Slashdot Mirror
Internships for Talented High School Students?
xeon4life asks: "I'm an Austin, Texas area high school senior with a slight dilemma: I need a job, I don't want what's offered at my age, and internships are not quite open for kids like me. I've recently been reading essays by Paul Graham about creating your own startup and have been motivated enough to convince two of my good friends to go into business with me later, during college. Thus, an internship at this point would be the ideal solution for me now, but nobody is willing to take me as an intern because I'm still in high school. What am I to do?"
"People have suggested that I just do what every other good American high school citizen does and take a mediocre job. The problem is, I feel it would be a waste of my talents right now to be stuck folding shirts at the local mall or flipping cheeseburgers when I could be helping develop a cutting-edge game, the next-generation compiler, or even the Linux kernel as an intern. I have a higher than most college students' understanding of concepts, and some real programming experience in languages like assembly and C/C++, but that isn't going to amount to anything if I can never find an interviewer who will at least listen to me. I'd appreciate any input the Slashdot readership can give me."
If you're so smart, figure it out yourself.
So you really want an internship?
"and internships are not quite open for kids"
awww but I really wanna!
Welcome ot the real world!
Now go do something usefull on your own. Contribute to an open source project if your too high up to flip burgers. Thats the best your gonna get unless you can modivate someone who is actually out of highschool.
Best bet is you get a job as a mail clerk, I dont know if temp agencies will touch you but part time is available with that stuff. At least with that you'll get a good idea of what work will be like.
Internships don't pay that much, and apparently either you or your two friends are incredibly rich anyway. So forget the internship, and spend your time and talent working on an open source project or two. If it's your friends that are rich and not you, convince them to set up the company now and hire you as an intern for a measly salary.
One of the hardest things to figure out when you are starting something new is how to eat while you are still making the new project work. Since you presumably still live at home, that's not a problem for you. And since you are still in high school, it's not a point of embarassment to be living with your parents.
That means that you can work for cheap, REAL cheap, gaining experience that will help you out in the future. So, get out there and help out as many people as you can with your skills, and to hell with a "regular" internship for now. If you do a good job, they will recommend you to others.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
Customers are the most discerning employers. Remember, in the end, it's the customer that pays you. Your boss is simply redistributing that revenue amongst its employees (minus expenses and reinvestment).
But again, your customer just cares about the product. They don't care if it was made by a team of Nobel prize winners, a bunch of high school kids, or a golden retriever.
Business isn't rocket science. If you're of legal age in which you could form an LLC, do it. Maybe take a mediocre side job to cover your expenses, but aside from that, do as the man says and strike it out on your own. You're in high school, so there's no risk. You're not mortgaging your future, have financial liabilites, dependents to support. Plus you have an entire summer to do what you want.
So do what you want and get started.
You can gain other important skills by other ordinary high-school jobs. You don't have to work at a burger joint, there's libraries, and even good entry level jobs at factories. Working third shift at a factory can be loads of fun (kinda dark and mysterious).
Also, commitments among friends in high school often end at graduation. Life gets more complex, and you can find no fault in your friends if they get a significant other or decide to change their focus in education (what if they get into a different college from you).
Don't grow up too fast. You'll feel like you're 65 and ready to retire by the time you're 25, so be careful.
If you're as technically competent as you're making yourself out to be, I bet you get requests to "make the Internet work" and whatnot all the time.
My advice? Charge those people for tech support. Even if you charge half of what the cheapest shop in town charges, you'll be making mad bank, and have uber-happy customers.
At least, that's what I did before I got my internship.
Which I didn't get until my junior year of college after four years of applying, even though I was qualified for all of those four years. The truth of the matter is that it's just damned hard to get an internship as a high school student.
In summary: Charge for tech support, make mad bank, and hold off on the internship until you're an undergrad.
OMG! Wau!
Why is it that 90% of people responding to Ask Slashdot posts just slam the poster instead of providing any useful info? I was in Austin recently, and I did see some people that weren't wearing ten-gallon hats and spurs. Anyway, for the OP:
Are you sure that there are no suitable internships for you? I interned once a week during high school for three years. This was a program my school had in place for all students grades 10-12, but I didn't like any of the internships they already had to offer, so I sent a letter to a local government research organization, and they found me a spot. I would suggest treating this like a job hunt -- find places you'd like to intern and send letters asking if they've got anything. Also, assuming you're starting college next year, you may want to look into co-ops; most colleges have such programs as a way to allow students to gain experience before graduation.
Seriously, just go work at McDonalds or whatever. Many talented geeks suffer later in life because they don't build their interpersonal skills. Spend the summer doing something you aren't automatically good at - for me, that's anything involving actual physical work - with people you wouldn't otherwise interact with.
