Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Trans-Atlantic ID Card System

Posted by Zonk on from the hands-across-the-globe dept.

Th3P0stalDud3 writes "The Independent is reporting that the U.S. has asked the U.K. to use the same chips in their proposed identity cards as the ones in our proposed identity card. In effect, creating a trans-atlantic ID card system." From the article: "The aim of getting the same microchip is to ensure compatability in screening terrorist suspects. But it will also mean that information contained in the British cards can be accessed across the Atlantic."

33 of 428 comments (clear)

  1. Best laugh I've had all day... by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 5, Funny

    From TFA:

    US diplomatic sources stated later that Washington did not wish to interfere in the domestic affairs of other countries.


    You're kidding, right? Interfering is what we do .

    ^_^
    --
    ____

    ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

    1. Re:Best laugh I've had all day... by Heian-794 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The US isn't "interfering"; rather, two Orwellian governments are joining forces for a common objective.

      They seem to want to have a single world ID standard, which would be fine if there was one world state in which all human beings could travel freely. Unfortunately, it looks like people's citizenship will be restricted to one place, whereas all the governments of the world can get in cahoots to oppress people no matter where they go.

    2. Re:Best laugh I've had all day... by hotspotbloc · · Score: 4, Funny
      From TFA:
      US diplomatic sources stated later that Washington did not wish to interfere in the domestic affairs of other countries*.
      * Offer not valid in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, Syria, Lebanon or Canada.
      --
      "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
    3. Re:Best laugh I've had all day... by monkeydo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Your observation would be much more interesting, if there wasn't a corresponding benefit to go along with cost. As is pointed out in the article, the UK is one of several countries which's citizens are able to enter the US with no visa, or pre-entry screening. In order for this arrangement to be sustainable, the US and the UK must be able to verify that people who say they are citizens of one country really are who they say they are. It's like when the bouncer at the bar won't accept your out of state DL, because it doesn't look like the one is his book. Tennessee is under no obligation to make their DL's difficult to forge and easy to verify by Texas bouncers, but it is in their best interest to do so.

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    4. Re:Best laugh I've had all day... by ianpm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh don't worry, Britain (Specifically Blair) love the US making suggestions. We wouldn't be able to run our country without your help.

      No disrespect to actual Americans, but our Governments together are a bloody liability. They just agree blindly with what the other says and ignore what the voting public want. Its a huge back slaping excercise.

      Thank God both countries contain (some) sane people!

      On the subject of these cards, the expected cost is supposed to be about £80 (~$140) which is really not going to be popular with the public when it launches.

      I'm all for clever technology to prevent crime, but the ID card is not going to help at all.

    5. Re:Best laugh I've had all day... by PMuse · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You're kidding, right? Interfering is what we do.

      Interfering is what everyone does, if they can.

      TotalFinaElf and Lukoil in Iraq. USSR all over Eurasia. France in Indo-China Burma. The whole British empire, for that matter (that would be the guys who drew the lines on the map of Iraq). And on and on and on.

      The US is just as guilty as everyone else. The only difference is that they're the ones doing it now.

      --
      "We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
  2. Hey... by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wouldn't it be shorter to just say "Oceania ID Card" ?

    1. Re:Hey... by gowen · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Nonsense, that would suggest that Oceania's Ministry Of Truth was capable of adjusting history and presenting barefaced lies as fact, simply to fit their military ambitions.

      Inconceivable!

      (The only similarity is, when Shrub writes 2+2=5, he doesn't realise that's wrong, either).

      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    2. Re:Hey... by tourvil · · Score: 3, Funny
      Step 1. Post something referring to 1984.

      Step 2. ?

      Step 3. Karma!

      ;)

  3. Ter'ists are everywhere! by grub · · Score: 5, Insightful

    FTA: Mr Chertoff said yesterday that it was vital to seek compatibility, holding up the example of the "video war" of 25 years ago, when VHS and Betamax were in fierce competition to win the status of industry standard for video recording systems.

    If video compatibility is such a big issue why do they keep 2 main video standards (PAL/NTSC) and continue to put region encoding on DVDs? That lame "video war" comparison is just to appease the public into accepting a "New World Order" style of international identification. Once the US and Great Britain are locked in, it will be harder for other countries to resist if they want unencumbered travel for their citizens.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:Ter'ists are everywhere! by Anubis350 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      it will be harder for other countries to resist if they want unencumbered travel for their citizens.

      this raises interesting questions about those counties that are members of the british commonwealth. Would this mean that in order for those countries to maintain the ease of movement they have now with other members of the commonwealth they would have to submit to U.S. rules on the IDs?

