Netscape 8 Breaks IE XML

An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft has alerted users that Netscape's latest browser appears to break the XML rendering capabilities in Microsoft Internet Explorer. Dave Massy, a senior programme manager for IE, warned users in a blog posting that after installing Netscape 8, IE will render XML files as a blank page, including XML files that have an XSLT transformation. What a week for Netscape 8.0; first the browser needed several fixes hours after its release, then it was discovered that without IE installed, Netscape 8.0 will not install, and now IE needs Netscape uninstalled to work."

Comments

Does anyone use it?

[coop0030]

I haven't tried out Netscape 8.0 (Firefox is fine with me for now), but what are some reasons people are switching to Netscape 8.0?

Does anyone have any stats on how many people are even using it? What are the website statistics showing?

To me this sounds like Netscape ran into a "too little, too late" situation with their newest iteration of their browser.

Re:Does anyone use it?

[mrbcs]

Agreed. I still use Netscape 7.2 on a win98 box because firefox seems to crash on me quite a bit. Gonna try updating the os to something a little more current and try again.

I tried the mistake called Netscape 8 the other day. It didn't last an hour. Back in the old days.. I used netscape 4.08 for years because it was the only one that was stable for me. I actually still use it a bit now and again, but it has tons of problems now.

Re:Does anyone use it?

[pebs]

I haven't tried out Netscape 8.0 (Firefox is fine with me for now), but what are some reasons people are switching to Netscape 8.0?

Surprisingly I know a good number of people using it. Though these are generally non-techies. Netscape's marketing seems to actually get some people to use it. I then have to go on to explain to them how Netscape is just a derivative of Firefox/Mozilla. Though in all these cases, these people have said they don't like IE or won't even allow IE usage on their PC. That's a good thing that they have awareness of that. Though Netscape allowing the usage of IE's rendering kinda defeats that.

This was a while ago (before Firefox 1.0), but one of my friends chose to use Netscape over Mozilla because Netscape setup a lot of plugins (Flash, etc) out-of-box.

Re:Does anyone use it?

[periol]

I'm afraid it's worse than simply "a waste of time". Apparently, Netscape 8 incorporates the IE rendering engine, and uses it by default for "trusted" sites. This is a seditious act by AOL to tie the Netscape brand to the Windows platform, and shits on the web standards the Mozilla team has worked so hard to support.

I don't know why you think it's a bad thing for the IE rendering engine to be in Netscape. I think it's a great idea, or at least it will be when they have it working right.

It can't happen in Mozilla or Firefox because they're open source, and won't use the IE rendering engine. But Netscape can, and all it means is that I can open those crummy IE-only sites in a browser other than IE.

As for your other complaints? It's called open source, and Netscape is in no way "shitting on web standards" or some such nonsense. They're just trying to address one of the major complaints that people have had about non-IE browsers.

You're outta here!

[TripMaster Monkey]

1. Netscape browser needed several fixes hours after its release.
   
2. Netscape browser will not install unless IE is installed.
   
3. Installation of Netscape breaks IE.
   

Back in the day, I was a big Netscape fan, and I waas really hoping that this new release would bring them back as a player, but enough is enough, guys. Three strikes, and you are OUT.

One more thing...
<zealot>
Firefox rules...IE sucks...let's fight!
</zealot>

^_^

Re:You're outta here!

[Java Pimp]

Actually, for me, Netscape was "outta here" when I started finding AOL links in every back corner of my computer.

Microsoft did the same thing with IE 4.0

[Anonymous Coward]

This is nothing new. When IE 4.0 first came out for Windows 95 and NT in 1997, it broke Netscape so it would not run at all. Even worse, if you attempted to uninstall IE, then NOTHING on the PC would function. Nothing short of a reformat would fix the mess. For this reason (and others) I vowed to never allow IE to infect any PC I care about.

It's amazing how quickly everyone forgets the IE 4 chaos....

Re:I'd love to see the reaction from the /. commun

[Adrilla]

I can already tell you the argument in that case:

Netscape breaks IE: They both use the same rendering engine. It was an honest mistake.
IE breaks Firefox: MS did it on purpose because they were losing marketshare.

How can this be true?

[jc42]

The article says:

I decided to install Netscape on a copy of Windows that did not have IE installed. From there I would see how Netscape ran.

But, but ...

Bill Gates testified in court, under oath, that IE was an integral part of Windows, and you can't have Windows without IE. Bill would never tell a lie, would he? Would he?

My world is shattered ...

I'm not updating

[timster121]

At home I use Firefox.

However, the company I work for standarizes on Netscape and IE. Right now I'm using Netscape 7.2. We were all told very specifically to *not* install Netscape 8 because of all the problems it's been having. This is interesting because previously we had always been encouraged to use the latest version to test out the new features and make sure our web applications were compatable.

Gentoo uses a sandbox

[MarkByers]

Gentoo installs first in an isolated sandbox (a fake root) which prevents a malicious installation program destroying the system. When the installation program is complete, portage finds the files which were installed into the sandbox and copies them across to the real system, keeping a note of which files belong to the packages, so that they can easily be removed later.

So although the problem of installing packages without wrecking your system has been solved already.

Out of interest, how do other distros approach it?

Re:Windows without IE

[sanyacid]

The best program I have ever used to customize my Windows installation is nLite.
You can completely remove IE and many other components and services.

Some features:
- Service Pack Integration
- Component Removal
- Unattended Setup
- Driver Integration
- Hotfixes Integration
- Tweaks
- Patches
- Bootable ISO creation

So far it supports Windows 2000, XP and 2003.
www.nliteos.com

Re:Smells like hypocrisy!

[jc42]

I'm sure you'd say the same if installing Visual Studio rendered an old version of GCC unusable.

Actually, this is a well-known phenomenon among "independent" Windows software developers.

I have a number of friends who are working on high-quality audio and video apps. One of their ongoing problems is that, when installed on Windows, they tend to break. Usually this happens soon after someone runs Windows Media Player (WMP).

I remember reading reviews back when WMP first came out. After giving WMP a poor review, the reviewers would then comment on how, when they tried running their other higher-quality audio apps, they were all broken and had to be reinstalled. They would then work until something triggered WMP, and then they'd all be broken again. And WMP couldn't be fully uninstalled.

The story became clear when the news got out that Microsoft had a simple solution: License your audio/video app through Microsoft, and it would keep working.

That's right; WMP contains a search-and-destroy component that disables unapproved AV apps. To make your app work, you have to sign over most of the rights to Microsoft. They'll then put your app on their "approved" list, and they'll give you a royalty on the sales.

Anyway, I know a number of people who have become rather depressed when the import of all this gets through their thick skulls. They had this silly idea that they could write their own app and sell it on the Open Market. Hah.

I just tell them that their naive economic theory is still alive and well, if they write their apps for OSX or linux. Or Solaris, for that matter. But Microsoft owns Windows, and they control the software that runs on it. This doesn't alleviate their depression. But a few of them have become Mac and/or linux fans.

My wife had a collection of audio/video stuff on her Windows box. She was getting more and more frustrated by WMP breaking in and taking over, totally screwing things up. One day we installed a bunch of things on my Mac Powerbook, and I let her play with it for a few hours. She then went out and bought one. A few days later, she gave me her Windows box, which I turn on when I need to do some testing of web pages against IE. She shudders at the thought of ever using it again (though she has to use Windows at work, and knows it quite well).

Anyway, I'd consider NS screwing up IE to be merely payback for what MS does to independent software. Too bad there aren't any laws against this sort of thing. At least, there aren't any that can be used effectively against Microsoft.