The Complete History of RIM

museumpeace writes "I enjoyed reading Alex Frankel's thorough Tech. Review article on the luck, persistence and shrewdness that took RIM's proprietary mobile e-mail technology from presumed small niche product to the must-have blackberry that so many use today. Although the technology at the heart of the product was developed in 1989, it took years of further development, the lucky break of GPRS supplanting Mobitex, and the business smarts to jump on their first-mover advantage and the daring to partner with giant Nokia who could have swallowed RIM. Its a great example of how to succeed by carefully making a defacto standard out of a good proprietary technology."

Comments

First-post mover advantage!

[Anonymous Coward]

*groan*

For a while I thought

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, it's nothing as lewd and unsavoury as that.

I GOT IT! I GOT IT!

[Anonymous Coward]

I got the solution for the profitability problems open source companies (and individuals) in general has!

Instead of:
1: Make free software.
2: ?
3: Profit!

Use:
1: Make propietary software.
2: Sell.
3: Profit!

!

You'd think

[BillsPetMonkey]

They could find a better name for it.

All this talk of mobile RIMming and Nokia swallowing RIM just sounds a bit icky.

Re:You'd think

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a story that fits in perfectly here.

Before RIM really hit the big time, my company had a chance encounter with them, and ended up getting a job to do some e-commerce programming for them. The project involved about two months of them trying to figure out just what they wanted to do, and me trying to keep up with the constant scope changes. After all that hassle, I handed over a working script to them, which they...promptly deployed into production, right?

Heh, I wish. As far as I know, they ended up not even using it. Still paid us for the work, but didn't use even one line of it, at least to our knowledge. In 9 years at my position, I can't recall a more bizarre chain of events.

To this day, that project is known simply as "the RIM job". I left that job last week, but the legacy remains.

Re:You'd think

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

I handed over a working script to them, which they...promptly deployed into production, right?

Heh, I wish. As far as I know, they ended up not even using it. Still paid us for the work, but didn't use even one line of it

Don't be silly, I'm sure they reused at least #!/usr/bin/perl

Re:You'd think

[epiphani]

I applied for a RIM job about a year ago. I had a friend who already had a RIM job, so that gave me a leg up on the competition. The interview for my RIM job was a little disappointing. I didnt realize I had to talk to so many people just to get a RIM job. And to top it all off, they asked me some really easy questions. I think I had a good shot at getting a RIM job, but I ended up going elsewhere. I'll probably apply for a RIM job again in a year or two, because eventually I want one. I just have to get some other experience first. Cant really get a RIM job without having experienced some other things first, eh..

Re:You'd think

[slughead]

I once applied for a job working with RIM. On the application it asked for "tongue length".. I don't think I've ever run so fast in my life.

Re:You'd think

[WilliamSChips]

No, they recoded the program in Python.

Not to mention...

[Anonymous Coward]

The explosion of RIM jobs and how it lead to an increase of black berries...

Re:Not to mention...

[Maavin]

eeeewwwwww...

Re:Not to mention...

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you have it backwords, it was an explosion of black berries that lead to an increasing number of RIM jobs... although, frankly I wish you were right.. who would RIM job after a black berry explosion?

Blackberry used by so many

[Saven Marek]

Blackberry is used by so many? just recently on slashdot was the first time I and many had heard of it.

Marketing hype taking over slashdot.

Re:Blackberry used by so many

[PsiPsiStar]

I'm not sure that Blackberry has really penetrated the tech crowd so much. It was supposed to be very popular around Washington, I'd heard.

Or maybe this is marketing hype after all. We do seem to be getting a lot of that lately. Slashdot editors trying to earn some extra cash, perahps?

Re:Blackberry used by so many

[bsharitt]

It is a device that isn't so big with the gadget crowd, but a must have for corporate users, mostly becasue it's not necesarily sexy, but it does do its job well. It's not something and individual geek would have.

Re:Blackberry used by so many

[Big Sean O]

In the federal government, it's about the only approved PDA you can get that will let you sync your work email. Some models also double as cell phones.

You know you're sitting in a room of "very important bureaucrats" because you see them checking their email during meetings.

The ostensible reason they're so popular is during 9/11, cellphones didn't work, but Blackberries worked fine.

Re:Blackberry used by so many

[ambienceman]

Trust me guy; Blackberry is THE STANDARD when it comes to corporate mobile e-mail. My dad is a system admin, and he uses the Blackberry with the Nextel Direct Connect capability. Just walk around New York City and see how many of the corporate suits carry one of these device along with their cellular and laptops (if they need them). Heck, last night I even saw a young boy learning how to use HIS OWN Blackberry from his mom and dad who BOTH had one. They even have an illness assiciated with it. Blackberry finger...it was so popular that it made it on the top news columns a few months ago.