      --
      "goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
  4. I hope I see some anti Bush comments by HMA2000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That would be awesome. I think it is important that we post unsubstantiated conspiracy theories about how this is just one more step in an inevitable march towards some dytopian future.

    1. Re:I hope I see some anti Bush comments by Mac+Degger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As a european, I can say this knowing exactly why this is a bad thing. Before 1940, we had no ID cards. After 1945, we tore up the ID cards across the continent. That should really tell you something.
      Invoke Godwin if you must, but Godwin never contemplated that at one point the comparison was actually warrented.

      And if you think it's just a reaction towards oppressors...we still have laws based on the Napoleonic code, we all have surnames and streetnames...so if something is good and makes sense, it gets used. If something is bad, we scrap it.

      --
      -- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
    2. Re:I hope I see some anti Bush comments by ashmedai · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I love how you're pointing troll fingers to cover up your own troll against a post with a perfectly valid point. I hope you're just joking.

      The United States has historically been involved in a number of atrocities that it doesn't much like to bee remembered for; like any large state it has its share of skeletons that it doesn't like to see make the history texts.

      Personally I think they make for interesting reading. When studied instead of buried they further emphasise the fact that freedom is maintained only through ongoing vigilance AGAINST OURSELVES AS WELL and not just external forces. Accusing one's own country of wrongdoing is never a good way to become popular, but it is absolutely necessary that this occur as often as the slightest suspicion arises and that we never rely on unquestioning acceptance of any leadership.

      It's fun to titter and giggle about conspiracy theories and the number of the beast and so forth. But the fact is that a more invasive identification system is highly useful to a police state and tends by its very existance to invite violations of basic human rights, and that it is usually of very little use in protecting anyone.

  5. Wow by gowen · · Score: 5, Funny
    But it will also mean that information contained in the British cards can be accessed across the Atlantic.
    Crikey. The range of RFID card-readers has gone up since I last looked into them...
    --
    Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
  6. Cost... by Manip · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Our government (UK) just spend x millions in creating this ID card scheme which is says we need... Now they are going to try and sell the public the concept of dumping all that R&D and use the USA standard... When that same government uses the cost so far as a reason why we can't just drop the entire project... Does anyone see a big hole in their logic?

    1984 was a good book, just not a great estimate, I think 2010 is a more realistic estimate...

  7. Elimination of the middle class by panxerox · · Score: 3, Informative

    The federal id system as proposed is a continuation of the process by which the government has been seeking to destroy the underground economy and stratify society to an even greater degree. The id system combined with the coming cashless society, educational divide, locking in of resources from the elimination of the inheritance tax can only end in a resumption of the feudal system or something very much like it. When our economy crashes (who thinks the current walmart economy can really last?) the elimination of the middle class will be complete. At this point the plan put in place by the patrician class will have come to fruition and their power will be unchallenged.

    --
    "It's so convenient to have a system where everyone is a criminal" - A. Hitler
  8. I particularly like this bit by jimicus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    FTFA: US diplomatic sources stated later that Washington did not wish to interfere in the domestic affairs of other countries.

    At the risk of being modded flamebait, when has that ever stopped the US before?

    1. Re:I particularly like this bit by Timesprout · · Score: 3, Insightful

      To be fair for a long time the US had little interest in what other countries were doing and prior to his inital election several commentators were concerned reagarding Bushs isolationist leanings.

      9/11 and the rise of the neo cons has prompted a complete turn around where we are all terrorists until proven otherwise and any action by the US is justified under 'security' regardless of international law and conventions.

      Its astonishing to contemplate the turn around from previous American apathy to a nation which now readily embarks on politically motivated military action.

      --
      Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
      What truth?
      There is no dupe
    2. Re:I particularly like this bit by glitchvern · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Its astonishing to contemplate the turn around from previous American apathy to a nation which now readily embarks on politically motivated military action.

      It really shouldn't be that astonishing. We have more than once in our history gone from strong feelings of isolationism to OMG there is a world out there and it affects us, let's kick its ass.
  9. Cue the Hand Wringing Masses!! by TheConfusedOne · · Score: 3, Insightful

    OMFG! An international standard for electronically readable ID cards? Big Brother is going to be the death of us all. Darn that Bush and his Consitution stomping cronies...

