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Cold Fusion in a Breadbox Instead of a Bottle

rawbytes writes "For the last few years, mentioning cold fusion around scientists has been a little like mentioning Bigfoot or UFO sightings. After the 1989 announcement of fusion in a bottle and the subsequent retraction, the whole idea of cold fusion seemed a bit beyond the pale. But that's all about to change. A very reputable, very careful group of scientists at the University of Los Angeles (Brian Naranjo, Jim Gimzewski, Seth Putterman) has initiated a fusion reaction using a laboratory device that's not much bigger than a breadbox, and works at roughly room temperature. This time, it looks like the real thing." From the article: "Scientists have gotten fusion to occur in the laboratory before, but for the most part, they've tried to mimic conditions inside the sun by whipping hydrogen gas up to extreme temperatures or slamming atoms together in particle accelerators. Both of those options require huge energies and gigantic equipment, not the sort of stuff easily available to build a generator. Is there any way of getting protons close enough together for fusion to occur that doesnt require the energy output of a large city to make it happen? The answer, it turns out, is yes."

26 of 438 comments (clear)

  1. It's a Dupe by alanw · · Score: 3, Informative
  2. I'll believe it... by Dirtside · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...when I see multiple peer-reviewed articles reporting that others have been able to duplicate this experiment. :P

    --
    "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
    1. Re:I'll believe it... by nurhussein · · Score: 5, Funny

      Does a duplicate post count?

    2. Re:I'll believe it... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm sure it's real. In any case, it's not the "Cold Fusion" everyone is looking for. We've got a host of "cold" fusion options today including the Farnsworth-Hirsch Fusor and Sonofusion. Neither one manages to produce positive net energy output. What was so striking about the original Cold Fusion experiments was that they produced more energy than was put in. *If* it's actually fusion (and not just a weird chemical reaction) and *if* we can make it regularly reproducable, then Cold Fusion could essentially change the world.

      Imagine a car that only needs to be refueled every few months/years. Or a power system for your home that is independent from the Grid. Or ships that no longer have to rely on Diesel. That is the temptation of Cold Fusion. Unfortunately, our physics and engineering are not quite that good yet. But I'm sure it's only 20 years away... ;-)

    3. Re:I'll believe it... by KernyKat · · Score: 5, Informative
      I'll believe it... ...when I see multiple peer-reviewed articles reporting that others have been able to duplicate this experiment. :P
      From the article:
      This experiment has been repeated successfully and other scientists have reviewed the results: it looks like the real thing this time.
    4. Re:I'll believe it... by Rei · · Score: 3, Interesting

      is now that the proof is out, doesn't that make it an engineering challenge?

      No.

      You could have said the exact same thing about any of the couple dozen fusion devices produced to date. Between bremsstrahlung losses and input energy requirements, most fusion devices are physically unable to even approach their input energy.

      Not that there aren't interesting techniques to watch. ITER is almost guaranteed to work; whether it will ever be economical is a big question. Muon-catalyzed fusion is interesting because if you can stop the muon from sticking to helium so frequently (which some researchers claim to be able to do), you can have a single muon cause numerous reactions, and easily pay off the generation cost. Sonofusion is new, and relatively unexplored, so there's plenty of potential. Inertial electrostatic confinement is old and has only been making baby steps since then, but does keep on improving (I'd be interested in seing how some of the penning-trap gridless and magnetically-shielded grid designs work out), and has interesting potential to be scaled up to everyone's favorite, boron-hydrogen fusion. Focus fusion is another interesting highly scalable design to watch.

      --
      Sigur RÃs: I didn't know that Heaven had a rock band.
    5. Re:I'll believe it... by Rei · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As of the late 90s some calculations showed that ITER would be a failure. Simulations have gotten a lot more accurate since then, however, and they bode very well for ITER.