Re:Blackberry used by so many

[Zro Point Two]

You are quite right about it not hitting the tech crowd very much. The BlackBerry is meant to do one thing, and it does that one thing better than any. Email.

The tech crowd want something like the Treo that can do everything.

The business professional just wants rock solid and secure email. And the BlackBerry offers them that.

Re:Blackberry used by so many

[Zro Point Two]

The reason it's the approved choice of the government is because of security. 3DES encryption while in transmission over the wireless network.

Also has the ability to use S/MIME underneath the 3DES so that when it's travelling on the regular internet traffic, it's still encrypted.

(and yes, I know, you can do S/MIME with the Treo also)

Re:Blackberry used by so many

[Phil06]

Maybe it would have been popular with the tech people if it had been more convergent rather than a narrow proprietary gadget. There were millions of laptops out there and millions of cell phones. Nobody could make them work together except perhaps some tech heads who happened to notice they both had IR ports. Why is that? Why do we have another technolgy taking off that doesn't work with other stuff?

Re:Blackberry used by so many

[salesgeek]

Blackberry is used by so many? just recently on slashdot was the first time I and many had heard of it.

Blackberry has not been sold to geeks - it has primary sold to executives and traditional professionals like doctors and lawyers. It's on the radar for geeks because RIM is selling the hell out of Enterprise Servers - which get stuck in the data center.

Personally, I've owned treos, PocketPC phones, and even kyocera smartphones. Nothing comes close to the user experience with BlackBerry - but they could certainly use an open source software community, somehting that isn't going to happen until RIM changes their SDK and application signing terms. I'd go nuts writing software in my spare time if RIM would make it so it doesn't cost me more than I would plan on making off the whole thing (a couple hundred bucks)... I suspect I'm not the only one who isn't coding on the principle of the $200 application signing fee...

Re:Blackberry used by so many

[BlackberryCool]

Gartner says it's the #1 selling PDA: Gartner Report

Re:Blackberry used by so many

[Tony Hoyle]

I'd heard of it before.. some US type managers came over here and demanded it was issued to them. It needs a dedicated server (not compatible with IMAP.. ffs!) and was vetoed on financial grounds.

I saw one up close once.. damn fugly with a tiny qwerty keyboard & mmonochrome display.

Re:Blackberry used by so many

[LiamQ]

Only some APIs require signing. You can still write complex apps without paying anything if you stick to the unsigned APIs.

The BlackBerry also runs MIDlets, which you can write with no fees. As a bonus, MIDlets also work on hundreds of other mobile phones.

Re:Blackberry used by so many

[AdamInParadise]

Plus it is not a per-application fee. It's more of a per-company fee. Once you get the certificate from RIM, you can sign as many applications as you want.

However, it's true that they could use an open-source community.

Regards

Re:Blackberry used by so many

[bonehead]

Out in Vegas a few weeks ago at a convention, I bet I saw 50 Treo's clipped to people's belts (both techie and management types), while I saw a grand total of ONE blackberry.

The thing that really struck me about the blackberry was it's size. The bulk of the Treo took a little getting used to for me, but that blackberry was huge.

Re:Blackberry used by so many

[JhohannaVH]

Not true. Mine's color! :) There is also the model 7199T that has a funky 20 key keyboard and uses 'intelligence' to help you out. It's obnoxious. I'll stick to my small qwerty keyboard... I've learned it well enough to do whatever I really need to, mostly. Sometimes it takes a bit more control than I want it to, but I modify the SmartText when that happens.
The thing that I hate is that the browser on it kinda stinks. I mean, it's great for the mobile targeted sites, I can order movie tickets, etc... but I can't do the simplest thing like check my gmail. So I was pondering forwarding my gmail accounts to the t-mobile account that I can set up for my blackberry so I can get them on my blackberry. But then Paris got hacked. :P Hell no, I don't need to be that mobile, thanks.
My husband calls it my looking glass because I am checking it every 20 - 30 minutes. But then, we have a response time to keep to. :P
Jho

Re:Blackberry used by so many

[Jack Johnson]

I work in DC.

Blackberries are all over the place here. On a downtown Metro platform, at rush hour at least 3-5 will be visible at any given time.

I administer a Blackberry Enterprise Server. The ubiquitous, strong, transparent encryption, wireless wipe/reprovisioning and underground (Metrorail) coverage from Verizon makes the devices very popular here.

Re:Blackberry used by so many

[Anonymous Coward]

"But then Paris got hacked."..

who the fuck are you ?

Re:Blackberry used by so many

[aprilsound]

I'm guessing you don't have a corporate job.

