Palpatine by himself anymore.

So in the intervening 16-20 years, Vader channels all his rage, hatred, guilt and self-loathing into becoming the baddest ass in the galaxy.

Sometime between Eps 4 and 5, when Vader learns the identity of that protege of Obi-Wan's who destroyed the Death Star (hey, maybe the Empire should have been keeping a lookout for Skywalkers from Tatooine?), he indeed realizes that Palpatine had lied to him all those years before, and how much was stolen from him. That's when he renews his decision to overthrow the Emperor, but this time only if he can get his son to join him. Of course, he has to bide his time and make a big show to the Emperor of how willing he is to destroy his son.

It certainly helps explains why he was so murderously anxious to find Luke in Ep 5. I wonder if he also spent any time secretly looking to find out if Padme was still alive?

Re:But where did you watch it?

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean like these which ARE 5 insightful? http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=150103&cid=125 83803 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=150103&cid=125 84276 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=150103&cid=125 84378 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=150103&cid=125 83813 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=150103&cid=125 83967 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=150103&cid=125 83997 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=150103&cid=125 83925

See it dubbed!

[OblongPlatypus]

Spending the year studying in Barcelona, I ended up seeing Episode III dubbed to Spanish, and I truly and sincerely believe this made the experience better.

Most noticeable was the improvement in the scenes with Anakin/Vader, because Jamie is exactly right - Christensen in an awful actor. And much of this awfulness lies in the horribly wooden and monotonous delivery of every single line of dialogue, which means having it replaced by an experienced Spanish voice actor is a real blessing.

But the improvements weren't limited to Anakin's lines, and my theory is that this can be explained by the extreme use of blue/green-screen photography in these films. The actors are used to delivering their lines while at least in some sense being there in the environment of the film's story, and end up floundering when forced to work with the nothingness of a green screen. The voice-actors that do the dubbing, on the other hand, have years and years of experience in putting emotion in their lines without any sort of environment except the recording studio.

Maybe those of you in the right parts of the US can take a trip across the border to Mexico and see it there? Do they even dub films there?

Re:Human physics

[jamie]

Did anyone else notice examples of this?

Yes. Every scene where anyone did anything like that.

Which is to say, most of the movie. In Spiderman 1 and 2 the defying-physics stuff actually worked because it gave Spiderman a kind of half-alien insecty twitch. Every CG actor in Sith, flipping and flying around, just looked CG.

The fight choreography was terrible too. Whether in close quarters or the middle of an empty room, apparently light-saber fights look identical, nothing but big flashy sweeping strokes. Compare to the trailer swordfight in Kill Bill 2, or the bathroom martial arts combat in Unleashed.

(Spoilers herein) Wrong order

[PrvtBurrito]

In hindsight, I think many are disappointed that the scene where Anakin turns doesn't make sense because he is upset one moment and then a murderer the next. Personally, I think Lucas constructed this movie in the wrong order.

Why not have put the confrontation between Anakin and Obi wan earlier in the movie, perhaps having him not turn, but flee after killing Mace (Sam Jackson's character). Then Obi wan and him fight, producing a similar result as in the movie. Then perhaps having him storm the Jedi temple as the robotic darth vader from the other movies? It would have been a lot more believable if they had kept him away from being a mass murderer until he was burned and behind the famous mask. It also would have been bad ass seeing darth vader from the original trilogy storming in front of an army of storm troopers.

Re:(Spoilers herein) Wrong order

[PrvtBurrito]

That was effective emotionally, the problem I had with it was that it was unbelievable how he got there. They should not have let anakin turn to a murderer in a single scene, it just didn't make sense.

Re:(Spoilers herein) Wrong order

[wondafucka]

In my imagination I always thought that the transition was gradual, that many of the key jedi figures were hunted over time, that Vader's body parts were replaced one by one.

But then again, I'm not the one that's obscenely rich, here.

Episode VII

[Anonymous Coward]

After seeing Episode III, I guess we have to start waiting VII.. Seriously, are the episodes from VII to IX ever going to be written/made?

