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AMD Subpoenas to Stop Document Destruction

cyberfunk2 writes "It appears that a court has granted AMD a "no-shred" request with respect to documents related to its' charges of Intel anticompetitive behavior. 9 of the 32 companies subpoenaed so far have said they will adhere to the order. The 9 are Acer, Gateway, Lenovo, NEC, Rackable Systems, Sony, Sun, Tech Data and Circuit City. Others have promised to respond soon."

30 of 141 comments (clear)

  1. What about electronic shredding ? by Arthur+B. · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I guess they have many electronic documents as well... Does the order apply to "not deleting the file". More specifically, how do they intend to enforce this order ! They can't obviously sit and ensure that no shredding is performed or no document is deleted !

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    1. Re:What about electronic shredding ? by rokzy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      the point is that now this order is made, if someone claims they "accidentally" deleted something then they still go to jail. it shifts burden of proof from AMD proving the document was incriminating to other people proving it wasn't.

    2. Re:What about electronic shredding ? by Maagma · · Score: 2, Insightful

      All of these companies have document retention policies and this includes digital files (as well as email!), but most digital files are stored on hard copy anyway. An employee could lose his job for deleting or destroying a file outside of normal document retention policies. In general it is more advantageous to keep files for a short while because it saves headaches of getting that information from a person if the company is involved in a court battle.

    3. Re:What about electronic shredding ? by Alex+P+Keaton+in+da · · Score: 3, Funny

      My wife would be awesome at a document preservation job- she still has birthday cards from her grandmother from 20 years ago, and the movie stub from our first date.
      Maybe these companies could hire armies of "scrapbookers." Imagine all the emails and docs saved artisticly, with cute frills and interesting stamps. Your Honor, the document in question, is the one with the unicorn sticker on it...
      I know Banks have very strict retention requirements, but seriously, who is going to pay for all this storage capacity...
      And is it just a prohibition on shredding? Does that mean they can burn the docs?

      --
      And All I Ask is a Tall Ship And a Star to Steer Her By
    4. Re:What about electronic shredding ? by Foolomon · · Score: 2, Funny

      I guess you'd have to order employees to stop biting their fingernails too.

  2. How Much Paperwork Can a Lawyer Process? by DanielMarkham · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The nature of the complaint sounds awful, and AMD certainly has a very competitive product that Intel is trying to quash. I can't help but wonder, though, at how difficult it is going to be to prove the charges AMD makes, and even if they are proved, by the time years have passed and the judgement is made, the market will be way down the road. Look at the Microsoft browser case: while there was relief granted, did it really make a difference by the time it was given?
    In addition, the sheer volume of paperwork requested (38 companies) indicates that this is going to be huge and take time to prosecute. While that's great for the lawyers, I'm not so sure it serves the interests of their client. Aside from a insignificant (relatively speaking) award and the lawyers getting paid, I can't remember one tech company suing another and actually coming out on top of the market years later. Perhaps they are doing this for deterrence purposes? ie, to keep Intel from continuing its practices during the trial?

    Easy For You to Say

    1. Re:How Much Paperwork Can a Lawyer Process? by cybersaga · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Aside from a insignificant (relatively speaking) award and the lawyers getting paid, I can't remember one tech company suing another and actually coming out on top of the market years later. Perhaps they are doing this for deterrence purposes? ie, to keep Intel from continuing its practices during the trial?

      Remember that AMD's sales are not declining because of Intel, as Netscape usage shrunk because of IE. AMD has been growing, but has seemed to hit a cap, or a block in the road that they can't pass because of Intel's actions. So during this trial, they won't be losing or dying, but they'll simply be at a stand-still. Once Intel's actions are eliminated, AMD will be free to continue growing.

    2. Re:How Much Paperwork Can a Lawyer Process? by Glock27 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Perhaps they are doing this for deterrence purposes? ie, to keep Intel from continuing its practices during the trial?

      Yes, Intel will have to be much more careful since if they engage in illegal practices and the vendor decides to nail them, it will look very bad in court. "Despite ongoing legal proceedings, Intel has engaged yet again in...".

      It'll be interesting to see if there's a perceptible uptick in AMD marketshare after this...