In my company (gotta keep the details light...), probably 1 in 3 people have a blackberry, and its been that way for some time. (of course if you buy one and can claim you need it for 'business' the company pays for it, so why shoudln't everyone? but i digress)

Several members of our current management team actualy got hired as result of a decision our CEO made while on a hunting trip with his blackberry. He was out stalking deer, but the offer we made got sent and confirmed within 5 minutes. No waiting till the next week, we sealed the deal immediatly.

The point is that plenty of serious business gets conducted with blackberries, by non-techies. Blackberry is fairly ubiquitous in the corporate culture, and there isnt really anything else (unless you want to count SMS, pfsh)

Thats like saying "Water is used by so many" is marketing hype. Water as opposed to what?

So are RIM good guys?

[Salk]

What about Nokia?

I know M$ is bad and GNU/Linux good beyond that I get a cluster headache.

Article Text

[Anonymous Coward]

In November 2002, Research in Motion (RIM) and Nokia announced a licensing arrangement allowing Nokia to offer its customers the ability to receive e-mail using RIM's BlackBerry software. The news perplexed industry watchers. For the three years before the deal, only RIM's devices could connect with the company's enterprise server, so that RIM owned both parts of the market for wireless e-mail: the devices and their software. RIM, in fact, seemed to own the very notion of that market.

The BlackBerry was the hardware equivalent of a killer app, the now overused term popularized in the 1980s to describe a piece of software so attractive to users that they feel they cannot be without it. Every new technology needs a killer app to establish its acceptance; for wireless e-mail, the BlackBerry filled that need. As businesses started to deploy the device to an increasingly mobile--and pressed--workforce, BlackBerry emerged as a critical tool for businesspeople.

Why, then, would RIM make its proprietary software available to others? Why would the company partner with a massive competitive threat such as Nokia? To many observers outside RIM, these decisions signaled a major shift in the company's business model. But to those inside RIM, they stemmed from a strategy the company had always followed.

RIM's case highlights a business problem that countless technology companies have had to deal with: when a company creates a revolutionary product whose software becomes critical to the establishment of a market, it has to figure out whether to keep its software all to itself or license it in an effort to make its technology the industry standard.

RIM has, throughout its history, followed two imperatives: make the best possible proprietary device for wireless e-mail and follow whatever course will increase the size of that market. Started in 1984 as a firm that built electronic devices for other companies, RIM signed its first deal with General Motors, to deliver a networked display system that scrolled words across LED signs in GM factories. The idea behind what eventually became the BlackBerry system dates to 1989, when RIM worked on an outsourced project for Ericsson. As RIM focused more on wireless data, it started manufacturing its own devices. Pager companies like Motorola had tried to combine e-mail with pagers, but none of the devices achieved much success. By the early 1990s, even PC-based e-mail had yet to take off, and many in the telecommunications industry saw wireless e-mail as a product that people did not really want or need.

RIM proved the viability of this market in stages. First, it received an order in 1997 from BellSouth for $50 million worth of wireless e-mail devices. BellSouth was offering a pioneering service intended to allow data transmission in applications like inventory tracking for rail transport. Its so-called Mobitex network used Ericsson technology, but it still needed a supplier to build a hardware component for consumer use. The opportunity gave Research in Motion a critical test network for its device.

The opportunity also convinced RIM that it ought to seek out a larger market for its new device, known within the company as PocketLink. In 1998, RIM began working with a California-based branding agency called Lexicon. One Lexicon strategist thought the gadget's keyboard resembled the seeds of a berry; the BlackBerry launched in January 1999. Instead of employing a stylus and handwriting recognition software, the device used a small, thumb-operated qwerty keyboard. But as impressive as its physical design was, the truly remarkable thing about the BlackBerry was that RIM provided everything needed to make it work: the device itself, the software that made it run, the servers that routed e-mail from the wired network, and the airtime that RIM leased from mobile-phone carriers. "As first mover in the market, we had an opportunity to build a brand around a new category," said Dave Werezak, vice president of RIM's Enterprise Business Unit.

By mid-1999

Re:Article Text

[Anonymous Coward]

Some interesting edits in there... surprised there wasn't a goatsex link for good measure.

(Yes, I know goatse.cx is long gone).

Re:Article Text

[MattWhitworth]

"coördination of wired and unwired penis."

I know now what you guys mean by the amount of sexual innuendos in that article :)

So Goddamn Lame...

[Anonymous Coward]

This article is so goddamn lame I have no alternative but to respond about how stupid it is. Like, who the fuck cares?

In the beginning

[Anonymous Coward]

Legend has it that when RIM started, they were writing software for a large mobile phone company. They said to the company: "We see a golden opprortunity to include an excellent feature in your phone." The company told them to stick to their knitting. The guys at RIM (being geniuses) decided to create the Blackberry because they knew it would take off.