Lucas on the Mythical Man

[Adult film producer]

Lucas however, can do myth very, very well. And once Lucas gets around to telling the Myth Of Anakin's Fall, the real story that Episode I and II have been leading to,

Reminds me of the documentary Bill Moyers produced a few years ago about Joseph Campbell. The title of the doc was called "Joseph Campbell and The Power of Myth." Joey wrote a ton of material about mythology and how it shaped mens minds over the course of history. Fascinating guy, But the third or fourth video in this documentary, Bill Moyers travels the the George Lucas darth-vader ranch in California or where it was. Apparently Lucas was a student of Campbell, or least an avid fan of his writing. Lucas spent a good while talking about the inspiration Campbell provided him.

Here's a link to mininova, some people seeding The Power of Myth in audiobook format... not sure if that includes the George Lucas interview though.

http://www.mininova.org/search/?search=power+of+my th

Luke is "The One"

[alienmole]

Both Anakin/Vader and his mentor Obi-Wan die to save Luke, and Luke goes on to help save the galaxy and as you say, develop a less stuffy Jedi ethic. It seems as though any prophecy should have been more interested in predicting Luke than Anakin.

Then again, the Oracle in The Matrix told Neo what he needed to hear. If the prophesy was truly about Anakin, that may have been what was needed to bring about the desired chain of events. But that would imply some interesting things about the creator or source of the prophecy -- was the prophecy "merely" a matter of foreseeing the future, or was it a case of manipulating destiny by an entity with godlike powers who could foresee all outcomes? Either way, what does it say about free will in the Star Wars universe?

Re:Luke is "The One"

[brainee28]

I don't agree. Vader fufilled the prophecy by killing off the Jedi in Episode 3. The prophecy states that the Chosen one will bring balance to the Force. The Jedi assumed that the Sith was the unbalance to the Force, as did much of the audience. However, Jedi were the majority until Sidious and his apprentices appeared (Maul, Dooku and Vader). Anakin brought balance by killing off all Jedi. No more majority/minority.

Re:Death Star

[BoneFlower]

Possibilities:

That wasn't the Death Star, but a smaller scale prototype device to test out some of the technologies and construction techniques.

It was the Death Star, but due to the newness of the technology involved, it took a great deal of time to construct, much more time than Death Star II, which was simply a somewhat bigger example of the same technology. Real world parralel here- the first time you built a computer, it probably took a lot longer than it would take you now right?

Possible parralel with the Babylon project in Babylon 5- it took them quite some time to get a working station. Perhaps the Death Star was beset by engineering failures and sabotage along the way before they finally got one operational? As mentioned above, new things take longer to build than new examples of old things, simply because it is new. Compound this by running into unexpected engineering or construction failures, or sabotage, and things can take very long indeed.

Palpatine didn't disband the Senate until A New Hope. Presumably, the Senate did have some power over the budget and policy until then- not as much as it used to, but some. To divert funds for such a large secret project would raise lots of questions among fairly powerful individuals. They simply couldn't divert funds to get it done any faster than 15-20 years without tipping off the Senate, which may have still had the authority and/or influence to take down Palpatine, or at least make his rule more difficult. The second Death Star, however, would not be created under those restrictions. Palpatine had unlimited authority by that point, and if he wanted to divert fifty billion credits for a battle station, he could do so and just kill anyone that asked why.

It was the Death Star, but not right after the previous scene- a flash forward scene to the construction project a few years prior to the Battle of Yavin.

Re:Human physics

[Anonymous Coward]

Just brainstorming here, but fencing, broadsword, or katana styles wouldn't work with light sabres. You need to be keenly aware that there is no guard on the sword because any guard would be sliced off, as would be your hand!

So, wouldn't this demand a slashing style?

Somewhat failing to make the connection...

[gabe]

Caution: borderline spoilers (what? you haven't seen it yet?)

Personally, I just felt that Anakin's turning was too quick. There were three movies over which Lucas was going to tell the story of Anakin's turn to the dark side. My sense from viewing ep. 4-6 was that Vader was gradually turned, and it took a long time to "hunt down and destroy the Jedi." He did it in like 10 minutes! What "hunting" needed to be done? He just drove over to the temple and had at it. It took Anakin all of one minute to give in to the dark side completely.

... and I still didn't feel the connection at the end. I've re-watched ep. 4-6 after seeing ep. 3 and I just don't feel it. I keep getting caught on inconsistencies in the story. Example: in ep. 4 Ben tells Luke that his Uncle Owen thought Anakin should have stayed at home and not gotten involved in the war. Well, now that we have Lucas' full story, we know Anakin wasn't "home" on Tatooine. Hell, he only saw Owen Lars ONCE when his mother died and AFAIK, never saw him again. Discrepencies like that really fray the connection between the two trilogies. Broken.