I promise you you'll gain enormously from this experience; first of all you'll come to respect the dignity of the average working joe, and secondly you'll get better at forming good relationships with the non-geeks of the world. This is a useful talent. They outnumber us.
If you're as smart and as driven as you sound, that won't wear off over the summer. I promise you the human skills you'll get from working a McJob for a while are a real benefit. And that won't hurt you when you come to apply for those internships in a few year's time.
When I was in high school I somehow avoided real jobs and got into early multimedia-type projects (mostly Hypercard... not sure how anyone made money doing that, but hey). I was actually more interested in programming and other hackery, but couldn't get a job doing that.
Eventually I got to work in video editing as people starting bringing computers into that realm, where I had the fantastic job of post-processing TV shows frame-by-frame to see if it was possible. The most computer-intensive work I did was writing scripts to rename large directories of files so they'd import into the video printer properly. Ugh.
Point being: you'll never get to do what you really want to do, but what you don't necessarily want to could be far more exciting than you realize. Get paid $10/hour doing low-level grunt work, just so long as you're NEAR a computer, you'll get bloody invaluable experience in real-world work.
I never did learn to be a real programmer, but I learned that I much prefer doing a mix of entertainment and coding anyway. Don't close any doors at this stage.
The world's only surviving livewriter.
almost all of the community colleges in my area (maricopa county, az) allow high school students (at least seniors) to sign up and take classes. i was taking classes through one as a high school junior. see if you can do that. boom, now you're in college
... imo, his 'success' has gone to his head and he now lives in a fantasy world. before i started working with computers, i painted houses and washed cars. both of those jobs taught me valuable life and career lessons a computer-related internship never would. plus, jobs like that are fun. you're still young ... have some fun before it's too late
as for joel's "advice"
vodka, straight up, thank you!
I'd say, suck it up and get a real job. That's what being a teenager is about. I worked flipping burgers for a few weeks and then stocking shelves at a Cub Foods all night for a few weeks. Even though it wasn't very long, the hard labor, long hours, terrible bosses and coworkers, low-pay and generally hellish environment is something I'm glad I went through. In fact, I even pumped gas for three days.
Of course, I was 16 at the time, but a few years later, I had a software career making a _lot_ of money. And knowing exactly what those kind of jobs are like makes me glad I have the job I do today. Even when work sucks the most, I can stop myself and appreciate the fact that I'm not digging ditches in the blazing sun for $12/hr or flipping burgers or stacking 50lb bags of dog food for $8/hr.
Worry about your internship when you're in the last half of college. Don't worry about it in highschool. Besides, you're not only competing with seasoned professionals who need real jobs, but college people who need internships over the summer. You're low-man on the totem-pole.
And if you really want to do something, go donate your time and services at a local charity that could make use of your technical skills. That will definitely look good on your college application and future resumes. Besides, you'll feel a lot better doing something you love and just getting some kharma for it than you will busting your ass at Intel or IBM for free.
If you are really that talented you should have no problem doing this. This has several advantages over a real internship. For instance, most interns don't hack any kernels or optimize any compilers. With this though you've got some leeway and choice.
Why not fork?
First, I must apologize for the reception you've received to your question thus far. The ONE THING someone your age needs above all else is encouragement, which is something sorely lacking in most of the answers I've read. The fact that you stated your experience isn't bragging; you're trying to make it clear what direction you want to go in. I'm appalled at some of the things that have been said to someone who is actually going out and doing something with their life. (Jealousy that they did not, perhaps?) However... the silver lining is that such a response *will* help prepare you for the real world, which is unfortunately much like this at times. Don't let it discourage you; keep going anyway, and with just a little luck, you WILL succeed. Taking moronic insults and banter like this personally is pointless and a waste of time. File it away in the "This person is unreasonable and will waste my time" folder, and keep moving.
I can tell you from direct experience that there are MANY opportunities available to someone your age. I'm not familiar with the state of things in Texas, but everywhere I've tried (California, Florida, New York), there are always many people out there who see something of value in a kid with drive, and technical interest/ability. What I'm about to tell you about will work for getting you either a job or an internship (I've gotten many of both this way), though it may take a little tweaking based on your area and specific use. What it really boils down to is drive and determination, but some good planning beforehand can greatly reduce the amount of wasted time.
First, make a list of all of the different types of things you can think of that you might want to do, later in life. Obviously, you're going to want to make sure your internship matches your potential career(s), so this first step is important.
Next, come up with a list of ANY company in your area you can think of that might offer jobs in this same field. The fact that you're currently focussing on getting an internship instead of a job is irrelevant right now; a good internship requires the job that will support it to exist.