    So, how many of you travellers appreciate using your Visa/MC/AmEx and ATM cards when you're in another country?

    --
    --- I wish I could hear the soundtrack to my life. That way I'd know when to duck.
    1. Re:Cue the Hand Wringing Masses!! by acceleriter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How many of you travellers were forced to carry your Visa/MC/AmEx and ATM cards by your government?

      --

      CEE5210S The signal SIGHUP was received.

    2. Re:Cue the Hand Wringing Masses!! by RealAlaskan · · Score: 4, Interesting
      How many of you travellers were forced to carry your Visa/MC/AmEx and ATM cards by your government?

      More than you think, perhaps.

      We can't carry large amounts of cash overseas. It's illegal: if you don't declare it, then when they find it during the strip searches, you're a terrorist or drug dealer and they confiscate it. If you do declare it, you're a terrorist or drug dealer and they confiscate it before the strip search.

      Yes, I'm exaggerating, but not by as much as you think. It is illegal to take large amounts of cash out of the country without declaring it, and the government (usually local cops) will confiscate any large stashes of cash they find. They claim it's drug money, and charge the money with a crime. You have to prove that the money is innocent to get it back (scroll down to the bottom of that link).

      No, I am not making any of that up.

      So, you can carry travelers checks, you can carry your Visa, but you're taking a big risk if you carry cash. The really dangerous criminals are the ones in the uniforms.

      --
      See what I've been reading.
  10. Stop with the privacy violating bandaids! by garcia · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Mr Chertoff said yesterday that it was vital to seek compatibility, holding up the example of the "video war" of 25 years ago, when VHS and Betamax were in fierce competition to win the status of industry standard for video recording systems.

    "I certainly hope we have the same chip... It would be very bad if we all invested huge amounts of money in biometric systems and they didn't work with each other.Hopefully, we are not going to do VHS and Betamax with our chips. I was one of the ones who bought Betamax, and that's now in the garbage," he said.

    VHS and Betamax weren't intended to compromise our personal privacy. I just don't see how he would dare to compare these two completely unrelated things. Was it to try and make this sound more benign than it is?

    Mr Chertoff also proposed that British citizens wishing to visit the US should consider entering a "Trusted Traveller" scheme.

    I propose we stop assuming *everyone* is guilty because of what ~15 other people did. Oh wait, *everyone* hates freedom so we have to do this or we're UnAmerican, sorry, I forgot. Send me for reeducation please... I didn't learn it right the first time.

    Mr Chertoff said compatability and the checking system was intended purely to track down "terrorists and criminals" and the main aim was to provide a "fair and reasonable system".

    Yet it hinders and inconveniences everyone including citizens of the United States who are having their privacy violated.

    "When we screen based on names, we're screening on the most primitive and least technological basis of identification - it's the most susceptible to misspelling, or people changing their identity, or fraud," he said.

    I'm 100% certain that whatever method the US Government puts in place will be full of holes large enough to drive a truck through. It's not going to solve any of the problems that we have had in the past.

    1. Re:Stop with the privacy violating bandaids! by Scrameustache · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yet it hinders and inconveniences everyone including citizens of the United States who are having their privacy violated.

      My dad, Canadian, was crossing the border this winter to go camping, they stopped him and searched his camper, putting it through the fancy gamma scanner and everything.

      Seems reasonable, right?

      Except that while doing so they tried to arrest him, fingerprint him, and put him in a cell for the duration of the scan!

      Now, my dad isn't an idiot, he knows he's done nothing wrong, he knows the border-crossing drill, having done it many many times before, and he just said "stop reading me my rights!", refused to be arrested for crossing the Canada/US border completely legally, with all the paerwork properly done.
      They stopped their shenanigans, since they had NO REASON to arrest him, but I'm sure more gullible travelers are suckered into believing that this is right, else they'll be suspected of t3h 3v1l terrorism.

      Now, I'm sorry, but you guys are obviously devolving into a fucking police state! Thomas Jefferson must be spinning in his grave .

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

  11. Civil Disobedience Geek Style by Dasein · · Score: 4, Funny

    I suggest a little civil disobedience. Whenever asked for our ID we should repeat the phrase "Leeloo Dallas, multi-pass." in response to any further questions.