Anakin's history as shown to us in ep. 1-3 does not seem to me like a reasonable history of the Darth Vader we see in ep. 4-6. It doesn't feel right.

Lucas should have focused more on connecting the story and all of its fine little threads instead of making beautiful lightsabre fights & space battles. The shiny special effects will wear off over time as the state-of-the-art advances, but the story will be forever disjointed.

And for goodness sakes, why did Lucas have to put Christiansen in at the end of ep. 6 as Anakin's "ghost"? He didn't replace who we see when Luke takes off Vader's helmet earlier in the movie. And now we know Obi Wan & Yoda spent 20 years talking to Qui-Gon in the beyond and figuring out how to become that ghost-person. And all of a sudden Vader knew how?

I could go on... but I won't. It was nice to finally see the battle between Anakin and Obi-Wan. That, at least, was believable.

Re:Death Star

[Infinityis]

I agree with the last possibilty the most likely. Seeing as how the Star Destroyers at the end of III looked different compared to earlier in the movie, and that the uniforms and deck layouts were different as well, I think it is a safe assumption that much time has passed between scenes.

The X Factor

[soloport]

I surmize that the real reason for the hideousness of the later episodes is simple: George can't write worth a damn.

Factoid: Lucas's wife Marcia edited American Graffiti and Star Wars; the couple were married from 1969-83.

Remember how the original Star Wars was so different? Mixed with humor and other elements in the dialogue -- seemed to consist of real entertainment.

Too bad Marcia wasn't there to influence all the episodes...

Re:Extremes...

[WaterBreath]

Again, no one in the theator seemed to notice.

I'd guess no one else in the theater cared. Let's face it, if you were so disappointed by episodes 1 and 2, why did you even bother to see 3? Same reason everyone else did: closure. The difference between you and everyone else in the theater though was that you were determined going in that this was going to be a bad movie and you just wanted to get the last few story elements out and be done with it. Going in I was scared it was going to be like ep. 1. But I came out more than relieved. Fully satisfied, one might say.

Personally, I was less than impressed with ep. 1, but I didn't think it was terrible. I thought ep. 2 was better. The romantic scenes were very annoying, because Lucas can't write good emotional dialogue and Hayden Christiansen can't emote realistic emotion (except for whiny discontent). However, I loved everything else about ep. 2. And after seeing ep. 3, I have a new appreciation for the romantic scense. Ep. 3 wouldn't have made any sense at all without them. It's utterly necessary that Anakin actually has a reason for his fear.

Ep. 3 was awesome, IMHO. On par with the first 3. Maybe better just because it was dire, so tragic, and looked so good. Moreso of all three than eps. 4-6 were able to achieve. Plus, it answered so many questions I hadn't even realized I had! Now I know why the Jedi shun emotion and attachment. Now I know why the Sith are so dangerous, and why they can get rational people to support them despite that.

Anyway, like I said, it was awesome. I may have to go see it again in the theater, which I don't do often.

Attention, mods!

[imsabbel]

THe parent isnt funny, but really insightful.

While the actors had to make their lines before the greenscreen, the voice actors for the dub could see the final mix, and so much better apreciate the situations the characters are in.

Re:Prepare to be flamed

[Hobbled Grubs]

Frankly I think that Lucas made something that grew so big that it is impossible to contiune. He doesn't have the same actors, completely new technology and a reputation for having made a cult film. I don't see how people can expect something in the same vein or something better every time. Episode III was awesome. If you forget about all the special effects and just concentrate on the story, it is a moving film. Shit I cried in it a few times. Anakin's transformation into Vader is perfect, Palpatine is freeded to be his dark self and the story fits in perfectly to something episode 4. People expect way too much, the film kicks arse.

Re:Proper Viewing Order: IV, V, VI, I, II, & I

[netwiz]

heh. The best part of that exchange (in V at least) was that the Han Solo line was ad-libbed by Ford. I swear, if it weren't for the fact that other people helped write and direct 5 & 6, they'd have been such colossal bombs that the series would have been universally panned.

