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Intel Claims No DRM
pallmall1 writes "The Inquirer has an official statement from Intel claiming the Computerworld Today Australia story from May 27th was incorrect, and the Pentium D and the 945 chipsets do not have unannounced DRM technology embedded in them. The statement says Intel products support or will support several copy protection schemes such as Macrovision, DTCP-IP, COPP, HDCP, CGMS-A, and others. The statement concludes: 'While Intel continues to work with the industry to support other content protection technologies, we have not added any unannounced DRM technologies in either the Pentium D processor or the Intel 945 Express Chipset family.' The Intel Chip with DRM story has been previously reported on Slashdot. Update: 06/05 20:12 GMT by Z : Fixed the Macrovision link.
If it's unannounced, I don't expect them to admit to it even if it is really there. The ID on the Pentium 3 was still there as well, even though they claimed to have disabled it after the uproar.
"[Intel said the] Pentium D and the 945 chipsets do not have unannounced DRM technology embedded in them"
Is this like one of those "This statement is false" paradoxes?
"It's a trap!"
They've mentioned TCPA-style hardware DRM before; it's just been a while. So, for that matter, have AMD and Via, so running to them won't help much.
Y'know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water.
DRM = DRM. whether announced or unannounced. You added support for DRM to your hardware. That means I can't buy Intel gear anymore. End of story.
You can wrap it in acronyms. You can attempt to misdirect, obfuscate, or otherwise try to hide the fact that Intel sold out to corporate interests.
No DRM. Not on my computer. Not now. Not ever.
Now that they've said it isn't in there, if it turns out later that they were lying and it is in there, isn't that class-action-lawsuit worthy material?
Because I for one consider a chip which purposefully takes control of my computer away from me and gives it to someone else without my authorization to be broken.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
This is like the question "Do you still beat your wife?"
For god's sake. Intel's been decent overall, when did it become their job to discount every allegation just to make some folks happy?
OK, so they've actually announced all the DRM as "features". Doesn't mean anybody realized the damage that those features they could do, except the folks on the Dark Side.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Macrovision has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with macromedia.
The Real Macrovision was developed by a company called Macrovision and is used to prevent copying of VHS and DVD video streams with data that interrupts the picture.
mattdev@server$ touch
cannot touch `/dev/genitals': Permission denied
Doesn't having DRM on board just mean that the user can successfully play DRM'ed IP they purchase? Is there anything in this DRM scheme that prevents construction of arbitrary device drivers that divert the un-DRM'ed content on it's way to the speakers/screen?
So, for that matter, have AMD and Via, so running to them won't help much.
:-)
AMD is supposedly making their hardware DRM entirely optional, though.
Also, I think everybody should look at this roadmap. If you look at the chips for the upcoming socket M2, and also the X2 processors that will be shipping in the coming weeks, they are all supposed to have the Presidio "security technology." Isn't that a euphamism for the same thing we're accusing Intel of putting in their chips? I would like it if somebody would get to the bottom of this.
And also prevents good honest people from playing their perfectly legal, original media on an operating system of their choice. Do you think the corps will give Linux developers, for instance, access to DRM specs and code that will facilitate communication with media drives? I don't think so.
Even if their denial of including hidden DRM tech is completely true, it justifies the original story, and the community reaction against the idea which clearly produced this denial. Preemptive criticism of such tech from early adopters and qualified critics is valuable. Once the DRM is in the chips, it's much more costly to get it out. And some critics will be quiet, accepting the fait accompli as less likely to be reversed than other priorities with less committed vendor investment.
A major problem with the press these days is their total disinterest in covering a "developing story" of a threat, until it has already caused irreparable damage. While threateners are much better at keeping threats secret until they do that damage. Even worse, many of the threats come from preemptive actions that do much damage, before the press reports on the threat itself, or even the preemption, until it's too late.