    --
    You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake -- but you could be if you got off your ass.
    1. Re:Civil Disobedience Geek Style by amliebsch · · Score: 4, Funny
      Whenever asked for our ID we should repeat the phrase "Leeloo Dallas, multi-pass."

      Too obscure. I suggest waving your hand in front of the asker's face and stating, "You don't need to see my identification. These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along."

      --
      If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
  12. I have a better idea... by keyrat+rafa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why don't we just affix small "I'm a terrorist" decals on the existing IDs of terrorists; that way, we'll always know who's who! By now anyone who is a known terrorist will not be using his real ID to go anywhere. Furthermore, no amount of biometric IDing is going to point out a terrorist. This is just something to better catalogue ordinary citizens with the guise of added security.

    1. Re:I have a better idea... by Random_Goblin · · Score: 4, Funny

      Now come on.. we brits have always known how to identify the bad guys.. why do you think all the bad guys wear black clothes in the James Bond Films??

      Now come on thats a gross simplification, if only it were that easy to tell who the bad guys are.

      shame on you.

      They might also be the ones with the bowler hat, tank full of sharks, fluffy white cat, or silver dentures.

  13. The UK's ID card scheme by Catullus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is yet another scary development in the long-running UK ID card saga. If any non-UK residents are interested, the current state of play is that legislation will probably soon be passed to force all UK residents to get biometric ID cards by 2008(ish).

    These cards will cost us all up to £93 ($150+) each, with profits from the scheme going to private companies. Everyone's personal details will be stored in one huge database, which can be accessed by a variety of government agencies. A recent trial of the biometric technology used in the cards showed that it was quite ineffective. The Government is nevertheless convincing the electorate that this is a good idea by playing on the fear of identity theft (which the cards won't help prevent) and fear of illegal immigrants.

    There's a good (as ever) article about ID cards at The Register.

    1. Re:The UK's ID card scheme by plopez · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And the databases will probably be badly normalised pieces of crap with redundent, dirty, incorrect and out-of-date information floating around. The applications built on these databases will be built by lowest bidder code monkeys who couldn't program their way out of a wet paper sack. As such they will not have a clue as to maintaining data integrity. Get ready for people being held without bail or legal representation on false positives.

      And the companies which build and maintain the technology will be large campaign contributors and/or junket providers to the decision makers. But that will just be a coincidence. Right?

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  14. Our Freedoms: by The+Angry+Mick · · Score: 4, Funny
    Hey man, we still have some good freedoms:
    • Our freedom to worship the one true God, as long as He doesn't remind us of that whole "be kind to others" socialist crap.
    • Our freedom to demand accountability from our elected political officials, provided, of course, such accountability never results in any embarassment or actual discipline to said elected officials.
    • Our freedom to march pridefully forward into our future role as China's economic bitch^H^H^H^H^Hpartner, secure in the knowloedge that we will always be able to buy whatever we want, as long as its at Wal-Mart.
    • Our freedom to enjoy quality sports and reality programming.

      There's probably some more, but I haven't had a chance to get the latest list from Fox . . . these things change so frequently these days . . .

    --

    I'm not tense. I'm just terribly, terribly, alert.

  15. UK government motivation? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Our government (UK) just spend x millions in creating this ID card scheme which is says we need...

    The great irony is that in a recent discussion on the BBC News site, approximately 80% of respondents to a poll said they didn't want the cards, compared to well under 20% who did. Now, on-line polls are hardly the most scientific study in the world -- there was no CowboyNeal option for a start -- but IME the ones on the BBC do tend to be fairly representative when compared to proper studies.

    One common objection cited in the discussion was the cost, and specifically who will wind up paying it, and how often UK governments give (mostly US-based) megacorps lucrative contracts that then strangely over-run and cost the taxpayer even more.

    Another common objection was the shifting goalposts in the benefits it's supposed to bring us: pre-election it was all about anti-terrorism, until various Spanish bombings despite ID cards were repeatedly mentioned. Then it was illegal immigration, until about half the world failing to stop illegal immigration despite requiring ID was repeatedly mentioned. Now it's identity theft, but people are pointing out that super-cards could actually make it easier for professional criminals to take an identity, not to mention the hazards of locking all the key information about a citizen into a single, centralised database.

    Perhaps the real reason is that the US wants it, and Blair is playing along? Not that that's ever happened before, you understand.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.