The Future of Linux on Laptops

katie_york writes "CoolTechZone discusses the future of Linux on laptops after HP and Ubuntu's recent announcement. 'What would be even more exciting for Linux is if other OEMs, similar to HP, took the same approach by partnering with selected distributions of consumer friendly Linux and started offering an alternative not only in third world regions, but also in the United States. In addition to that, support for Linux on the desktop side of things would be just as welcomed.'"

Comments

Priceless...

[TripMaster Monkey]

From TFA:

After all is said and done, I have to wonder if anyone from Redmond, Washington had any input towards HP's decision to offer Linux to the "3rd World" and exclude the U.S. (the richest Windows market) from it's[sic] Linux program. I would certainly like to believe not. Of course, we all love a good conspiracy theory now, don't we?

Wow...sounds like Gundeep Hora wrote this article with Slashdot specifically in mind...

^_^

Re:Priceless...

[NickFortune]

Just goes to show perhaps that this particular meme is starting to spread outside the fairly narrow confines of communities like slashdot.

I'm surprised this doesn't draw more attention. I mean it wasn't that long ago that one vendor had MS threaten to withdraw their windows reseller's licence just for offering a machine with no pre-installed OS. I mean we're not even talking about support here - they went ballistic just because someone offered the consumerbase choice.

In fairness, I should say that MS have no objection to vendors offering linux systems. Just so long as they're about three times the price of the wndows equivalent, run on crappt hardware, or are otherwise deeply unappealing. It seems to help the vendor hides the machine away or refuses to admit it exists as well.

Re:Priceless...

[kesuki]

Don't worry, Wal-mart will never buckle down to pressure from Microsoft. They will continue to sell PCs w/out OSes, and/or w/Linux. Yeah, many people hate Wal-Mart for the pressure they put on vendors/etc... But what other main stream OEM will ship PCs without an OS/ with Linux, and not charge you for a copy of windows? No, Apple doesn't count!

So if you want a Linux Laptop, in the US right now, you've got wal-mart, and some small computer shops that probably have the license cost for windows included in your purchase price.

Re:Priceless...

[gowen]

Wow...sounds like Gundeep Hora wrote this article with Slashdot specifically in mind...

Maybe he was targetting it at his slashdot-reading sister ... "Karma Hora".

Europe the new third world

[FidelCatsro]

"started offering an alternative not only in third world regions, but also in the United States" .. Didn't HP launch it in Europe and South africa ..perhaps im wrong.
I was unaware i lived in a developing nation , such as um the whole of Europe

Re:Europe the new third world

[MoonBuggy]

I take it you've never been to Birmingham then?

*ducks*

The world

[Docrates]

not only in third world regions, but also in the United States

So I guess that leaves Europe, Canada, Australia, and many others out uh?

I know, I know, it's a US centric site (per your FAQ), but we still feel it you know?

Upgrades?

[bmalek]

I agree that this is the way to do it (making sure all the hardware works with Linux), however what happens when somone wants to do an upgrade down the road? Chances are they are going to have to choose from a very small list (by comparison to a Windows machine) of upgrades that now work with their version of Linux.

Now some of you may not think this is a bad thing, but I can see where it could be heading... Want that new upgrade? Send your machine back to HP and for $400 you can have this $100 piece of hardware because you have no choices and we can charge you whatver we want! Profit margins here we come...

Re:Upgrades?

[jusdisgi]

Chances are they are going to have to choose from a very small list (by comparison to a Windows machine) of upgrades that now work with their version of Linux.

For fuck's sake, why don't you actually try a Linux installation sometime, instead of perpetuating this ridiculous bullshit story of Linux's hardware support "problems." Send it back to HP? Are you on drugs?

Linux has excellent hardware support. There is one major wireless chipset that does not have native support, and thus requires you to use the windows driver through ndiswrapper. There are some winmodems that don't work, or are hard to make work. And there are a few printers yet out there that don't behave.

Now, to put that in perspective, lots of printers won't work with Windows XP. And lots of wireless cards won't work in Windows 9x. Various legacy stuff doesn't work on newer versions, and the number of times you'll need a third-party driver is vastly higher in my experience on Windows than Linux. I've got 3 usb->serial dongles; in XP, they each need a different driver, none of which came with the OS....if you want to use them with XP, you'd better have the CD that they came with. Each one is automatically recognized and assigned a device file when plugged into any modern Linux box. Same story with my Sprint PCS phone's data connection; Linux just recognizes it as an ACM device, and you can use the regular dialup setup. To do that in Windows, you have to find a driver, which is very difficult without buying a $40 outlook-sync program.