Julian Bajkowski, in his CTA article took a vague Intel announcement that new chipsets "support" Microsoft DRM to mean that DRM itself is embedded in the chipsets. Since MS DRM requires all kinds of tech in the chips to support its features that are much more general purpose than just DRM (even simple 8086 memory access and register logic "supports DRM"), that leap is unsubstantiated speculation, though possible. So Bajkowski/CTA presented the analysis unprofessionally - though the analysis itself is worthwhile to discuss.
The modern press is afflicted with a major problem: its staff is so automated, so powerful in research, publishing, and fraternal immediate communication, that journalistic professionalism is no longer necessary to get one's content consumed. The lowered barrier to entry fills the field with unskilled workers; their essential reporting less useful. Because the bad logic undermines credibility, while the slick stationery, flashy handwriting, and express delivery market the message more widely than ever.
I would point out the broad applicability of this criticism to most modern journalism, well beyond chip technology, but that scope seems obvious. Tech is a business long accustomed to PR masquerading as journalism, with informed professionals consuming such journalism with skepticism, cross referencing, and a twitchy BS detector. Beyond the tech beat, most news consumers just accept the journalism at face value. And base much more important decisions on it than which CPU to buy.
--
make install -not war
So they're not denying that DRM exists in Intel stuff. They're just saying that DRM is not there on Pentium D and the 945 chipset. Other Intel stuff have all that crap they listed - Macrovision, DTCP-IP, COPP, HDCP, CGMS-A, and "others".
So there is an uproar from various web sites, people, etc that there is DRM. Intel has to scramble and respond that there is not. Doesn't this give anyone in the business a SMALL CLUE that their customers actually *do not* want DRM?
It's a shame that the market is not as strong as it should be in real capitalism to let people and their pocketbooks speak loudly. People will buy the next Intel chip that has DRM in it because Microsoft says to put it in.
--- witty signature
This entire slashdot news post is misleading.
Intel's press release is based on the fact on that Computerworld's article claims that Intel is adding unnounced DRM features to their new line of Pentiums. If anyone actually read the article, it does not say ANYWHERE anything about unannounced DRM features. In fact, I would say that the Computerworld article and the Intel press release are saying basically the same thing, with their respective biases present. Honestly, the only thing newsworthy here is that Intel announced the specific DRM implementations in their chipsets.
Lastly, an opinion... DRM is not something I really would like to see implemented on the CPU-level. I don't think "THE MAN" should be controlling what I can or can't do with media that exists on my computer.
Karma police, arrest this man, he talks in maths....
Nor anyone else's, if you want to be consistant..
Its all tainted at this point, unless you make your own.
And if you are using anything that is fairly new, I bet you have some components of DRM that you ( or the rest of us consumers ) dont even realize are there.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
'Macrovision, DTCP-IP, COPP, HDCP, CGMS-A'
These are all DRM technologies. The fact that they are not in themselves a complete DRM solution does not mean they are not DRM technologies: they are significant and have an effect on consumers' digital freedom when combined with other technologies.
This is a complete non-statement. Hardware DRM was always intended to be optional. PCs are backwards-compatible, so you always can run an OS that knows nothing about DRM chips.
The problem only comes when you are required to (or want to) use an application that uses Hardware DRM, in which case you will need to turn it on.
Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
There is no DRM anywhere in our hardware! We do not tolerate any abuse of fair use, and those who do will be encouraged to throw themselves from the roof of our corporate headquarters.
</iraqi information minister>
It sounds like Intel may have learned a little something after the fiasco with the unique ID embedded on the chips. AMD took advantage of that gaffe rather quickly, and I believe that was one of the things that helped AMD with mindshare in the geek community. AMD execs would love to see Intel stumble with some braindead DRM in the chip, all they'd have to do is highlight their non-DRM nature and watch their sales increase.
The more you know, the less you understand.
AMD is supposedly making their hardware DRM entirely optional
That story is two and a half years old. I can clarify the actual situation and industry planned future.
