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Nerds Make Better Lovers
ultimabaka writes "The New York Daily News, fine bastion of reporting that it is, released an article today discussing the rise of nerd popularity among women in general, and famous women in particular. Detail is given into the dating exploits of Christina Aguilera and Elin Nordegren (nerdy Tiger Woods' supermodel squeeze), among a bunch of regular Janes. Apparently being a nerd is now in?"
So being a rich, well-televised sports figure now makes you a nerd? Interesting.
BS.
The thing about this article is that it's talking about what good providers nerds make. And what nice guys they are. And how much of a 'turn on' that is. People - women and men both - don't like what's good for them. It just doesn't seem to be the way things work. Intelligence, introversion, and individualistic tendencies (standard geek traits) != Sexy. Eval(Good breadwinner + good hair + muscles == sexy) == 1.*
The famous couples in TFA where the male is paid millions to ACT like he's a geek are not good examples.
Geeks are, of course, willing to put a lot more effort into relationships sometimes. And they are sometimes willing to learn, because it's what they like to do. Occasionally they can be interested in learning interpersonal and social skills. That can make them easier to deal with in some ways, and (or so I've been told) intelligence can make them slightly better in certain situations where a bit of knowledge about biology is helpful. Does this make them more attractive? Not really. Does it make it easier for them to get girls to stick around for a while? Kinda. In my experience, the 'geeky' drive to throw intense, unimaginable-to-non-geeks effort into a problem until it is 'solved' has been a great detriment to every relationship I have ever attempted. Add to that the fact that most of the geeks I've known have been idealists, perfectionists, and socially inept for various reasons, and you get a group of people that aren't that sexy. Female geeks generally have their pick of the litter, and that's a sign that it's a very strong seller's market to me.
Sorry. This article isn't accurate. Modern society isn't getting deeper, it's just that its advice columnists want to think they are.
* - I haven't touched a C compiler in years. Correct me all you like.
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Only in NY Daily News' bizzaro world would a 6'2" guy with rippling muscles, can hit a ball 350 yards with a driver, has WORLD-CLASS hand-eye-coordination, and was routinely named as the MOST AVAILABLE BACHELOR IN THE WORLD (before he got married) would be described as "nerdy".
Yeah, and I hear Brad Pitt is practically a hermit.
I am sure there will be a lot of comments on this article like "Yay! I can get a hottie!" now. However, speaking as a woman who has dated several geeks, I thought I would share a woman's perspective.
1) I can't tell you how many geek guys I know who can't even take care of their most basic personal hygiene needs. You need to shower at least once a day and use deodorant to become reasonably attractive to any woman. No woman is turned on by stinky body odor.
2) Self-confidence is attractive. Unfortunately, many geeks think self-confidence is something for guys who brag about every "conquest" they have. It's not. Self-confidence is simply respect and love for who you are. Love yourself first and good relationships will follow. This is difficult, but it's the key ingredient to any successful relationship. If you know who you are and you love who you are, people will love and respect you that much more.
3) Complaining/whining is not attractive. Some geeks have very bitter personalities and spend a lot of time whining about how the world would be a better place if only this or that. (The most common one I hear is whining about a job they're in.) If you complain, do something about it! Start your own business. Program something better on the side and sell it. Take control of the situation and create something better instead of griping.
4) Being a slave isn't attractive. If you make it clear that you'll do anything for a woman, and grovel for her affection, you're going to end up attracting the wrong type of woman. Any successful relationship is a two-way street. While there's nothing wrong with showing your love and affection, groveling only means you'll get taken advantage of and perhaps become bitter about (see #3.)
5) Lead a balanced life. No one is less attractive than someone who sits on a computer all day and never gets out of the house. Plus, it doesn't make for a healthy life of your own (I should know; I work from home and often spend 12-16 hours a day in front of the computer.) Get out there, meet people, and have fun. It will make you feel better about yourself to have a good group of friends around, as well.
I have been in several great relationships with geeky guys. I find the most successful relationships I have are with guys who already have a decent level of self-confidence and several friends who respect and love them. They may be interested in computers, but they are also interested in having fun and getting out of the house on a regular basis. Take this guide to heart and you can have a good relationship with the right woman as well.
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What it comes down to, I think, is that a nerd is a decent choice for a stable, mature relationship, but is generally overlooked. This uses the classic stereotype nerd to some extent, as someone smart but introverted.
Younger women, like young men, basically look at superficial traits to a large extent. They are attracted to certain body shapes, personality types, and dress. Nerds don't tend to meet those, and get forgotten. When people mature a little, they start to look more for a personality that they can spend the rest of their life with. Nerds can fit very well in this category, but they get forgotten because they aren't out socializing, and because of negative stereotypes. Some people are just pointing out that they deserve a second look.
Then again, I can only comment from observation. 29 and never been on a date.
Not surprisingly, hardly a word in this entire comments section is about girl geeks :P
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Now that that's out of the way, I can make a more rational response.