Re:Human physics

[Anonymous Coward]

The physics were not good I agree.
The fight scenes were passible - but unfortunately with work like the Matrix (especially Reloaded: the freeway accident scene) and the amazing physics of Pixar's The Incredibles, it has become a huge challenge for animators to improve or even come close to matching work at these standards.
Another unwelcome moment is the River of Lava scene - again physics problems mean the balancing of the actors on whatever that was they were riding on was very wrong (unless the floaty box thing weighed about sixty tons!)

Take a look at the Incredibles, the scene where Bob first lands on Nomanisan Island, and takes on the Omnidroid 9.0 - fantastic work here.

A note or two of my own...

[catdevnull]

Ok. I saw it. I really liked it--it's Star Wars.

There are two things to remember when watching any of these films:

1) They are not Science Fiction
2) They are not the uber-cerebral life-changing movies you thought they were when you were a kid (and they never were).

Ok, those said, I think a pinch or two of salt should be added to your cinematic experience. Sure the dialog is wooden and contrived--if not corny. So is the acting & dialogue on anything found on the Sci-Fi channel, Bab5, Star Trek, Battle Star Galactica. Every one of those shows are cheesy but all the geeks seem to like them anyway. Why should SWEP3 be any different?

Lucas calls them "Space Operas" --and if you're familiar with that genre, you know that opera's stories and motivations require an extended suspension of disbelief. You just go with it.

Because all of the technology and theory in Star Wars isn't really explained, it just happens to take place in a galaxy far, far away, it gets lumped into SciFi genre. SciFi is a bit more satisfying to the "geek" types. But, Star Wars really doesn't quite fit into that category despite it's cover.

Hayden Christianson definitely comes off as a poor actor--or he isn't given very good direction to bring more dimension to his character. How was he in "Shattered Glass"? I think dialog and direction can make or break a good performance. Maybe if Lucas let someone else direct, it might have worked better.

I was blown away by the eye candy and I think it sets up the next film fine. I'm going to overlook some of the incontinuity others are finding just because I have more important things in life to bitch about. Afterall, it's just a movie, isn't it?

If you're a detail-oriented person, you'll probably be very frustrated. If you just like an entertaining, mind-blowing ride through Lucas's world, you'll probably enjoy it.

For whatever my $.02 is worth.

Not bad but hardly great

[pixelgeek]

While this movie wasn't as bad as the previous two prequels the plot and the acting really did little to present a compelling story of a man's descent into evil.

Anakin's path to the Dark Side just isn't believable. He goes from being confused and petulent in the morning to killing little children in the evening? Based on what? Certainly not the limited dialogue and character development we see on screen.

His reasoning for wanting to save Padme isn't explored enough. Hell Lucas could have just been a little more concrete and gien Padme a medical condition that *would* have killed her in childbirth. That would have been more believable than a dream that Aniken has.

The main problem really is that Lucas doesn't have the writing nor the directorial skills to explore this type of emotional material. His actors are always wooden and deliver really badly written lines with flat performances. This movie is no exception and its no surprise that the path from Aniken to Darth vader just isn't believable.

The movie looks nice but Lucas should stick to pulp sci-fi and avoid anything than hints of emotion or depth ...he can't pull it off.

Re:Why are Spaceships so easily OWNED?

[mabhatter654]

They switched bridges from the top spire to the front... it wasn't the same bridge.

under fire AG can go out! in SW ships you have AG and initeral compensators... not entirely the same things. if AG goes down for a little bit, then the planet's gravity will "override" the ships until it gets back under control. remember, ships in SW are not in "orbit" like our primitive term.. they are in powered orbit... so they could have gravity affect the ship if something happens.

As far as ships landing, it was a bit silly. I could see the "Destroyers" being much smaller than their New Hope counterparts... so they look small enough to be "landable". I always thought the Tantive was a corvete and it was always considered a landing craft. Comparing a jedi fighter would be a good case... when it "lands" on the tantive it's about 1/10 the overall leangth... versus the "destroyer" is's about 1/20 the leangth... remember they don't have hangers yet, but a covered bay...it's considerably smaller than a trade federation "donut" ship. Also, we burn thru at least 3 generations of ships in this movie... even the "greys" at the end are still several models earlier than the IMPS from new hope.

This is fun...

Re:Extremes...

[Omestes]

Actually, I thought the love scenes were quite realistic, as in REAL WORLD, and not Hollywood. Somewhat awkward, kind of silly, but the feeling was there.