The RIM guys really had guts and somebody else really missed the boat!

mod dow8

[Anonymous Coward]

risk lloking even may do, may not may disturb other exactly what you've for all practical the NetBSD 0project, Own lube, beverage,

How about a partnership with Microsoft?

[erroneus]

That oughta bring out INSTANT success right?

(muhahahaha!)

My brief encouner with them

[PhotoGuy]

In the early 90's, I talked with RIM about potential employment. They had a low speed external modem using Mobitex (I think) that would hook to your serial port.

They didn't have the "killer app" for it at the time, but were very much in the mode of "let's be smart and figure out a good application for this technology." While that approach can often be puttnig the cart before the horse, they persisted, and it obviously paid off, hitting the sweet spot of using the lower speed bandwidth for the two-way pager-like always-on-but-not-quite-fully-online BlackBerry.

It really is a rare and excellent example of finding the right killer app for a given (and flexible, but seeming limited) technology. Having the technical wherewithal to put that in a small pager-like device (several years ago), obviously shows some real technical talents in their company, too.

Re:My brief encouner with them

[poopdeville]

I too have talked to the cellcos about employment. I'm looking for a RIM job, but nobody seems interested.

Doesn't this make them evil

[MonGuSE]

"Its a great example of how to succeed by carefully making a defacto standard out of a good proprietary technology."

I thought that we were shunning this approach at standards wrangling? Whenever MS or Sony tries this we are against it what is different this time?

Re:Doesn't this make them evil

[MonGuSE]

Oops my bad I forgot Microsoft only makes shitty proprietary technology....

Re:Doesn't this make them evil

[NanoGator]

"I thought that we were shunning this approach at standards wrangling? Whenever MS or Sony tries this we are against it what is different this time?"

The difference is that we like the Blackberry, but we don't like Windows or the Memory Stick. We just babble about standards wrangling because it makes our biases sound like they're based within objective reason.

I'll give you an example: Tabs in Mozilla. Good! Tabs in IE. BAD!

Re:Doesn't this make them evil

[Anonymous Coward]

Whenever MS and Sony do it, there are already established open standards in place that they ignore. The walkman was a defacto standard for a while, but it didn't matter because it was the only one of its kind. But when Sony come out with proprietary music formats and memory formats, it's nothing but pain because they deliberately shunned the open route to the detriment of everybody.

Re:Doesn't this make them evil

[Anonymous Coward]

Everybody tries to do this, even free software projects. The crucial difference is whether you use illegal means. Does this sound like Microsoft:

"If the market is going to 3X, and our market shrinks somewhat, who cares?

Good job

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like RIM did a good JOB.

And how did that first job work out?

[AndroidCat]

Started in 1984 as a firm that built electronic devices for other companies, RIM signed its first deal with General Motors, to deliver a networked display system that scrolled words across LED signs in GM factories.

Odd. In 1988, I worked for a company Vipco/Magic Sign that had a project to design and make networked LED display signs for GM factories... I forget if we were handed a spec to match or what. It sounds like GM moved on to another supplier after a few years. Is RIM padding their résumé? :)

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[Anonymous Coward]

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Re:aw bitches

[Anonymous Coward]

One hour and twenty-two minutes late.

Let me guess; you have a script set up on your PC to inform you of a new story on /. so you can get 'frist psot', but it took 82 minutes to haul your fat, lazy, I-got-this-from-10-stuffed-crust-pizzas-a-day ass down to the basement?

Economic Side of Blackberry

[Fucko]

Do you pay a fixed amount for a month and then you can send all the emails you want or each email you send cost you a few cents? Can you send SMS for free too?

Re:Economic Side of Blackberry

[Zro Point Two]

It's data traffic over the cellular network. Think of it this way...do you get to browse the internet all you want on your cell phone for free? You probably have a data plan that let's you do xKb of traffic a month. Same thing, only difference is that you have to have a BlackBerry specific data plan.

Re:Economic Side of Blackberry

[Tony Hoyle]

The blackberry is (relatively) cheap (although more expensive than a full featured smartphone so I can't see the attraction myself.. The SPV has an Exchange connector, runs WinCE apps and is cheaper than a blackberry by a long way).

The expensive bit is the dedicated server needed to run it. They don't use IMAP or POP or even MS Exchange protocols.. they use some kind of proprietary mail protocol and that has to be licensed from the company that makes them. I'm not sure how much but when it was being costed (and rejected) I heard figures of $20,000/year thrown about.

Re:Economic Side of Blackberry

[Doppler00]

I really hate this about the wireless network providers. It's just another example of them being completely clueless and short sighted.

One plan for WAP service
Another plan for text messaging
Another plan for sending images
Another plan for sending video
Another plan for blackberries
Another plan for PC Card wireless modems

And yet guess what? They all use the EXACT same network resources! The only difference is the device or use.

