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Filling Up On Algae

grqb writes "News.com is reporting that GreenFuel Technologies, a Cambridge, Mass. based start-up, is using algae fed with sunlight, water and emissions from power plants to make biodiesel. The benefits are that heavy polluters can cut back on their emissions and at the same time make biodiesel. The algae consumes carbon dioxide as part of photosynthesis and they also break down nitrogen oxide, reducing the amount of polluting gas released. Once the algae are grown, the conversion to biodiesel is a relatively simple process. The company uses technology licensed from a NASA project. The only barrier now is to prove that it is economically viable."

19 of 273 comments (clear)

  1. isn't this a dead end? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Aren't we better looking for originally clean sources of energy? Instead industry always looks to try and make the dirty 'slightly less-dirty'.

  2. Really? by fenodyree · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The _only_? Oh, that should be simple, the *only* thing left eh?

    How many brilliant projects have failed to meet that last hurdle.

  3. It will be economically viable, one day by grqb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So, like the same old story goes for all alternative fuels and energy, we'll just have to wait for peak oil to make it economically viable.

  4. Is biodiesel the answer? by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When we start talking about how we ought to be focusing our energies (pun intended) on future sources of electricity and power, there seems to be two distinct tacks. The first is to rely on limited-pollution sources like Nuclear and Solar. The second is to build on existing combustion systems with Diesel and BioDiesel.

    I'm very unsure of the second choice's long-term viability as well as its efficacy in reducing pollution levels. After all, it is still burning the fuel and releasing those emissions back into the atmosphere. Forests act as carbon sinks. They absorb excess carbon from the atmosphere and release oxygen so we can breathe. However, when a tree dies, all that absorbed carbon is rereleased into the environment. Burning an oil derived from a carbon sink (like the algae described in the article) only takes excess pollutants from one place and puts it somewhere else. In this case it puts it directly back into the atmosphere as the result of combustion.

    The road ahead is long, but eventually we need to wean ourselves off of oil. As a pollutant it is second to none. As a political lever, it is a threat to the sovereignty of any nation that is dependent on its import. As a resource, it is limited and will one day run to levels insufficient to support our current usage.

    BTW, the text captchas are getting harder and harder to read

    1. Re:Is biodiesel the answer? by bear_phillips · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But, in saying this, growing crops for fuel is just not sustainable, for one thing it requires a lot of land, for another it sucks up all of the soil nutrients and so you can't continue to grow crops in the same location indefinitely.

      But, in saying this, growing crops for FOOD is just not sustainable, for one thing it requires a lot of land, for another it sucks up all of the soil nutrients and so you can't continue to grow crops in the same location indefinitely.

      --
      http://www.windmeadow.com/
    2. Re:Is biodiesel the answer? by Goonie · · Score: 1, Insightful
      I've got no problem with biodiesel per se; I have a problem with greenies who say "biodiesel is the answer" when some very basic calculation suggests that biodiesel from conventional crops can only supply a very small part of our energy needs. So, in the greater scheme of things, it is of marginal relevance.

      In the greenhouse debate, there's far too much attention paid to transport fuel use and too little to the static energy sector. The main game is going to be shutting down today's coal-fired power plants; what we replace them with is the big question.

      --

      Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
      --Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
  5. Re:Just like solar? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Biodiesel is much more significant than solar. With the energy density similar to normal diesel fuel, you can run a car with it, vice solar (except some very unrealistic designs). If biodiesel is able to compete with normal diesel fuel, the entire political landscape of the world will change. The industrialized countries will no longer need to help Saudi princes build palaces. The money that is being exported will instead stay in the country boosting the economy. This will fuel an unprecedented period of economic growth.

    As a side benefit, it releases no net CO2 (burning - photosynthesis = 0). Just pray that the cost of oil continues to rise. At roughly $3.50 per gallon diesel, biodiesel will be more economical. Economies of scale will take over and old-diesel will be history.