When Longhorn comes out in about a year it will only fully function on a Trusted Compliant computer. It will run with a reduced graphics interface and various other portions of the system will not work at all on non-Trusted hardware or if you decline to "opt-in" (if you leave the Trust chip off).
No PC hardware maker can realistically survive selling hardware that is not compatible with the latest version of Windows. No one would buy it, and anyone who does will return it when Windows refuses to run properly. If you ask Microsoft about the problem they will blame it on the hardware manufacture for making "incompatible" hardware.
AMD has announced a project to make Trusted Computing Group compliant chips, exactly the same specifications as Intel is implementing. In fact Intel is shipping an "inactive" version of it already inside the Prescott CPUs and probably others. Exactly the same specification Transmeta is already shipping inside some of their CPUs.
The specifcation requires that the chip be inactive when you buy the computer. Naturally the first thing Windows will do on startup is ask to activate it.
If you buy a coputer without it, or you refuse to turn it on, you will be increasingly screwed. As I said Windows will only run in a brain damaged mode. You will be unable to install any software that makes use of the Trust system. Applications, games, all sorts of stuff will require a Trusted install. Without the Trust system you cannot install, register, activate, and *DECRYPT* the software at all. New file types will be unreadable if you do not "opt-in". You will be increasingly locked out of websites if you do not "opt-in".
And best of all the Trusted Computing has announced a specification called Trusted Network Connect (TNC). Microsoft has issued a press release that they are implementing TNC, but they call it SAP Secure Access Protection. What does this system do? A network access point uses it. When you request a 'net connection, it first checks if you have a Trust chip. If you do, it then checks that you are running an approved and compliant operating system then checks that you are running all mandatory and compliant software. If you are not you get "quarantined", denied internet access. If you do not "opt-in" to the trust system and run mandatory and approved software then you are denied internet access.
It's all documented right on the Trusted Computing Group website. Of course THEY give it a positive spin. The system can ensure you are not infected by a virus or trojan and it can ensure you are running a mandatory and approved firewall. This way the network can protect itself against you being infected and spreading viruses and worms on their network.
Obviously ISP's can't start making this mandatory right now. The Trust system doesn't really begin to roll out until the Longhorn release next summer. It would then take another few years for the majority of PCs to be replaced. PCs get replaced rather quickly through the normal obselecence and upgrade cycle. You can potentially see mandatory Trust compliance for internet access somewhere between 2010 and 2015.
Oh, by the way... the President's Cyber Security Advisor gave a speech at the Washington DC Global Tech summit calling on ISPs to plan on making exactly this sort of system a mandatory part of their Terms of Service for internet access. There's a transcript of the speech on the BSA website. He calls for ISPs to "Secure the National Information Infrastructure" against "Terrorist Attack".
Oh, and have you noticed the stories lately about taking internet government out from under United States Government control? ICANN and the other organisations? Obviously the world will not allow the United States to impose this sort of system on them. Instead Internet Governance will be turned over to UN groups. T
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
You can wrap it in acronyms. You can attempt to misdirect, obfuscate, or otherwise try to hide the fact that Intel sold out to corporate interests.
No DRM. Not on my computer. Not now. Not ever. Yeah, wait til you have a choice.
If Intel, AMD, and Via all follow suit, then you will be doing your computing on a wooden instrument moving plastic beads around.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
Thats the scariest thing Ive ever heard. Lucikly nobody will stand for it :)
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
Mr. Stallman's science fiction short story isn't the only depiction of what could happen in a full "Trusted" Computing paradigm. I linked to it as an accessible description of the consequences of Treacherous Computing. Here are some more factual descriptions: #1 #2 #3. Please read them and compare TCG's platform as described to what could enable the situation depicted in the story.
All the planning charts and digital rights management orders have been on display at your local planning department in Alpha Centuri for 50 of your Earth years, so you've had plenty of time to lodge any formal complains and it's far too late to making a fuss about it now!