I really wish they would just stop confusing consumers and just have one cellphone internet service plan. The internet is already designed to support all types of protocols, why do the cellphone providers treat them all differently?

Oh, almost forgot. It's all about profit.

Re:Economic Side of Blackberry

[Anonymous Coward]

ok so "They don't use IMAP or POP or even MS Exchange protocols" well guess you have never used the BES. The protocol that is used for e-mail transport is MAPI and if that aint an exchange protocol I'm not sure what is. And one more thing there is pop and IMAP support also you may want to research befor commenting

Its fine

[tkrotchko]

I have seen it a fair amount in the Washington DC area.

I mean, the technology is interesting, but from an enterprise standpoint, I have a problem with it being "yet another system to set up and maintain". Since the whole thing is proprietary, its not like you can run it from either open sourced stuff or even popular stuff like MS Exchange.

From an end user standpoint, it appears to me like 2-way paging, except that it acts like e-mail. Maybe it resonates with users because it is like a pager. Personally, I can't see typing much on those little keyboards.

But in the end, it seems standards based email over Verizon EV-DO (and other 3G type wireless products) is better just because it doesn't require you do anything special. It doesn't require a proprietary infrastructure, it doesn't require special devices. I think the reason this hasn't happened yet has to do with the wireless carriers unwillingness to really open their network and roll it out everywhere. But that will slowly happen over the next few years. That's why I think the carriers and handset manufacturers have embraced RIM; its convenient, and it can be replaced easily.

I could be wrong, but then, that's the fun part about speculation on /.

Re:Its fine

[rikkards]

True. I believe the Canadian and American Govt are probably the biggest adopters of it. For me, I don't need that much of a leash especially if I was to pay for it. $80 a month just for email and phone on top of my high speed and cable connection nah too much. Cell is bad enough.

Re:Its fine

[Zro Point Two]

its not like you can run it from either open sourced stuff or even popular stuff like MS Exchange.

Uhhhh...what? I hope you are not suggesting that it doesn't work with Exchange. It fully integrates with Exchange (this was the first mail server it was built for).

And as for set up, really it's
- Make an an account with x permissions
- Install the server software
- Add user to the server
- Connect BlackBerry to the desktop to register with the mail server.
- DONE!

Re:Its fine

[tkrotchko]

It does work with exchange, but you have to add more "stuff" to exchange to make it work.

Ideally, the blackberry should look like every other email user in the world out there.

In other words, the middleware (the toll bridge) that blackberry has built is, in my opinion, superfluous. It forces the infrastructure to treat users differently based on the type of end device.

What I'd rather see is the blackberry use existing protocols (Secure IMAP? POP via secure tunnel?)

I'm not blaming blackberry I like their business plan or saying their technology is bad it isn't. The stuff seems to work.

I think the entire device is superfluous.

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[Anonymous Coward]

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rimjob

[Anonymous Coward]

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Microsoft could learn a thing or two...

[duffer_01]

There is good reason why the email client in Windows Mobile 5.0 will not kill off the BlackBerry. RIM has done a great job taking advantage of the network infrastructure. Now if they could just make a device with enough power to run a real application this thing could really take off.

In the UK

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of us have never tried rimming, i cant say i fancy it myself though

They're like Tivo

[bwalling]

The Blackberry is popular because it does what you want it to do without any hassle. Other PDA Email devices suck in comparison. It seems so simple - basically be a live connected email client, but all the others just have ridiculous methods of going about it.

It's the same thing as Tivo. You don't realize how nice the Tivo is until you try the cable company's DVR. Sure, it accomplishes the task, but it's more painful.

Re:They're like Tivo

[daviddennis]

I have a friend who needed to buy a new connected cellphone. We looked at the Treo 650 and the Blackberry.

The Treo was the nicer looking device and had the better display, but its pretty-looking keyboard was horrid to type on, and the user interface for web forms was clunky at best.

The Blackberry really is the best device on the market right now, with the possible exception of the T-Mobile Sidekick, which I have. Unfortunately, the Sidekick relies on T-Mobile's rather questionable network, and that limits its competitiveness.

One analyst in the article says that Asian manufacturers would eventually eat Blackberry's lunch, but that seems odd because I'm almost certain the Blackberry is made by a Chinese contract manufacturer, just like everyone else's stuff. Apple can stay competitive with the iPod designed in California but made in China. I would think RIM would do just fine with the same model.

The Blackberry, incidentally, is cheaper than the Treo and the same price as the Sidekick.

D

Re:They're like Tivo

[bonehead]

To be fair, I think that any of the qwerty keyboards on mobile devices take some getting used to. Having only spent a few minutes in the store with a blackberry, I would way that its keyboard is horrid to type on.