  6. Algae? It makes clouds, too. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Submitting this not to be offtopic but to try and add to this algae->biofuel info.

    There was a discovery a while back that found that algae can lead to the formation of clouds.
    http://www.nau.edu/~soc-p/ecrc/cloud%20formation.h tml

    The reason I bring this up is because of the balance of the ecosystem thing. If we add new and many organisms to the mix -- ones which already have an important purpose--for the sole purpose of destroying them are we potentially throwing the environment out of whack? Unintended consequences and all...

  7. In the End by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    > The only barrier now is to prove that it is economically viable

    In the end, this is all that really matters. BioDiesel always has and always will be a net energy loser. Meaning it takes more energy to produce it, then it consumes

  8. Re:Neat but who cares if it won't make a dent... by sirra462 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Absolutely, energy diversity should be the future. It would be a shame to get away from the impending oil crisis by relying on a resource that will also deplete. I would like to see an assortment of energy using vehicles in the world: electric, hydrogen, petroleum-based, solar?. Energy should be approached in the same way that we approach our finances - with conservation and diversity.

  9. Re:That's nice but... by Spoing · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Your math comes out to about 116 truckloads per day per square mile. Impressive. You could power an entire US state with one square mile. Easy.

    Doesn't that make you want to check the calculations?

    --
    A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
  10. Benefit by trime · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Did anyone else read
    The benefits are that heavy polluters can cut back on their emissions and at the same time make biodiesel
    as
    Now you can produce even more industrial waste, and it might be economically to your advantage to do so?

    Perhaps I'm being too cynical... it seems like a great idea, but will it just be a justification for causing more environmental havoc if it is economically viable?

  11. This is SO OLD! by chessie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    there is nothing new here....

    josh tickell (don;t laugh, it's his real name)talked about this in his book From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank. thats 8 years ago!
    he drove around in a painted mini-winnebago promoting bio/veggie burning waste oil for fuel.

    the notion is that algea are about 90% water, and on the order of 5% oils. growing the algea on large shallow ponds is cheap and easy. reduction of the algea into oils is pretty easy with centrfuges. then making it into bio while simple, is very energy intensive, heat it up to react, use nasty chemicals made with lots of energy etc.

    the end result was it was very energy intensive to make bioD, to make it economically viable. was, still is.

    you are best off reading more at biodieselamerica.org

    before you start wining about diesel 'soot,' soot is caused by excessive SULPHER in the fuel. bioD has no sulpher, so huge reductions in emissions. USLD will allegedly be here in a couple of years.

    some of us ARE getting 45+ mpg in regular non-hybrid cars using regular diesel, bio, WVO/SVO plant oils. 25+ in 3/4 p/u. what do you drive? are you still driving mommy's SUV?

    figures how an out of work rocket scientist instead of a truely green pioneer gets the press and the seed money.

    that's america for you.

  12. Re:Just like solar? by ozmanjusri · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Biodiesel is much more significant than solar.

    Biodiesel is solar. It uses solar energy to convert CO2 and water into vegetable oils. It requires sunlight just like photovoltaic solar cells. Its key advantage over photovoltaics and batteries is that it stores the energy in a way which will work with our existing infrastructure (internal combustion engines).

    --
    "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
  13. Re:Just like solar? by kazem · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You may not believe me or realize it, but aside from weapons, the Saudis spend most of their money on blue chip stocks, not palaces. Sure, they build palaces for themselves, but most of their oil money goes towards buying stock in IBM, MS, GE, and other huge companies.

    They know that oil won't last forever, so they're investing in their own futures with our companies and our successful economy. It's all one party, which is why they're our economic partners.