The truth of the matter is, more hardware will run on modern Linux than any single version of Windows ever produced. Your post was 100% sheer FUD. And if you disagree, and want to come back here and bitch and moan some more, why don't you start with theorizing at least one upgrade you can think of that a normal user would be able to do himself on Windows, but would have to send the box back to HP to accomplish on Linux. I dare you.

Are we really still having problems?

[garcia]

Apparently, HP is determined to make certain models work 100 percent with Ubuntu.

Is Linux still suffering from incompatible hardware in computers these days? I haven't purchased a laptop since 1996 but it ran Linux (I did have to use AcceleratedX because at the time XFree didn't support the video card chipset) just fine.

Are we still having serious problems with people not being able to use their computers 100% with Linux or are they talking about "out-of-the-box" with no configuration necessary?

Whatever

[Otter]

Anyone who was using Linux in 1999 remembers when there were announcements like this every day. (Dell partners with Red Hat! Compaq partners with Ximian! Dell partners with Eazel! Compaq partners with Red Hat!) None of it amounted to anything.

This is good news, I guess, and making something work with free drivers on any one distribution makes it work (with some kicking and swearing, anyway) on all Linux. But I'm not throwing a party just yet...

Strange Choice

[Nytewynd]

It would seem that the it would make more sense at first to design a desktop that is 100% linux compatible. The vast majority of Linux machines are acting as servers of some sort or are being used by us geeks that are locked in a basement with no windows anyway, and have no reason to be portable. I don't see the average college kid running out to buy a linux machine for school, nor do I see executives deciding to buy linux machines for their traveling businessmen.

You can also get more horsepower for cheaper. I'm sure that are plenty of people that want a Linux laptop, but if I was going to specifically design hardware for linux, I would start with a desktop. I would probably also include the US, but that's another story.

I will buy

[fimbulvetr]

While I've never been an HP fan, I'd be inclined to purchase one of these after reading the initial reviews.
I'd be especially interested if it had an AMD processor.
HP had one of the best laptop repair policies I've ever seen. Back when I did HP warranty work, one could send in a (broken for just about any reason) laptop, and pay a flat $400 fee for getting it fixed. While that may sound expensive, it's a heck of a lot cheaper than paying for the parts + labor for an LCD replacement.
Additionally, it seems HP doesn't hide behind the "bad pixels are not a defect" policy. While some manufactures (*Cough* Apple, Dell) require that your LCD has at least 20+ bad pixels before they fix, I've seen HP repair laptops with 5 or less.

Obviously, this is anecdotal, and their policies may have changed.

Re:Linux, installation and ease of use

[Redrover5545]

It's not a matter of the ease of the installation of the Linux distribution or the fact that it's installed by the OEM, it's that the laptop hardware is probably specially chosen and configured for linux.

The problem with linux on laptops is that it is very difficult to find the right drivers for every peice of hardware like the graphic card, the sound card, etc. If HP designs a laptop from the ground up with linux in mind, they can make sure that the parts they choose come with good drivers, or at least froce the manufacturers to provide better drivers.

I would be happy with a OS Free system

[cyberlotnet]

1. How many true "geeks" run a system "as it is shipped" Im willing to bet most of us reinstall for one reason or another soon as we get the system. Maybe we want a diffrent partition setup? Maybe we want to make sure there are no Vendor installed CPU wasting crap installed.. For what ever reason most geeks reinstall the OS soon as the computer enters there care.

2. I don't want to be limited to what I can run.. I don't want to be "taxed" for software I will never use.

So in the end I really don't care what OS's you offer.. What I want is the ability to order a laptop void of any OS at all!!!

Re:I would be happy with a OS Free system

[jzono1]

Not possible due to the demands by m$, one _CAN NOT_ sell computers without an os if one is at the same time selling m$ stuff.

Re:Linux, installation and ease of use

[bad_outlook]

I disagree, I've been running Ubuntu at home for 6 months now, and I don't have to do anything. When updates are avail, you get a little icon by the clock, you click it, enter your password, and have it install/configure everything; just as Windows does, just as Mac does. While Ubuntu doesn't have all the media stuff installed by default, I think some basic instructions about how to install them via Synaptic would suffice. I just rebuilt my mom's 2.8G Dell - it was "slow" due to her using XP and collecting plenty of spyware and such. It's now an XP / Ubuntu dual boot so she can have an option to play in Linux. Yes, she's mid 60s now, and I've been on Linux for about 7 years. While I loved learning on Slack/Gentoo for my servers (now freebsd) I like not having to do anything to make my desktop work.