Then again, I had the same impression of the Treo keyboard until I had spent a few days with it. After a few months, I'm pretty much at the "touch typing" point on the Treo. I'm reasonably fast, and only need to look at the keyboard for puncuation.

As for the blackberry being the best on the market right now, that's rather dependant on the users situation.

The Treo allows me to access my work e-mail and gmail accounts with NO changes on the server side, and can also take advantage of all of the third-party Palm apps out there. The blackberry would have required an investment of time and money on the server side to use properly, and the selection of third party apps isn't nearly as broad. These factors made the Treo the hands-down winner for me.

One word of advice for anyone considering mobile e-mail on ANY device: Make sure your spam filters on the server side are up to snuff. If 200 spams are annoying to sort through on your desktop, believe me, it's MUCH worse on a mobile device. MUCH worse.

Re:They're like Tivo

[ink_13]

Actually, it is possible to use a BlackBerry with zero server-side changes as well, if your server supports POP3 or IMAP (so GMail, and paid Hotmail/Yahoo! accounts are also supported).

The BlackBerry Internet Service (which is what gets sold to Joe Sixpack when he goes into the store to buy one) is designed to integrate external accounts (up to 10) seamlessly and with zero hassle.

Server-side changes are only required if you want to use their special server software, which provides native integration with Exchange or Lotus Notes, as well as some other stuff.

Re:They're like Tivo

[bonehead]

Guess I learned something today. Although, that service does appear to be on the pricy side, so I'm still happy with the purchase that I made.

Re:They're like Tivo

[daviddennis]

I dealt with spam by just letting my home computer process my email. The rules I've set up with Apple mail then forward "interesting" messages to my mobile mail account. They actually "redirect" the mail so it appears to be coming from the actual sender instead of my email address.

That's worked just fine for me so far.

D

Re:They're like Tivo

[Zro Point Two]

I'm almost certain the Blackberry is made by a Chinese contract manufacturer, just like everyone else's stuff.

Actually, they are made in Waterloo Ontario (that's up here in Canada eh)....about 500 meters or so from the main core of the campus.

Re:They're like Tivo

[metamatic]

Perhaps you could say what it is that RIM devices do, that my phone with its IMAP client doesn't do using open standard protocols?

I never liked the blackberries

[tzanger]

They're slow, the screen sucks (no touchscreen either), the wheel-only interface blows and, oh yeah, did I mention they're slow? (based on using the older black and white ones, the newer colour ones and the shorter colour ones with bluetooth)

The treo 650... now that's hot. It's a real PDA that sits on the cell network, not a half-assed email client that tries to pretend to be a PDA. Lose the damn camera and it'd be damn near perfect.

Nokia 9000 Communicator

[Anonymous Coward]

http://press.nokia.com/PR/199603/775981_5.html The Nokia 9000 Communicator was launched at March 13, 1996 and has still wide userbase in Europe, I cant see any bright future for RIM. Agreement between Nokia and RIM just allows to owertake RIM-s customers.

Re:Nokia 9000 Communicator

[Kevin Burtch]

That agreement was announced in 2002.

The 9500 came out last year, and the 9300 came out this year... neither support the blackberry protocol, so neither can steal any market from the blackberry.

Remember, the whole reason companies use the blackberry is for encrypted over-the-air pushed email.

That said... I would LOVE to see the 9x00 support the blackberry protocol (as mentioned here, but for unknown reasons moderated "Troll") and would buy one in a second (with my own money) to get rid of the awkward blackberry my company gave me.

But companies are buying it for the email..

[MadAnthony02]

The thing to keep in mind is that most of the Blackberries being sold are to companies, and that they are buying them primarily for the email (and possibly cell phone/direct connect) functions, not as PDA's.

The Treo may be a better PDA, but the Blackberry is a great email device. With Enterprise Server it's easy to set up and manage, and it's pretty intuitive to use.

We've started getting some Blackberries at the college where I work, as sort of a pilot program. I recently got a Blackberry 7220 (Nextel) thru work and am pretty happy with it - except for no longer having an excuse to tell my boss that I didn't get her email

Re:But companies are buying it for the email..

[tzanger]

Sure, but now I've got to carry both my PDA that work wants me to use with the goddamned "email only" unit (that still does email half-asseed well). Give me one unit that can do both, can run the apps we've already developed for Palm, and has a decent cell phone on it. A blackberry and a PDA are just too much bulk to carry around, as both need a decent screen size to be remotely useful.

