Slashdot Mirror


Cold Fusion in a Breadbox Instead of a Bottle

rawbytes writes "For the last few years, mentioning cold fusion around scientists has been a little like mentioning Bigfoot or UFO sightings. After the 1989 announcement of fusion in a bottle and the subsequent retraction, the whole idea of cold fusion seemed a bit beyond the pale. But that's all about to change. A very reputable, very careful group of scientists at the University of Los Angeles (Brian Naranjo, Jim Gimzewski, Seth Putterman) has initiated a fusion reaction using a laboratory device that's not much bigger than a breadbox, and works at roughly room temperature. This time, it looks like the real thing." From the article: "Scientists have gotten fusion to occur in the laboratory before, but for the most part, they've tried to mimic conditions inside the sun by whipping hydrogen gas up to extreme temperatures or slamming atoms together in particle accelerators. Both of those options require huge energies and gigantic equipment, not the sort of stuff easily available to build a generator. Is there any way of getting protons close enough together for fusion to occur that doesnt require the energy output of a large city to make it happen? The answer, it turns out, is yes."

11 of 438 comments (clear)

  1. I'll believe it... by Dirtside · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...when I see multiple peer-reviewed articles reporting that others have been able to duplicate this experiment. :P

    --
    "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
    1. Re:I'll believe it... by NoMoreNicksLeft · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What strikes me as funny, is now that the proof of concept is out, doesn't that just make it an engineering challenge? Could they quadruple the output by carefully arranging the crystal(s) and conductor? Could they increase it 100fold? (Even though I'm well aware that this still wouldn't be near breakeven).

      How far can it be pushed, with this one method?

      Can they fuse something other than deuterium? Helium, lithium maybe? Don't some of the other elements have interesting fusion properties? (Seem to remember that boron would produce some sigificant voltage in the form of beta radiation).

    2. Re:I'll believe it... by zCyl · · Score: 2, Insightful

      From the article:

      This experiment has been repeated successfully and other scientists have reviewed the results: it looks like the real thing this time.


      Note that this is not the same as OTHER groups reproducting a result. But as others have said here, the physics certainly fits such that even if this were flawed, it's certainly believable that non-breakeven fusion could be done in a similar fashion.

      With that said, the setup is a clever arrangement. :)

    3. Re:I'll believe it... by babbage · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I'll believe it... ...when I see multiple peer-reviewed articles reporting that others have been able to duplicate this experiment. :P

      From the article:

      This experiment has been repeated successfully and other scientists have reviewed the results: it looks like the real thing this time.

      *ahem*

      From the comment:

      I'll believe it... ...when I see multiple peer-reviewed articles reporting that others have been able to duplicate this experiment. :P

      In other words, an article in the Christian Science Monitor -- a fine newspaper, but not a scientific journal by any stretch -- in which the reporter casually asserts without citation that "other scientists" have "reviewed" the results, does not an independent confirmation make.

      You can't just wave your hands and say "oh yeah, others have repeated it, others have reviewed it, we're done here." Who are these others? What exactly did they find, and how closely did everything match the original inputs & outputs? What kind of "review" did they do? We're still just dealing with anecdotes and hearsay, not scientific analysis.

      What the grandparent poster implicitly asked for, reasonably, was [presumably refereed] articles in [presumably credible] scientific journals documented that other [presumably non-pseudo-science] researchers had taken the procedure described here, replicated the experimental apparatus, conducted their own trial of the experiment, and then verified that the results they obtained were in agreement with the ones predicted by the original researchers. If all that happens, then, and only then, are we getting somewhere.

      Until then, this doesn't sound like much more than yet another cold fusion pipe dream.

  2. My God! by Daishiman · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Is this the Week of the Geek or what? Seriously, how long before this is absorbed by some oil giant or some "mysterious accident" occurs to the researchers?

  3. Re:The 2nd To Last Paragraph Is The Most Important by Soybean47 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's not super clear, but I don't think it's a contradiction. Saying "don't expect fusion to become readily available" doesn't mean that it won't, just that you shouldn't expect it. Saying "it really may not be long" doesn't mean it will happen soon, just that it could.

    The summary of that is, "readily available fusion could happen soon, but don't count on it."

  4. Re:The 2nd To Last Paragraph Is The Most Important by Skye16 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    you forgot the most important part: "For the time being". That means that, in the future (perhaps not very long), things could change. She doesn't contradict yourself unless you take words out of context. :]

  5. Re:Who's the idiot moderating this as... by jrockway · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't mind dupes. The whining about dupes I could live without though.

    Seriously. If you see a dupe, don't read it. I didn't see this the first and second times, so this is cool for me :)

    --
    My other car is first.
  6. Re:Christian Science Monitor to the rescue by melted+keyboard · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this process require the fusing of four hydrogen nuclei to get helium, not just two? Hydrogen has an atomic weight of 1, helium has an atomic weight of 4.

  7. Re:It's a triplet, actually... by JabberWokky · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The problem is that the summary (and sometimes the article) for these posts are too vague. There are plenty of ways to make fusion devices. In fact, some of them are fairly safe and cost a few hundred dollars.

    The problem is the same as fission until the discovery of neutrons and subsequent discovery of chain reactions in certain elements -- there's no apparent way to do it without putting more energy into the reaction than you get out. Einstein thought it couldn't be done until Szilard convinced him (which resulted in a few historically significant letters).

    Now, these could be duplicates, if the method is the same between them. They could be old news if it is a well known fusion method. Or they could be new methods, worthy of new articles... but they are often written so vague that there is no real way to determine the method.

    It's a bit as if every new CPU and GPU announcement read something like: "Engineers release chip on silicon!", and everybody referred to them as duplicates... not because there is not new news there, but rather that there are not enough details to distinguish the stories from each other.

    --
    Evan

    --
    "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
  8. Re:Dammit Scotty! by ehartwell · · Score: 2, Insightful
    It's a little soon to be using Dilithium. According to Memory Alpha,
    "On Federation starships, the warp core usually consists of a matter/antimatter reaction assembly (MARA) utilizing deuterium and antideuterium reacting in a crystal matrix. Lithium crystals were used until sometime between 2265 and 2266 when they were replaced with dilithium crystals."
    So we still have a few years to work with plain old lithium tantalite. According to the original article,
    "[heating or cooling] some crystals causes electrons to build up on one side, creating a charge difference over the body of the crystal. These are called pyroelectric crystals... Scientists inserted a small pyroelectric crystal (lithium tantalite) inside a chamber filled with hydrogen. Warming the crystal by about 100 degrees (from -30 F to 45F) produced a huge electrical field of about 100,000 volts across the small crystal.
    "The tip of a metal wire was inserted near the crystal, which concentrated the charge to a single, powerful point. Remember, hydrogen nuclei have a positive charge, so they feel the force of an electric field, and this one packed quite a wallop! The huge electric field sent the nuclei careening away, smacking into other hydrogen nuclei on their way out. Instead of using intense heat or pressure to get nuclei close enough together to fuse, this new experiment used a very powerful electric field to slam atoms together."
    No mention whether it uses beer and/or beer cans for fuel.