Women are attracted to intelligence and stability? As a femmegeek, I've known this for ages. What irks me about most of the comments is the reversion to early adolescence that marks these discussions. Using the experiences of high school as a benchmark for your entire life seems a really bass-ackwards thing to do. Almost nobody is, as a teenager, self-confident enough to choose a dating partner without regard to what your "friends" might say. And yes; women can be horribly self-absorbed and shallow. Even women who self-identify as "nerdy". Guess what, though: men can too, and in some ways, they can be even worse about it. I have, sadly, dated male geeks who wanted me around because having an attractive female on their arm supposedly raised their status, somehow. Never mind that I was at least as intelligent as they were; they wanted a trophy, and nothing more. However, I've stuck with the high-IQ set, instead of lowering my standards, because I am attracted to intelligence. I think that many, many other women out there are as well, but given the still-prevalent expectation that "girls aren't..." (good at math, interested in science, fill in your stereotype of choice), most women are more than a little reluctant to admit it. The 50s-era maternal admonition of "boys don't like girls who are too smart" still echoes today.
Luckily, I never bought into it. So I sit here, posting on Slashdot, an intelligent, fit, good-looking geek woman, who isn't ashamed to admit the fact. And I think that I speak for a number of my fellow geekettes, gentlemen, when I say that smart is sexy. If you want to engage my hormones, engage my brain first. I'm not going to make hot sweaty snugglebunnies with anyone with whom I can't have a good conversation.
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I agree...
Talking about famous people and how they have the hottest women and still are nerdy, is just an example of how easy it is to get a trophy wife when you are famous and have money. Elin Nordegren, to whom Tiger Woods is married, would never have ended up with a guy like Tiger if he had nopt been worth $500 million+.
Don't get your hopes up guys, girls don't like introverted single minded computergeeks. Get a different hobby, lose the ugly glasses, get some contacts. Get a skin treatment and loose some weight. Get some dental work done. Learn how to communicate and how to listen. Girls in general couldn't care less about computers, nor do they like that you spend 10 hours a day in front of the screen.
Nerds, geeks and what not... If you want a girl, you need to change. Introverts are not sexy, they are horrible to be around due to their intorversion. Sorry guys, don't get ypur hopes up!!
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Yes, all true, but there are things that take points away like living in Mom's basement, having pasty white skin, and living off of caffeine and doritos.
If you live in your parent's basement (and you're past college age), you're a loser. Being a nerd/geek is not your problem.
If she meets your parents before you you first kiss her, it's going to be much harder make a good impression. Would you date a girl that would likely require you to move into her 12x10 bedroom with cinderella sheets, n'sync posters, barbies on the shelves and her nutty parents across the hallway? How she looks and acts would barely come into play.
very true,
I want so badly to screw my Fiancee's best friend... she is 8 year younger, drop dead beautiful and not good for me in any way.
She is a wack job nutcase that I am certian that after a few weeks of wild and crazy sex would result in my tolerance of her absolute wierdness and bitchyness to drop to zero.
On the Other Hand, My fiancee is a wonderful loving caring and wonderfully sexually twisted woman that is most certianly the best for me. It took me 2 years to get over my wanting to not date her but her friends or the other nutty but really hot women I meet.
The slightly homely woman that had a normal upbringing and is a boring geeky girl that will watch SCIFI, thinks that robot chicken and the venture brothers is a hoot and was willing to laugh with me all the way through "team america" and basically is my absolute best friend is my choice for my life mate.
Remember guys, the HOT CHICK will be a wrinkly old hag with a "hump-me" tattoo above her butt in 15 years. Tolerating a woman's wierdness or lack of personality because she makes you horny just looking at her is not with it.
A woman who can be your best friend is your best choice, looks mean nothing.
Believe me, I've been married to the hottie, it ain't worth it... not even if she can suck the chrome off a trailer hitch.
And guess what, that "slightly homely girl" become the most beautiful woman in the world to you as you realize who she really is.
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No matter how hard I tried to get that same youthful fun, I could never quite get what I saw a lot of my peers getting. I feel I missed out of something.
Here's the way I see it. I might have missed out on some fun, and also probably a lot of stupid and self-destructive things too, but I have the rest of my life to enjoy being with my wife (12 years so far), while many of those party animal types will end up divorced and bitter.
Did I miss out? Sure. Do I care? Heck no.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
And that's the part that has always made me bitter. The fact us geeks will be there when these wild women are "ready to settle down." We won't be out there having the wild fun, partying, adventures with them, we'll be there when they're ready to end that and become more serious. They'll have all these memories and experiences, we'll have Saturday nights watching Star Trek reruns.
Dude, if I could give you and anyone else who reads this some advice, please listen closely.. You do no need a female to go have wild fun partying adventures. Before I get flamed, let me elaborate.
When I was 16-20 I did the typical "nerd" stuff. Sat at home on weekends, tinkered with my computer/hobbies, and never had social interaction. When I turned 21 I was fed up with it and went and got a job at a nightclub. I didn't know a single person there when I started, I didn't have a girlfriend, I just took the plunge and immersed myself in the whole nightlife scene. I was working the door of the club, and believe me, everyone wants to know the door guy. We charged a $5 cover and you wouldn't believe what some people will do to get out of paying cover. I got kisses from hot females, drinks, phone numbers, flashed various body parts, etc. Within a couple of months I was starting to go out partying with my co-workers from the club, and within a year I knew just about everyone that came in regularly.