I hate the Blackberry

[sgeye]

I work for a mid-sized CPA firm, and I have to manage our Blackberries. I have had more problems with them than any other handheld. From parts of the address book being completely lost, both on the handheld and in Groupwise, to duplicated calendar entries, to some accounts simply refusing to synchronize. There tech-support is a shame, every time I call I get the same answer, "Delete the RIM folder under application data." We told our Partners not to get them, but they just had to have them because "everyone else has them so they must work" we showed the examples of people having problems with them, but "that must be isolated." Now since they don't work, it must be GroupWise's fault because so-and-so uses Outlook and it works fine. If you look at the Blackberry Forums there are plenty of Outlook users having issues, and deleting the Outlook profile seems to be the fix-all, thats a pain when you consider 4,000 person address books and 2000 calendar entries. Funny though, one Partner decided to go with the Treo, and I have never had to work on it since he got it a year and a half ago.

Re:I hate the Blackberry

[Zro Point Two]

Does it synchronize after deleting the folder? You know, that one folder that all it does is hold the configuration information...doesn't actually hold the contacts or calendar entries. So who cares if there are 4 entries or 40000.

And if you take a look...it's the same company that makes the sync software for the Palm as for the BlackBerry.

Duplicated calendar entries is usually because of incorrect permissions (note, I said usually, not always).

Re:I hate the Blackberry

[sgeye]

Yes, it still synchronizes, but the problem doesn't go away. Well, the address book one goes away if you do that. But the profile that will not synch still doesn't synch, and the profiles that get dupe calendar entries keep getting dupes. The only solution I found for that is to backup the handheld, whipe it clean, clear out the dupes in GroupWise, then resynch, and restore the autotext/favorites etc from backup.

Re:I hate the Blackberry

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean the execs refused to acknowledge the evidence, but instead parroted vendor propaganda to implement a solution that proved their technological ignorance? That NEVER happens in IT! Blackberry is like a cancer. Once it takes hold of an IT organization the only hope is that your company gets bought out by one with a more intelligent technology strategy (outsourcing IT isn't an answer, outsourcers will let your company continue to use the same crap technology, only at twice the price).

Re:I hate the Blackberry

[Jack Johnson]

I also run a Blackberry Enterprise Server connected to GroupWise in a huge environment. All of my experiences with RIM support have been excellent.

Every issue I have brought to RIMs attention has been resolved and the techs have been happy to give detailed explanations of everything I've thought to ask them.

Re:I hate the Blackberry

[Anonymous Coward]

The difference between Jack Johnson's and sgeyes technical support experience can most likely be put down to: 1. Your attitude when you get on the phone 2. Your willingness to provide the correct information 3. Your willingness to listen to instructions If you get on the phone with a real bad attitude and are more concerned with venting your frustration rather than resolving the actual problem, you're not very likely to get a good response. Techs are human too ;) On the other hand, if you work with the tech you are more likely to get the information (and more) you asked for as well as a speedy fix for your problem. In my experience, the very large shops that I support are a pleasure to deal with - even with 1,000+ users the admins are more concerned with getting everything to work as opposed to just letting me know what is broken and how it's my fault :)

Hooray for not being what I thought it would be...

[Anonymous Coward]

... that being The Autobiography and Complete History of Steve 'Rim' Jobs: /. troll and gifted intellectual

Wow! This guy must have so many friends! I mean, who can forget his immortal tome 'White Power'?!!!

Re:Hooray for not being what I thought it would be

[Anonymous Coward]

Like anybody cares ...

The link seems to have been butchered by a /. HTML submit parser or something. No offence intended 'steve' uid:1027.

The asshole Steve 'Rim' Jobs is located here:
http://slashdot.org/~Steve%20'Rim'%20Jobs/

Too bad...

[Kevin Burtch]

It's too bad they have such an unbalanced feel, and such a PITA keyboard.
Yes, I have one for work (for several months now), and I absolutely hate it.

The user interface needs a lot of work.

The balance is very top-heavy, making it very awkward to type on and hold at the same time. For a comparison, the way you hold a Sidekick/HipTop is extremely comfortable due to the overhang beside the keyboard and the c/g near the center of the keyboard - they're a breeze to type on very quickly and you can perform any function without altering the way you're holding the device.

Using the scroll-wheel requires you to shift the way you're holding it 100% from the typing position, unlike the Sidekick/HipTop. You have to go from balancing it on your fingertips (to type with your thumbs) to holding it in your right hand with your fingers on the left and your thumb on the right.

They don't come with manuals of any kind, not even downloadable! No, I don't consider the intro pamphlet a manual. I am constantly asking the extremely experienced blackberry users at work "what's this for" and "how do you do this" and half of the time they can't even answer my questions!

Overall, I consider the blackberry to be a royal PITA.
It sucks that they have a lock on the technology and are so closed-minded about the user-experience, as I would love to see either the T-Mobile Sidekick/Danger HipTop or the Nokia 9x00 Communicator series support the encrypted protocols so I can dump this awkward POS.

If anyone of any importance at RIM is reading this: Please license the tech for a reasonable cost to companies who make similar devices so the human interface can be improved on. You'll get money from each device sold as well as 100% of the back-end servers/services with none of the handheld development costs! ("win/win/win")

Re:Too bad...