Nitpicks (and spoilers...)

[CrazyTalk]

After seeing this movie opening day, I left feeling that Lucas did a great job tying Eps III and IV together (Obi-Wan thinks blasters are "uncivilized", Annakin doesn't realize Padme is having twins, etc.). But, after further review (and at the risk of sounding like comic book guy) here are a few of my nitpicks:

1. Obi-Wan is still called Obi-Wan after twins are born, and yet in Ep IV he states that he hasn't gone by that name "Since before you were born"
2. Obi-Wan tells Luke in Ep IV that his father wanted him to have his light sabre when he was old enough. Unless I missed something, Annakin never gave Obi-Wan his light sabre, let alone told him to pass it along to his son.
3. Not really a continuity error but - don't they have ultrasounds in a galaxy far far away? Why did Padme not know she was having twins until the last minute?
4. OK, so C3PO's memory was wiped (a cheat, if you ask me). But what about R2D2's memory? And in Ep III Obi-Wan interacts extensively with both droids, and yet HIS memory isn't wiped - in Ep IV he doesn't recognize the robots at all.

Re:Nitpicks (and spoilers...)

[Thanatopsis]

1. A slight exaggeration. It was meant to be a long time ago. It's called poetic license.
2.At the end of the battle between Obi and Ani, Obi Wan picks up Anakin's light saber and walks off with it. As far as passing to his son, that once again poetic license on the part of Obi Wan (See 1. Keep in mind, he also glossed over the fact that Darth Vader was Luke's father)
3. Padme probably knew. She was also unconscious at the time.
4. R2D2 memory wasn't wiped. Which is why he referred to Obi Wan as his master. R2 is clearly the more trustworthy of the two druids.

Re:Why are Spaceships so easily OWNED?

[Anonymous Coward]

So Lucas does a great job setting up the political situation that leads to Order 66, entirely believable that the Jedi would fall into the trap given their arrogance.

So why is Anakin falling so lame? I just can't buy it. And why does Yoda retreat when he does? The grammar challenged frog just retreats for no good reason to subject the galaxy to 20+ years of oppression. So much potential, yet so poorly executed...

Re:Amputated Hand: Slice of Continuity

[Anonymous Coward]

*** Warning: Spoilers ***

-

There is continuity in the way you describe; however, it is not when Anakin loses his hand (which, as noted, happens in Episode II, and does not result in his turning). It is when (*** Last chance spoiler warning ***) he cuts off Mace Windu's hand, resulting in Windu's death. When Luke loses his hand, and then takes Darth Vader's hand, he decides to reject the dark side; when Anakin loses his arm, and then takes Windu's hand, he succumbs to the dark side.

It might also be interesting to note that Anakin's turn to the dark side, and his return from the dark side, both coincide with the lightning attacks against people close to him.

(Aside: Wasn't Anakin's sudden and complete turn completely unbelievable?? It felt like the last few scenes of the movie were very rushed. Same with Padme's too-quick rejection, and Obi-Wan's quick change from reluctance to acceptance of his assigned task to kill Anakin.)

Re:The Biggest Inconsistancy

[Ender's in use2]

OBI-WAN: When your father left, he didn't know your mother was pregnant. Your mother and I knew he would find out eventually, but we wanted to keep you both as safe as possible, for as long as possible. So I took you to live with my brother Owen on Tatooine... and your mother took Leia to live as the daughter of Senator Organa, on Alderaan.

I'm sorry, but I don't remember this dialogue at all. Did you transcribe this from watching the movie, or are you just going from memory?

Here's my recollection of the conversation:

OBI-WAN: The emporor knew, as I did
that if Anakin Skywalker were to have any children they would be a danger to him. That is why your sister remains safely anonymous.

LUKE: Leia... Leia is my sister!

OBI-WAN: Your insight serves you well. Burry you feelings deep down Luke... etc.

Re:Prepare to be flamed

[Golias]

Why is Boba Fett from the original trilogy the best bounty hunter in the galaxy? His dad was once the greatest; he happened to be chosen to be a source for clones.

Except now we have the Special Edition version of Star Wars, in which Boba Fett is not "the best bounty hunter in the galaxy", but rather a full-time flunky in the personal entourage of a mob boss on a jerkwater desert planet in the middle of nowhere.

Why is Obi-Wan depicted in the original trilogy to be one of the best Jedi

He wasn't. He just happened to be one of the only ones left.