Now pull out a pencil, your computer, or whatever your favorite writing tool is and write yourself a script. Short, to the point, but cheerful and polite are the rules, here. "Hi, my name is Bob Smith, and I'm interested in interning/working for your company. May I speak with your hiring manager/HR department to discuss this?" Etc. Try it out on your parents, teachers, etc. Ask them to find ways to answer "No" and hang up on you, then eliminate those questions from your script. Remember that your script is just your plan, and that it will need to be flexible. You know, strategy vs. tactics. Testing it out on people will help show you which parts will likely progress normally, and which can go in any direction. Try to avoid questions that *can* be answered with a "No": "Hi, my name is Bob Smith, and I'm very interesting in interning in your department. I'd love to come in and chat with you about the possibility. I'm free this Thursday and Friday, anytime after 3:30 pm. When is best for you?" See? No way to say "No" without changing the conversation around.
Once you've got something that will allow you to get what you want without being too forceful, start calling up the companies on your list. It's fine to read from the script, though by now you'll probably have it memorized more than you'd ever want to anyway. Call, call, and call some more. If you get a nibble, don't go nuts and scare them off, but definitely show interest and drive. Remember, in their eyes, you're just an irresponsible kid. There's plenty of reasons NOT to hire you or take you on as an intern, so show them why they should. Don't be pushy, but show that you're not a flake, and that you have what it takes. If you get something good, congratulations! If not, don't give up. This WILL require many calls just to get the hang of it, and many more to be successful. Call the least
If making money is not a necessity. Approach what you consider the "ideal" successful business (the one that would look good on your resume) in your area and offer to work for free if necessary. You might be suprised that after a while they might offer you employment, especially if you treat it like a real job despite the lack of pay. As in no showing up just when you feel like it or generally making a goof of yourself.
Regardless of the outcome, you will get to "hang around" and pick up valuable real world business knowledge. From the businesses perspective, it is a relatively low risk option to see if you are worth their time.
Logic is not Divine.
Some schools have a co-op program where you take classes one semester and work the next.
But, if you believe higher education really isn't in your best interest: I would say to get a day job as the others say (not too much, unless you have the kind of parents who will make you support yourself...), and to develop in some of your free time. If you are as skilled as you say you are, surely there is something that you can work on, some underdeveloped FOSS project somewhere that you can be of use on, or if you dare, start your own.
Now, here's the important part: document what you do. Again, if you say you can handle it, you should keep a list of features you implement, keep your patches, generally be able to demonstrate to an employer that you have a substantial understanding of what needs to be done to design and carry out a project.
(Disclaimer: I am taking the completely opposite road for myself. It is possible I am speaking out of my ass.)
I'm in college and I can't get a job that respects my intellect, either. During the summer I do construction.
I'm no good at making stuff at all. I come up with ideas that are brilliant but my boss is too scatter brained to implement them even though they'd save him lots of money.
You know what? I get paid $7.50 an hour to get the same job as the highschool dropouts I work with. That's more than any of my friends get paid. You know what else? The reason you get paid to do something is because it sucks so bad that almost nobody is willing to do it for free.
More than likely you'll file them under "co-worker", "superior", "love interest", "employer", "friend", "mentor", ...
It's unwise to disregard what a person says just because it's negative. It's a good healthy dose of real life. Rejection is a part of it.
Furthermore; it's a horrible folley to scoff "jealousy" at others who don't share your life's goals or naivette.
Good post, I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, and it's good to see some positive feedback but I hope the submitter realizes that the world is a harsh place that does judge its inhabitants based on arbitrary factors rather than pure skills and abilities.
BD Phone Home!
Shameless plug. Like you weren't expecting it.
nunchuck skills
bowhunting skills
computer hacking skills
Make it 2007 -- that is, if he is as talented as he claims he is. But, seeing what he himself says about his skills, i highly doubt it:
The problem is, I feel it would be a waste of my talents right now to be stuck folding shirts at the local mall or flipping cheeseburgers when I could be helping develop a cutting-edge game, the next-generation compiler, or even the Linux kernel as an intern. I have a higher than most college students' understanding of concepts, and some real programming experience in languages like assembly and C/C++
I'm sorry, but you're not qualified for an internship, as a) you're way up in the clouds ("helping develop a cutting-edge game"? Get real), b)you lack the concept of what a real world programming job is, and c) you probably lack the experience ("some real programming experience" doesn't really say much about your skills). Get your feet back on the ground, and then maybe someone will hire you. Otherwise, you will end up wasting your talents on nothing.
Man is a slave because freedom is difficult, whereas slavery is easy.