[Kevin Burtch]

OK, so I should have RTFA first.

So if Nokia has already licensed the tech (years ago), where the heck are the devices?
As far as I've read, none of the Nokia 9x00 Communicator series (9210, 9290, 9500, 9300) support the blackberry protocol... if they did I would already own one. (clue to Nokia)

If anyone at Danger is reading this: Please take your form-factor and license the blackberry communication protocol... expand your target market beyond teenagers (you'll find a tremendous number of people in the IT field already are customers that you are neglecting/annoying). You have the best human-interface of any of these devices I've used, but I can't use it for work.

Re:Too bad...

[Zro Point Two]

What do you mean no downloadable documentation?
http://www.blackberry.com/knowledgecenterpublic/li velink.exe?func=ll&objId=8533&objAction=browse&sor t=name

or do you mean from T-Mobile?
http://support.t-mobile.com/productSelector.html?f ormFlow=manufacturerForm&selectProductManufacturer =_77ab8903-1df5-43fc-93f3-7aef59a35ba2

Which manual do you want?

Waterloo

[Luthair]

One thing that isn't mentioned in the article is its proximity to the University of Waterloo. Its one of the world's bestComputer Science and Engineering schools and has a massive Co-Op program.

Re:Waterloo

[Anonymous Coward]

Was not RIM founded by UW students?

If anything, they hire the top UW co-op students to work their for workterms.

Re:Waterloo

[Anonymous Coward]

No, UW is NOT the best CSEE schools around. Not anymore. It mostly produces over-confident and under-skilled engineers with a grossly-inflated sense of their own abilities.

As an employer, I'm pretty sick of having to deal with arrogant UW engineers.

At best, UW is an MIT-wannabe--and badly at that. No where near as cool or as fun.

Misinformation...

[Jack Johnson]

They don't come with manuals of any kind, not even downloadable! No, I don't consider the intro pamphlet a manual. I am constantly asking the extremely experienced blackberry users at work "what's this for" and "how do you do this" and half of the time they can't even answer my questions!

This is just plain incorrect. The 2/3 inch shipping manual and PDFs on the handheld CD weren't enough? The first match from a basic search like "blackberry user manual" on Google was too hard to type? Or was blackberry.com to hard to figure out?

If anyone of any importance at RIM is reading this: Please license the tech for a reasonable cost to companies who make similar devices so the human interface can be improved on. You'll get money from each device sold as well as 100% of the back-end servers/services with none of the handheld development costs! ("win/win/win")

If you had actually read the article you would know that roughly half of it details RIMs plans to do just that.

Re:Misinformation...

[Kevin Burtch]

What mine came with was a pamphlet, no manual of any kind was enclosed in the box. The included CD had only outdated drivers that I was told not to use (we had to download new drivers from the website). I looked around on their website a bit, and asked our resident blackberry specialist - he said they don't have anything more than what's in the box online.

If you had actually read the article you would know that roughly half of it details RIMs plans to do just that.

I did read the article after I wrote that, and even posted a reply long before yours acknowledging that fact.

The end result is the same - the devices I mentioned have a much better user-interface and do not support the blackberry protocol. Nokia licensed the tech years ago, and has released multiple models in the Communicator series, yet none support the blackberry protocol.

Seems we were wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

All this time there are those of us that thought a RIM was a remote integrated multiplexer.

rim 950: the coolest thumb-typing device ever?

[Belfont9]

I owned a RIM 950 for at least three years and haven't stopped looking for a similar gadget since mine broke. All I want is a device that allows me to (i) thumb-type short (but frequent) notes and (ii) allows me to somehow transfer those notes into a PC (preferably using Linux). I'm not really looking for a high-end, camera-&-color-display-included type cell phone: just a simple, portable, rugged gadget in which I can thumb-type and then copy that stuff onto my laptop (rs232, usb, ir, etc all being ok). Is there anything like this out there (other than aging psions)?

nice hardware

[tim1724]

I used to write software for the old RIM 950, back before they introduced Blackberry. It was very nice hardware .. a 286 (or 386, I can't remember) with a few megs of RAM, all running on a few AA (or AAA, again it's been a while) batteries. Oh, and their software was all written in C/C++. And trust me, that was important..

Their competition at the time was the Motorola Pagewriter, which was crappy hardware with even worse software. It was dog slow, and you had to use their weird programming language which took the worst aspects of Pascal and Java and merged them together into something hideous. Oh, and the compiler was extremely buggy. In one version the compiler would crash if you put a comment on the line after an IF statement or something screwy like that.

The RIM was fun to program, though, and if they would give out the SDK for free I'm sure you'd see a ton of software for it.