The problem only comes when you are required to (or want to) use an application that uses Hardware DRM, in which case you will need to turn it on.
Or you want to be compatible with such a platform (e.g. to exchange documents, files or email messages), and that platform has decided to lock you out. This is free market destroying stuff.
---
I'm not worried about the use of DRM. I'm worried about the abuse.
And live without the Internet. :^(
This is "informative"? Care to cite a source for all this wisdom you're disseminating? I've heard nothing about special chips in any of the numerous Longhorn press releases (which keep getting re-issued as the ship date marches further and further forward). Microsoft's own page on Trustworthy Computing says they have no illusions that achieving "trustworthiness" will be a quick or easy thing, though it does say the initiative includes things as innovative as (whoah) integrating anti-spam and antivirus features into Outlook. Methinks you've got the tinfoil wrapped a little too tightly around your head.
Breakfast served all day!
[Longhorn] will run with a reduced graphics interface and various other portions of the system will not work at all on non-Trusted hardware
Do you have a citation for this?
I can see how some media features might be disabled on non-Trusted systems (this is even true of W2K/XP), but it seems to be a bit of stretch to think MS would gimp the touted graphical features because of unrelated missing hardware.
Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
"Trusted computing" is not about "anti-piracy", it's not about "virus protection" and it's not about "protecting copyrighted materials". These are all being spun as excuses for implementing DRM. But the real reason for this is so for the industry giants to be able to create a powerful cartel that controls the platform, deciding who is or is not "trusted" to develop software --- in other words, they're trying to never have to worry about competition again.
This is not paranoia, it makes perfect sense for them to do what they're doing, and it is absolutely the most logical thing for them to do. They will definitely try to do this; whether or not they succeed is questionable, although they definitely have a decent chance at succeeding. But think about it - they have everything to win and nothing to lose by just trying this.
I say this. A calm rage fills me.
We need all this DRM stuff put in everything. We need the industries to stop listening to the consumers. We need the world to wake up one morning and suddenly ask,
"What's wrong with my computer?"
I got into this game when I was three years old - 29 as of April - and I've watched it and "played" in it with child-like wonderment up until 1992, then I was even more enthused when I saw my first TV-tuner card at the Brisbane RNA Computer Show.
Since then I haven't really seen any "new" tech, just maturing tech. DRM will be the new tech, and I'm hoping it pushes home computer use back to 1980 levels.
Why?
Because the only way that the industry is going to listen to us, the people buying their products, is when they suddenly find themselves without a revenue stream.
When Little Johnny and Sally Doe can't play their music on their computer... When Grandma Josephine can't watch movies sent to her by her grandchildren... When Joe Sixpack can't rip a music CD and play a copy elsewhere... When opening the Internet is suddenly nothing but Access Denied errors... When the average coder finds he has to pay to distribute his own software... When using a computer is as "arcane" and "difficult" to use as old PDP mainframes... When DRM kills anything on the computer that involves the greater sense of community that the Internet has helped foster... We will leave.
People will only use computers when they have to. The console industry will rise, and the Personal Computer will disappear, replaced by millions of gadgets that either do the job they're required to do, or be discarded by consumers who will perceive them as broken.
We need the DRM to be put into everything it can. We need it be as invasive and putrid as possible. We need hundreds of thousands of salesmen telling customers "No, it's not broken, you just can't do that any more because...". We need millions of personal computer users to get so frustrated that they junk their computers.
We need the IT industry to collapse and nearly disappear thanks to "protecting the consumer". It's the only way they'll wake up and smell what they're shovelling.
I don't want the industry to disappear, but we need it to happen. Those of us who can see what's going on are only a minority. We need the vast majority to once again ignore computers and treat them as a business only, difficult to use device.
There's no piracy excuse for when suddenly no-one is making money selling hardware.