Why is Chewie a famous wookie?

He wasn't. Chewie was the co-pilot of a derelict smuggler who dumps his cargo at the first sign of trouble.

Re:Physical security

[Anonymous Coward]

Disco was refering to the factthe hilts also stop the enemy from sliding their blade 'down' yours and cutting your hand. The hilt catches the enemies blade, unless it is a lightsaber, in which case the LS would cut thru the hilt.

Personally, I'd like
a) a LS that can sense when it hits another LS, and turn itself off for a tenth of a second. This would allow a LS to 'cut thru' another LS and hit the bad guy who was blocking.
b) a LS with an adjustable length. Remember in Episode 2 when the Jedi are surrounded in the arena? Imagine one Jedi yelling 'Down!', and making his LS blade 100 feet long, then rotating in place, cutting down all the surrounding droids at once.
c) Jedi who can actually detect the most powerful Sith lord in existense while standing right next to him.

I guess I expect too much.

(And what was with Ben Kenobi using "something as random and clumsy as a blaster"??)

Lucas doesn't know how to direct a fight...

[icedphoenix]

Overall, RotS was enjoyable and while not a classic by any stretch, it was worth the price of admission (but not refreshments). Except for... Anakin v. Obi-Wan. After I watched it in theaters, I obtained the infamous time-coded copy of the fight, edited out all the Yoda-Palpatine parts, and watched it as a continuous 6.5 minute sequence. On that note, two things come to mind. 1) The fight works a LOT better that way. I mean, a LOT better. There's an overall flow and energy and it's much easier to actually see the story of that battle (Anakin's arrogance v. Obi-Wan's wisdom). After I first saw it, I had originally complained that the fight was basically 30 seconds of contact and 10 minutes of running around. With this constructed sequence, I can see that there's actually a good 4 minutes or so of action. 2) The one thing I HATE HATE HATE HATE about Lucas's directing style is his insistence on using close ups during hand-to-hand combat sequences. Whenever people are moving, shots should always be framed either wide or medium in order to capture the action. Saber locks are okay for closeups because there's no movement, but I really hate the way he flits from one face to other while they're clashing. A skilled director (re: anyone BUT Lucas) can capture emotion during hand-to-hand comabt sequences without resorting to over-over two shots, as if he were shooting a conversation. I have to admit that it wasn't as bad in movie as it was in AotC, where the original Anakin/Dooku fight was ruined because 90% of shot up close.

Re:Why are Spaceships so easily OWNED?

[xystren]

I've always been bugged by this as well.

"There. Plug in. He should be able to interpret the entire imperial network!"

Don't forget, R2D2 also had the complete technical plans for the Death Star. Those likely helped out.

Re:Extremes...

[glitchvern]

Personally, I was less than impressed with ep. 1, but I didn't think it was terrible. I thought ep. 2 was better. The romantic scenes were very annoying, because Lucas can't write good emotional dialogue and Hayden Christiansen can't emote realistic emotion (except for whiny discontent). However, I loved everything else about ep. 2. And after seeing ep. 3, I have a new appreciation for the romantic scense. Ep. 3 wouldn't have made any sense at all without them. It's utterly necessary that Anakin actually has a reason for his fear.

Spoiler Warning ... Spoiler Warning

Everyone says Lucas can't write good dialogue or direct very well, and after watching episode 2, I was inclined to agree, after all I've believed Natalie Portman was falling in love with guys in movies since she was 12, and episode 2 didn't convince. But after seeing episode 3, I'm not so sure. Considering that I was moved from revulsion of Anakin to pity for Vader by the dialog/acting in episode 3, "Master Skywalker there's too many of them. What do we do," and "Where is Padme? Is Padme safe," I think it might be a good idea to consider why the romantic scenes in episode 2 so utterly fail to convince.

On the episode 2 dvd, there are some deleted scenes between Anakin and Padme, that I think really would have added to the movie in helping to explain why exactly she was falling in love with Anakin. Also in the audio commentary during the scene where Anakin is "surfing" on the creature, the special effects guy says he knew immediately when Lucas told him about it it would be the hardest scene to do, and he tried to get Lucas to cut it, but Lucas wanted the scene in. The special effects guy almost seemed to be apologizing for the scene. Anakin's "surfing" really does look pretty fake. I think that knocked out people's suspension of disbelief, and is why the scene is so weak. I also think it's pretty clear the film needs a scene like that right about there, it's just been done badly. They should have redone that scene as something more visually believable.

