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Hackers, Meet Microsoft

Mz6 writes "The random chatter of several hundred Microsoft engineers filled the cavernous executive briefing center recently at the company's sprawling campus outside Seattle. Within minutes after their meeting was convened, however, the hall became hushed. Hackers had successfully lured a Windows laptop onto a malicious wireless network. 'It was just silent,' said Stephen Toulouse, a program manager in Microsoft's security unit. 'You couldn't hear anybody breathe.' The demo was part of an extraordinary two days in which outsiders were invited into the heart of the Windows empire for the express purpose of exploiting flaws in Microsoft computing systems. The event, which Microsoft has not publicized, was dubbed 'Blue Hat' -- a reference to the widely known 'Black Hat' security conference, tweaked to reflect Microsoft's corporate color."

6 of 496 comments (clear)

  1. Getting through to engineers is hard by kt0157 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In my previous company I tried to communicate with engineers. I was an engineer, but it's still damned hard. Programmers just don't "get it" without hard work. In the end, this kind of smack-in-the-face-by-the-real-world approach is what is needed.

    I reckon it's because so many programmers have at least a touch of Asperger's. The number of times I'd try to explain that customers behave like monkeys, focusing on the wrong things, buying products for the wrong reasons. But these reasons aren't "wrong" if it means the difference between selling a product and not selling a product. That yes, it's "wrong" to buy a product because we've used Times Roman screenfonts but the competitor used Tahoma, but just change the goddamn font, OK?

    Reminds me of the story about 1-Click from Amazon. After patiently explaining what he wanted, the developers all nodded and said, yes, they can do 1-click. A few weeks later the prototype is ready and Bezos tries it out. He clicks on a book. And up pops a dialog box that says "Are you sure?"..

    Read about this in Cooper's book "The Inmates Are Running The Asylum."

    K.

  2. Give Microsoft Its Due by MrNonchalant · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm banking that I'm the first one to say this, and that there are at least a few reasonable moderators out there.

    This represents a step in the right direction for Microsoft. Perhaps as a community we need to face the possibility that they may be changing. I read the entire article, and it seemed as if Microsoft genuinely wanted to change. I run Linux, and so do a lot of you, so it is understandable when a lot of you will deride Windows no matter what because it represents a competitor. I just don't buy into that philosophy, it doesn't hold much room for fair.

    Giant Anti-Spyware, IE 7, and the anti-vrus acquisitions are all good indications. Let us just hope, for the internet and personal computing's sake, that Microsoft doesn't blow it and charge for them. Either that, or blows it so hard their customers (corporate and power user home) all look for more stable operating systems (hint: all other consumer desktops of any note run a Unix derivative of one sort or another).

  3. Re:Good start by dbIII · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Microsoft is showing their own coders how vulnerable their code is, but these are probably the people who already know that best.
    Possibly not. Isn't it the policy at Microsoft to almost exclusively hire recent graduates that haven't worked elsewhere? Even a monoculture of the best graduates is still a monoculture, and it is quite likely that they are not aware of things that are common knowlege elsewhere. Bringing in others gave us NT - not bringing in others gave us Outlook, IE in a state of near abandonment for years, ping so far off standard you could use it to crash servers and a whole lot of software in which it is obvious that little thought of security or even networking was involved.

    It's like the old saying - three ways to do things: right way, wrong way, army way. Training recent graduates to the corporate culture only works if there are others coming in to stop it being an exercise in corporate narcissism, which is dangerous in a company like Microsoft that makes money by high volume, low development cost "good enough" software as distinct from the expensive low volume stuff you would trust to handle a stock exchange or air traffic control. If they aimed to be the best they would not be so successful, they would be undercut.

    The guys writing the code need to be aware of what is going on in the rest of the world.

  4. Re:"End of an era"? by Randseed · · Score: 4, Interesting
    It depends. That seems to usually be the bottom line in this kind of thing.

    Linux these days is generally more secure out of the box. But when you install it, you really need to do a 'netstat -ln' and see what's open. Then set up a reasonable firewall. Your average idiot out there can't do this. (I use Gentoo, so I have absolutely no clue how other distributions handle this stuff, and I don't know what kind of blackbox firewall setups are out there.)

    Linux can be less secure than Windows. Usually that's accomplished by turning on all sorts of crap that you don't need, not securing it, and not updating it.

    Windows, by default, is a typical blackbox. The thing is an absolute mess. Years after they first appeared, we still have Outlook viruses that pop up every day. Web browsing with MSIE is like playing Russian Roulette. At least with Linux you don't have to worry about that as much. With Linux, you set the system up, and it stays set up that way for the most part. So many packages (malicious and legitimate) change settings in Windows, that it's nearly impossible sometimes to have a good picture of what is going on with your system.

    I took a Windows system down ony my home network because after one of my family used the thing for a few months I threw a traffic and systems analyzer on the thing and saw so much spyware and so many viruses on it that I couldn't justify letting the thing stay on my network. This was with Norton Antivirus running on it, mind you. As it is, any Windows installation I have is sectioned from the rest of the network for just that reason. They sit on their own subnet, can't talk to each other, can't talk to the LAN, and can only route out to the Internet.

  5. Re:Good start by peragrin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    nope it's not being phased out.

    the managed .NET code that was supposed to be an all new APi is being removed to speed up the deadline. Avalon is being back ported to windows XP. Win FS is being dropped due to it being to big of a concept and MSFT doesn't have anyone to copy off of.

    Longhorn I hoped would of been a complete rewrite. it failed. There is not a single new innovative feature in longhorn now. spotlight searches fast and effective, on all but networked drives. GPU driven displays OSX and a large number of X server's(sgi's)

    New remote command shell is a combination of applescript and a python interpreter. It would of been cool but it's been delayed.

    Yet somewhere MSFT found the time to make their own Bit torrent P2P client and server setups. I guess it shows where MSFT lays it's priorities. An app that won't bring them cash or their Next Generation OS.

    --
    i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
  6. Re:Puzzled: why get angry? by GT_Alias · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There are few motivations as powerful as public humiliation.