      Basic Z-pinch is pretty dead as far as break-even attempts go - the plasma is just too unstable. Its closest living relative is the Z-machine, which really works quite differently than typical Z-pinch concepts (you use X-rays from the plasma of a sacrificial tungsten filament to compress the fuel). It is alive and kicking, and due for a big upgrade, :)

      --
      Sigur RÃs: I didn't know that Heaven had a rock band.
    6. Re:I'll believe it... by babbage · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I'll believe it... ...when I see multiple peer-reviewed articles reporting that others have been able to duplicate this experiment. :P

      From the article:

      This experiment has been repeated successfully and other scientists have reviewed the results: it looks like the real thing this time.

      *ahem*

      From the comment:

      I'll believe it... ...when I see multiple peer-reviewed articles reporting that others have been able to duplicate this experiment. :P

      In other words, an article in the Christian Science Monitor -- a fine newspaper, but not a scientific journal by any stretch -- in which the reporter casually asserts without citation that "other scientists" have "reviewed" the results, does not an independent confirmation make.

      You can't just wave your hands and say "oh yeah, others have repeated it, others have reviewed it, we're done here." Who are these others? What exactly did they find, and how closely did everything match the original inputs & outputs? What kind of "review" did they do? We're still just dealing with anecdotes and hearsay, not scientific analysis.

      What the grandparent poster implicitly asked for, reasonably, was [presumably refereed] articles in [presumably credible] scientific journals documented that other [presumably non-pseudo-science] researchers had taken the procedure described here, replicated the experimental apparatus, conducted their own trial of the experiment, and then verified that the results they obtained were in agreement with the ones predicted by the original researchers. If all that happens, then, and only then, are we getting somewhere.

      Until then, this doesn't sound like much more than yet another cold fusion pipe dream.

    7. Re:I'll believe it... by Lucractius · · Score: 4, Informative

      Being without modpoints ill just reply.

      Yes thats correct. Fe represents the balance point in the order of things.

      As a star dies (runs out of H) It begings fusing the He and then Lithium... and will as it gets older, fuse heavier and heavier elements. this is responsible for the swelling of the stars size. Its a 2 stage effect. The difference between the required energy for H fusion and that required for He fusion. Once the H is used up the star begins to colapse, upon reaching the required temp/pressure for He fusion it suddenlt expands out as a new supply of energy is found to counteract gravity. Its outer layers get less dense and expand. While the inner core contracts getting denser as it fuses heavier nuclei. A "middle-sized" star will stop this reaction at Carbon. as there isnt enough energy ftom gravity to compress past this from the stars mass. But with large stars whis continues right up to Fe (Iron-56) and this reaction absorbs energy. And the inside of the star suddenly stops working and the whole star, no longer supported by the output of energy from its core collapses in on itself and goes Supernova.

      Ahh Nuclear physics... such fun

      --
      XML - A clever joke would be here if /. didn't mangle tag brackets.
  3. This is Old News by waynegoode · · Score: 4, Informative
    This is old news. The original report was published in Nature in April.

    It was reported on in the press (MSNBC) and Slashdot had a lively discussion here and slashdotted a UCLA server. There is more at a (hopefully non-slashdotted) UCLA website.

  4. Cautious but optimistic by Eunuch · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The article clearly notes that this is nowhere near break-even. Yet, as it notes, there are many applications beyond positive energy production. If it is a good source of neutrons, then it is well worth the effort.

    I am optimistic. We have a slightly-puritanical mindset that we have to work for everything. Well...we are coming upon an easy and elegant solution to our energy problems. Even fission needs to be explored more as we find newer ways to contain the radiation (nuclear batteries lasting years could come soon if we get over our hangups).

    --
    Transcend Humanity. Please.
  5. Heady group by metlin · · Score: 5, Informative

    That's a pretty heady group.

    Putterman is particularly famous for his work on sonoluminescence.

    Funnily enough, this is not really the core research of Putterman, his earlier work has largely been in the area of blackbody radiation, sonoluminescence and certain related quantum phenomena.

    More technical details would be nice.

  6. Christian Science Monitor to the rescue by TheTranceFan · · Score: 5, Funny
    It's a good thing we've got the Christian Science Monitor's crack staff of writers to help us with the complicated moral issues:

    "...fusing two hydrogen nuclei together to get helium, famously powers our sun (good), as well as hydrogen bombs (bad)."