So, I think once setup properly (which I'd assume HP would do) Ubuntu is a perfect choice for non-techies to get into Linux on the desktop. For people with Linux exp like me, I love seeing how everything 'just works' after years of battling with apps/libs/kernels to get things just right on the desktop. I've got Ubuntu on my iBook, but would make my next purchase an HP if they bring it here in the US of A (sorry for the war everyone, we're not all brain dead over here...)

bo

Sleep Mode

[timtwobuck]

In my opinion, one of the most important aspects of a laptop is how well it enters and leaves sleep mode. Use an Apple laptop for an idea of how close to ideal you can get.

My IBM laptop, an older model, does not sleep well, the battery may last a little longer, but its not dead like an Apple laptop is. Perfect entering and exiting sleep mode, and Linux will get a toe-hold

Re:Linux, installation and ease of use

[NickFortune]

Installing Linux of a laptop is easy, especially with ditributions like Ubuntu. The fact that Linux comes preinstalled or not with the hardware doesn't matter IMHO.

Umm... you think so? Linux on the desktop is easy. Laptops can be challenging. Unless of course you mean just getting the binaries onto the disk. Even then its not always straightforward. I 'll always remember the fun I had once getting anaconda to work with some crappy SiS onbard graphics chip

Lapops use more custom components and working drivers are harder to come by. I'm writing this on a Tosh Satellite M30 which works perfectly - but then I did some careful reading ahead of my purchase. Even then, getting the wifi up and running was an adventure.

On the other hand, if it comes pre-installed, we should expect a decent default configuration. If not, it seems reasonable to complain to the manufacturer.

That said, I can see where you're coming from. Hey, I don't even duspute your conclusion.

Oh, the irony!

[heffel]

I just got an HP ZV6000 series laptop, featuring an AMD 64 processor. I got it with all the intention of installing Ubuntu for AMD 64 on it.

To say that the laptop is not linux friendly is an understatement. There are no drivers for the video card, you can get X.org sort of working with the vesa driver. The touchpad is partially supported, scroll bar doesn't work and you need to resort to tricks to make it work (remove and readd the psmouse module).

I installed the latest Java development kit for Linux AMD 64 on it, followed by Eclipse. Eclipse keeps crashing every few minutes.

Although my intention was to run Ubuntu on this laptop, I find myself booting to Windows XP home all the time just to get some work done.

Re:Oh, the irony!

[heffel]

Let me guess - ATI chipset?

You got it.

Another question - are you comparing with the 64bit version of XP? You're not are you?

Nope, just the crappy 32 bit version of XP home that came preinstalled with the laptop (and that I never intended to use).

Have you tried 32bit Linux on it? I would put money on it working a lot better.

I'm thinking about it and might give it a shot. It will probably help with Eclipse crashing, I somehow doubt the video card and touchpad will work to its full potential.

I mean for God's sake, what advantage are you expecting from 64bit support on a laptop?

Blazing fast compilation times? Who knows, I dropped my old laptop and that was the end of it (I was happily running Ubuntu 32 bit on it) and needed to get a new one, I got a good deal on this one.

Planning on installing more than 4GB of RAM are you?

Maybe someday I will.

Try comparing like for like.

I don't have access to a 64 bit version of windows, don't know how much one would set me back, I hope the fact that I'm using windows now is temporary, while linux distros get better support for the hardware on the laptop.

And seek help for your masochist tendencies.

I'm working on it.

Re:Oh, the irony!

[Arroc]

Kinda offtopic....
There's a known bug in hotspot's amd64 version that makes eclipse crash. Disabling the jit compiler worked for me, although with a performace hit. I've been waiting for Sun to fix it for a while already, it's pretty frustrating (so please vote for the bug).

Re:Accurate Article

[OptimizedPrime]

No, it actually refers to communist versus democratic countries. 1st world countries are either "within the sphere of US interest" or were democratic and somewhat allied in the cold war. Second World countries are communist. Third world countries are not in either sphere of influence. http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/third_world_ countries.htm

Linux as a Gaming Console

[stagmeister]

If linux had better graphics support, I think that linux would take off more - on both the laptop and desktop - as a development platform for console-style games. Think of it this way: If you are developing a game, you currently have to develop the game for windows, mac, linux, etc. if you want it to be on all platforms. However if you were to use a live linux distro as the base for a game, you could make it so that all you have to do is restart your computer, put the CD in your drive and the game runs automatically - no need to mess with installing it on the hard drive, no need to have to port the game, nothing! It will run on any processor that it is designed for that has a fast cd-rom drive (which is pretty much all computers these days), and with network support built into linux you could very easily set it up to connect to the internet and get to a gaming server for lan parties or just regular internet play.

Re:Why laptops?

[fwitness]

I disagree. I see more and more people opting for laptops with >=17" screens. These usually have dual drives and whatnot, and wind up being ridiculously powerful email readers. Ain't no way I'm calling a 12lb laptop with a 17" screen a notebook. It's barely a laptop and more like a lower-leg warmer.