I think episode 3 is the best movie of both trilogies, my previous favorite being Jedi. Sith makes Vader a very tragic figure, he's ruined not just his own life, but the lives of everyone he cares about for ultimately nothing. His actions destroy the very thing he is trying to save. Like I said before my previous favorite was Jedi not Empire the typical favorite. I don't usually like "dark" films. I generally want everything to work out in the end, but Sith is in my opinion such a great tragedy that it is my favorite of the films.

Re:Why are Spaceships so easily OWNED?

[Onan]

(First off, I can't believe that I'm actually defending any part of this craptacular movie. But the ways in which it was craptastic are different, so I'll at least give it its due.)

Palpatine seemed to have a look of concentration at a few points during the controlled crash. I got the impression that he was probably using his abilities to control their descent as much as he could without giving himself away to the jedi.

VII, VIII and IX

[janestarz]

I'm still hoping Lucas will live long enough to actually finish the next trilogy. After all, anyone who has read the books will want to see Timothy Zahn's books filmed.

I'm personally hoping for the Rogue and Wraith Squadron books to be filmed (fanfilms anyone?!) because they're just so damned good. I love Wraith Squadron most because they're not so much bound to the rules of the Rebels. And Wegdean'tilles just rocks.

Concerning Revenge of the Sith, I loved the movie, even though we were basically lying in front of the screen at the second row, but we did see it on opening night, in costume.
You know you're really too much of a fan when your costumes are applauded...

Luke IS the restored balance in the Force

[Pfhorrest]

You've got it down precisely.

Anakin/Vader was the "Chosen One". He returned balance to the Force. First, by eliminating all the Jedi but Obi-wan and Yoda, and all the Sith but Sidious and himself; and then, by killing both Obi-wan and Sidious, while Yoda died of old age and Vader died of his wounds. Thus, both the Jedi and the Sith were destroyed and the conflict between Light and Dark sides settled.

Where Luke is important is not that he is the "Chosen One" who would restore balance to the Force - he IS the restored balance in the Force! Trained by Obi-wan and Yoda, tempted by Sidious and Vader, and then freed of all of them, left with the strength and passion of the Dark Side that almost drove him to become a Sith at the end of RotJ, but with the control and resolve of a Jedi, and the ability to temper those emotions when necessary.

It actually reminds me a lot of the Vulcans and Klingons of Star Trek. The Vulcans are ostensibly the "good guys" on the side of reason and order; the Klingons are ostensibly the "bad guys" on the side of emotion and chaos. But throughout the series it's pretty obvious that the Vulcan's suppression of emotion is not such a great thing, and anyone can easily see how the Klingons' lack of reason is less than ideal. In that series humans are supposed to represent the "happy medium", people who embrace both emotions and reason and can control the both as needed.

And I agree with you wholeheartedly: the themes of this movie, first of Anakin and his unsuccessful struggle to find a path between the extremes of the Jedi and the Sith, and then of Luke and his successul mediation of those extremes, are extremely powerful and touching themes that are common to any person's existence. We are all surrounded by polar choices, few as extreme as these fictional examples, but nevertheless every person must at times mediate disagreements between their reason and their emotions, their personal faith and their agreement with society, the freedom of their actions and the consent of others...

As the old addage says, "all things in moderation", and as we all must struggle to find a suitable moderation between extremes, a well-implemented and convincing portrayal of these themes on an epics scale can be touching to anyone. Unfortunately, it seems that Lucas has failed to implement his story in such a convincing way. I am happy to hold in my mind an abridged version of the tale, and allow my own imagination to fill in the details in more acceptable ways. Perhaps someday this story will be told again, and better; either the Star Wars saga itself or another saga which tells the same essential tale. I certainly hope so.

How to 'remake' 1 -6 into something fantastic.

[beep_beep_yor_dead]

I have only two words for you... keep the CG. Keep the overall story. Keep the characters (ok kill Jar jar). The two words are: Quentin Tarantino Any thoughts?

"No, there is another."

[Anonymous Coward]

A new take on this, based on Yoda's warning to Palpatine about the possibly misplaced trust in his new apprentice, is that this line refers to Anakin.