  14. Re:Tsk! Tsk! by shawb · · Score: 2, Insightful

    First off, diatoms are a type of algae. I believe that they are alot slower growing and have more specific environmental needs than other algae, in particular green algaes. One of the reasons that they would be so slow growing is the frustule (glass shell) that you mentioned. Making the frustule is very energy intensive, and causes a somwhat slower reproduction rate. Not to mention that as diatomaceous earth is basically powdered glass, it is quite abrasive and would lead to much higer maintenance costs.

    My guess is that this method is used on land because that's where you find the power plant exhaust that you feed into the system. The whole point of this is that they are taking harmful waste products (CO2 and Nitrous compounds in smokestacks which purportedly lead to global warming and acid rain) and breaking them down. The biodiesel is just a happy side benefit that makes the whole project worthwhile. Being environmentally friendly isn't always bad for business.

    I've always thought a method like this would be useful in treating sewage wastewater. I bet you could get enough energy out of this to take the water treatment plant off the electrical grid (Okay, this was just a wild guess with no actual numbers for reference, but seems reasonable.) My thoughts were to directly take energy from bacterial digestion of the waste products, but making biodiesel would help alleviate the need for petroleum in transportation.

    Hmm... but then again I question what the actual environmental gain would be on this. Any pollutants eaten up to make the biodiesel would have to be chemically removed from the stream (probably prohibitively expensive) otherwise they'll just come out of the tailpipe of the bus or whatever the diesel is powering. Might be more efficient to just use the fossil fuels to power the bus and use solar energy to power the electric grid. Otherwise you would be able to use the diesel created through this to run the powerplant, and that just sounds like a violation of some of the laws of thermodynamics to me.

    --
    I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
  15. it still emits CO2 by nietsch · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It may be greener than follis fuel, but unless they start to feed non-fossil fuels to the powerplants that these algae plants get their CO2 from, if , you burn this biodiesel, you are still contributing to the greenhouse effect. The only thing that has changed is that the CO2 has delivered twice the amount of energy.
    So this is not an end-all solution to global warming, it only can halve the CO2 emissions, and we probably will need more.

    --
    This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
  16. Re:Just like solar? by saforrest · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As a side benefit, it releases no net CO2 (burning - photosynthesis = 0).

    No net CO2, but the buck has to stop somewhere.

    If Ye Olde Polluting Company (YOPC) decides to use their extra carbon emissions to make biodiesel when they would normally have been forced to cut carbon emissions altogether because of environmental laws, then some CO2 has still been added to the system. If YOPC decides to build a new factory when it wouldn't have done so otherwise because of the cost savings and lack of environmental issues which biodiesel enables, then some CO2 has still been added to the system.

    Then again, what kind of crazy world am I talking about, where polluting companies are seriously deterred by environmental laws?

  17. Reality crashes the party by Engineer-Poet · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The whole point of this is that they are taking harmful waste products (CO2 and Nitrous compounds in smokestacks which purportedly lead to global warming and acid rain) and breaking them down. The biodiesel is just a happy side benefit that makes the whole project worthwhile. Being environmentally friendly isn't always bad for business.
    Except that this process is not "environmentally friendly". Even if it could consume the entire exhaust of a coal-fired powerplant, it is still an open-cycle system running on fossil fuel. Yes, the carbon output would leave the plant as biodiesel rather than carbon dioxide; it would still wind up in the atmosphere a short time later. Displacing the petroleum that would otherwise be used is a good thing, but it doesn't change the underlying truth.
    Might be more efficient to just use the fossil fuels to power the bus and use solar energy to power the electric grid.
    The bus makes regular stops. Why not put overhead contacts at those stops and let the bus recharge batteries or spin up a flywheel? For the distance that can't be covered on stored electricity, use biodiesel grown on atmospheric carbon.
    Otherwise you would be able to use the diesel created through this to run the powerplant, and that just sounds like a violation of some of the laws of thermodynamics to me.
    No it's not a 2nd Law violation (solar energy in, most of it comes out as waste heat, entropy goes up as physics demands). Despite that, your second thoughts are much better than your first ones.