So I say goodbye IT. It was fun while it lasted, starting with playing my first game on that funky little blue paddle box gadget that plugged in to my parents old black and white tv, and perhaps finishing on this Athlon XP with it's LCD display and surround sound...
Goodbye Commodore Vic 20 and 64 fun times, relived on MAME. Goodbye x86 and PowerPC, I never did get around to learning ASM for either of you. Goodbye ease-of-use, user-friendly, plug-and-pray, P2P, HTTP, FTP. Goodbye Mr Computer Salesman, with your mystical devices of sound and vision.
Goodbye.
His name is Robert Paulsen...
I don't understand why someone cannot simply fool DRM-ized software into thinking it's running on a DRM platform through emulation. Meaning why can't someone just implement the Pentium D's DRM chips in software?
I, for one, piss in our new overlords coffee.
SIGSEGV caught, terminating
wait... not that kind of sig.
I wish I could be as optimistic as you. I do. However, I think that the market suppliers, in this case, can't be trusted. If the market doesn't support this type of measure, you can bet that the companies will lobby the government to make this mandatory instead of giving the customers what they want.
It isn't just the hardware manufacturers that we need to be concerned about, either. If the government gets involved or changes are made to TCP/IP, non-TCPA systems might not be allowed on the Internet.
One good thing, though, is that I haven't seen Cisco's name on the list of companies that support this TCPA. Since they produce most of the hardware that powers the Internet, there is still hope that most of the world will remain free of this draconian measure.
My Sysadmin Blog
>[Longhorn] will run with a reduced graphics interface and various other portions of the system will not work at all on non-Trusted hardware
Do you have a citation for this?
I don't recall my original source(s), but I was able to Google this:
Windows "Longhorn" FAQ
In Longhorn, users hoping to take advantage of the system's exciting new capabilities will only be able to use signed drivers.
Microsoft also explains system security enforment requirements to obtain a driver signature. The new interface will refuse to work at all without signed drivers.
Is that adaquate? Do you need me to dig up more on it?
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Remember DVD Jon? As soon as someone tries to force DRM on us, it will be cracked/hacked/circumvented within a month. If not, screw it, I dont buy their crappy pop crap anyway. If DRM prevents us from accessing the internet, screw the internet. We will share data via lan parties, which will eventually become a constant global lan party.
If (when?) DRM/Trusted Computing becomes the defacto standard and the current Internet shuts out/locks out DRMless hardware/software, it just means a return back to days of Bulletin Board Systems and FidoNet (BBS-based 'Internet') for people who truly care about their interet experience and don't want it tainted by DRM/Trusted Computing. Such an 'Internet' will benefit from the absence of the bandwith-sapping, 'unwashed masses' who only see today's Internet as little more than 'online televison' and/or a 'shopping mall'. Email spam should be non-existant on this 'new' internet as the people who use it would be savvy enough to block/delete spam on sight and blackhole the IPs that spew the stuff pronto.
For all Netizens who truly care about the free echange of ideas and resources, please archive all the legally shareable bits of the current Internet you can so you can share them on the 'new internet' when you have to and let the IP cartels have the current spammed-out Internet as their own 'private' content distribution medium.
By reading the frantic comments here, it looks like we were on the verge of a split in the IT world: the DMCA-lobbied part consisting of the US, EU, Australia, etc..., and a DMCA-resistent part consisting of China, Russia and most of the remaining then-free world!
Now imagine a not so far future, where chinese/taiwanese chip manufacturers implemented two versions of their chips: one crippled with DRM for the DMCA-area, the another uncrippled one for the rest of the world and their domestic market. The uncrippled version would have a bit, where one can enable or disable that crap at will, (just like the region-less DVD players, remember that one?), while the DRM in the crippled version could not be turned off.
We'll get the crap, and the Chinese will still be free to get the best of both worlds. Wow! We're living in interesting times.
cpghost at Cordula's Web.