  7. What next? by Cally · · Score: 4, Funny
    Xbox 360 -> PPC
    Apple -> Intel
    Transmeta go out of business
    Cold fusion

    What the hell can happen next? My money's on Bill Gates being found dead with a grapefruit up his arse up a crack whore alley...

    --
    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
    1. Re:What next? by gclef · · Score: 4, Funny

      Debian will release stable...oh, wait.

  8. Re:The 2nd To Last Paragraph Is The Most Important by Soybean47 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's not super clear, but I don't think it's a contradiction. Saying "don't expect fusion to become readily available" doesn't mean that it won't, just that you shouldn't expect it. Saying "it really may not be long" doesn't mean it will happen soon, just that it could.

    The summary of that is, "readily available fusion could happen soon, but don't count on it."

  9. Re:The 2nd To Last Paragraph Is The Most Important by Skye16 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    you forgot the most important part: "For the time being". That means that, in the future (perhaps not very long), things could change. She doesn't contradict yourself unless you take words out of context. :]

  10. It's a triplet, actually... by Otto · · Score: 3, Informative
    --
    - Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
  11. OMG by c0ldfusi0n · · Score: 5, Funny

    OMG, I'm on slashdot!!

    /sorry
    //had to

    --
    A computer makes it possible to do, in half an hour, tasks which were completely unnecessary to do before.
    1. Re:OMG by loconet · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, seems like you are actually in a Breadbox.

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      [alk]
  12. Re:CSM? by Minwee · · Score: 4, Informative
    I'm going to assume that you just have no clue and are reacting to the word "Christian". You may want to read what the CSM has to say about that before passing judgement.

    I know that I would give more weight to the CSM's coverage of this story than I would, say, Fox News, The Washington Post or Slashdot.org.

  13. Old news by Timesprout · · Score: 4, Funny

    McGuyver did this in Ep. 26 with a matchbox, two cotton buds, a filling from his tooth and some scotch tape.

    --
    Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
    What truth?
    There is no dupe
  14. Dammit Scotty! by Dr.+Bent · · Score: 5, Funny

    From the article:

    Instead of using high temperatures and incredible densities to ram protons together, the scientists at UCLA cleverly used the structure of an unusual crystal.

    That crystal wouldn't happen to be Dilithium would it?

  15. Re:Who's the idiot moderating this as... by jrockway · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't mind dupes. The whining about dupes I could live without though.

    Seriously. If you see a dupe, don't read it. I didn't see this the first and second times, so this is cool for me :)

    --
    My other car is first.
  16. Indeed not. by uberdave · · Score: 3, Funny

    Is this the first tripe article ever!br>br> No, most of the articles on slashdot are tripe. Yet for some reason we all keep coming back.

  17. Well, what about these ideas .... by ankhank · · Score: 3, Informative

    Let's see -- they've talked about cracks in the electrodes, and stressed crystals.

    Can we make a better fusion device using precise fabrication tools? -- produce exactly the right materials and spacing to create tiny little accelerators, artificial crystals, to optimize this procedure?

    If so, can we make a "sea urchin" with a few thousand such little accelerators, all pointed precisely at a tiny pellet -- a miniature version of the giant laser devices currently being built?
    Build the capacitor, the accelerators and the fusion core all on a little chip, wind it up ...

    If so there'd be a nice pellet for for a fusion pellet gun to use to drive an Orion-type spacecraft. Even if it DID take more energy to manufacture than it'd produce, it'd be one heck of a good way to store energy for, um, rapid decomposition devices (things that go boom).

    Or, a wholly different approach --

    I've always wondered what would happen if someone manages to cause fusion to occur between a couple of Bose-Einstein Condensates.

    Make them out of, on the one hand, tritium atoms, and on the other hand, deuterium atoms. Result, one large 'atom' of each element. Very large. Then clap your hands. Fusion?

    Or better yet, use condensates of boron and hydrogen, of course.

    The boron-hydrogen method is described as currently being worked on (not using Bose-Einstein condensates -- using something like the Philo Farnsworth accelerator), if I read it correctly, here:

    http://www.focusfusion.org/energy2.html