So in about a year's time I went from a social "zero" to a well known guy in the night life scene. In the few years that followed (my early 20's) I had plenty of girls, tons of friends, and all of the wild partying fun adventures I could handle. At one point I was even dating a stripper for a couple of months. I'm settled down and engaged now (NOT to the stripper), but I wouldn't trade those few years for ANYTHING. Yeah I probably shaved a few years off the end of my life, and yeah I probably could have spend that time doing something "productive" like studying or programming, but you only get once chance at life to have great experiences. IMO you should take them whenever possible, or make them if you have to.
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Don't turn it into a gender issue. It's not. It has to do with maturity.
I've found for most women they aren't looking for a solution, they are looking for empathy. When they start complaining about so-and-so at work is so difficult to work with, they don't want you to start asking questions and trying to figure out how they can work together better. They just want you to say, "they are just a bad person, I mean everybody else loves working with you."
In their mind they already have a solution, they don't want to hear yours, they just want to know they are supported.
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Actually, I think that this is more socially than naturally.
... bah).
I know A LOT of men who find it very pleasant just to speak about problems without trying to find a solution. It makes me feel lighter.
The main problem is this stupid image of "the man" in society, that "a man" has to have the solution to everything. When I speak about a problem without trying to solve it, I risk that other look down on me. (Psychologically, I could say that they just dont want to be reminded that they havent the solution to every problem either, but that's their problem)
Another problem is to find people that actually listen the way I want them to. Men tend to offer solutions, and I dont want solutions, I can find them myself, women tend to offer comfort ("this isn't that bad", "time will solve it") and I dont want comfort, it IS bad, or I wouldnt speak of it.
What I'm looking for in a listener is his interest and his capacity to make me feel less alone. And to feel accepted despite (or even because!) the fact that I currently dont have a solution.
Almost all people who I introduced to this "just listen" thing, ended up preferring it to advice and comforting. Men and women along.
(Note : sometimes I also look for advice, and then I say so directly. And I find it much easier to ask for advice than to ask someone to listen. If I ask for advice, I already have figured what to do : namely, ask for advice. If I ask someone to listen, I'm lost.)
Generally, I think that men tend to hide their insecurity in silence, women hide their insecurity by speaking about superficially things. Both to avoid speaking about the insecurity. To avoid showing a fragility, a vulnerability.
And I find speaking about the insecurity difficult, risky, more often than not i'm terrified of being rejected, but in the end very rewarding. And I have found friends who dont reject me for it and I stick with them, as I find it highly comforting to know that I dont have to be perfect the whole time, to always have a solution, in order to keep my friends / girlfriend / family.
And many people actually react positivly to fragility, probably because it makes me more "human" in their perception.
And right now, I hesitate to click on the submit button for fear of rejection, especially after Semi-Lagrange said it would be "mentally underdeveloped" to only speak 'to put things on the table'. However, this is how I live my life and I want to combat these gender images (especially the "a real man only talks for to find solutions"
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Your list of suggestions make sense, but as a self-proclaimed "geek guy" who believes he already follows most of those, I'd still have to make a few counter-points.
1. I *do* complain (or whine; your pick how you wish to label it) a lot about things I observe in the world around me. If that's too "unattractive" for a woman to deal with, so be it. But I usually point such things out to spark a conversation. I'm typically upset at something I think needs to be pointed out and addressed, rather than just swept under the rug. All too often, I think women want to avoid confrontation or discussion that might not be of the "happy, happy - joy, joy" type. You know... the types that try to end all political discussion at a table as soon as it starts, with a "can't we just talk about something ELSE?!" plea?
2. I'm not too convinced many women really want a guy that seems very "into" them at all? Practically every time I've been in a new relationship that I was really excited about (felt those "sparks" from the first time we met and all that good stuff), the thing that seemed to immediately terminate it was expressing the fact that I felt so strongly about it! My theory is, women want to feel like they're the ones who "won the guy over" themselves... They want to be the one in the "driver's seat" after the guy makes that first move and does the initial "hitting on them" and they accept. No matter how much you're falling into "like", "love" or "lust" for the woman, the only thing she wants is for you to pay attention to her on her terms, and always drop what you're doing to come over there *if you're invited*, but NOT to start doing things on your own to show how much you care. It has to be HER show, played out the way SHE wants it to play out.
3. On the "balanced life" thing, sure - everyone needs to get out in public now and then. But if you're really into computers, you can use that to your advantage rather than it working against you here. The computer is the ultimate communications tool! Get into a local IRC chat room for your city or state and organize a "get together" for the people who congregate there. Use email to invite some people out for dinner or bowling or trivia night or whatever you think they'd all enjoy. Do some searches online for recommendations of interesting things to do or see in your area. Buy a cheap hand-held GPS and get into the new hobby of GeoCaching! (www.geocaching.com)