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      Score: -1 100% Flamebait
    3. Re:How Much Paperwork Can a Lawyer Process? by AvitarX · · Score: 2, Informative

      A good Intel lawyer will make sure that it can't happen like that though.

      They will say everythign has to be within the time frame of the fileing date backwards by the statatory limitation on whatever they are suing for (allowing for a little more time soley to establish background).

      Of course AMDs lawyers will ask open ended questions to the defense hoping that someone slips up and opens the window for a line of questions about the continuing practice.

      As to the Grandparents subject, I don't know for sure how much specific lawyers do, but a case I worked where about 13,000 pages were admitted into evidence the lawyers could see something (or hear it in court) and pretty much name a document number that was relevent (there were 1,300+ documents each 10 or so pages).

      In another case with far less admitted into evidence, but with 40 cases of documents produced the expert witness I met had read all 40 cases himself and then re-read about half of it that he deamed sort of relavent and then focused on more.

      The first case was quite large (one of the richest 20 people on the planet was there)

      The other was a realitivly small case that had a large vengance factor (less then $5,000,000).

      So lawyers can handle a lot of paper.

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    4. Re:How Much Paperwork Can a Lawyer Process? by Dan+Ost · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Also, even if the court battle drags on for years and never resolves, in the
      meantime, Intel is pressured to not engage in the types of behavior that this
      battle is about. Essentially, just starting the court battle protects AMD
      from additional actions by Intel that might appear anti-competative.

      It's also free advertising for AMD and hurts Intel's public image.

      --

      *sigh* back to work...
    5. Re:How Much Paperwork Can a Lawyer Process? by I_Want_This_ID · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, AMD has a better product in my own opinion than Intel.

      Open up the advertising for Best Buy or Circuit City or any other retailer that sells computers. How many of the systems do you see containing AMD chips versus Intel chips? Why is it for every AMD computer I see, I see 10 or 20 Intel computers?

      More people ARE buying AMD chips, but AMD is arguing that even MORE people would buy them if Intel wasn't using anti-competetive practices against them.

      As a side note: You and your friends are a great and important segment for AMD, yet they really want to be mainstream and they can't quite seem to leap that hurdle

  3. Re:Check out AMD's misdeed by Trigun · · Score: 3, Insightful

    AMD

    * Outsourcer of jobs to overseas, according to CNN's Lou Dobbs, at a time when huge numbers of US tech workers are unemployed.


    Ooooh, that's a huge misdeed, and I trust Lou Dobbs with my life!

    And from the same link:
    "The purpose of the new capitalism is to shoot the wounded."
    Andy Grove, Intel Chairman
    [leading to monopolies? to cartels? to fascism?]

    * Class-action suit alleging that the Pentium IV is slower than the Pentium III despite Intel's marketing hype. Info here

    * Supported California Proposition 64, which prevents many just lawsuits against corporate criminals. info

    * Theft of $1.969 billion as "tax breaks" from US Taxpayers between 2001-2003, thanks to legally-bribed politicians. Information here.

    * Intel received $300 million in tax breaks from localities over 30 years ending 1993 despite being a major polluter. More information here.

    * Intel was caught in a $600 billion tax-evasion scheme. Info.

    * Intel tried to have an ex-employee Kenneth Hamidi prosecuted for trespassing when he sent emails to former ex-coworkers at their work email addresses. His emails contained criticism of the company. Intel ultimately failed. More info here and here.

    * Intel is currently polluting at Corrales, New Mexico


  4. 'scuse my ignorance by Linker3000 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How can you tell whether an organisation is shredding or not if they do it covertly? After all, if you have something to hide why are you going to worry about someone telling you to stop if you think you can cover your tracks - or is this like the infamous "have you stopped beating your wife?" question?

    --
    AT&ROFLMAO
    1. Re:'scuse my ignorance by mrscorpio · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If they ask for "incriminating document #23521 from 5/6/03" and they don't have it, but have "unincriminating documents #23520 from 5/5/03 and #23522 from 5/7/03", they're fucked and the responsible parties (and their boss, and their boss's boss) will go to jail.

      The point in a document retention policy is:

      1. Having a written policy
      2. It needs to make sense (e.g. that deleting all e-mail after 60 days one in another post sounds a little shady)
      3. It needs to be followed consistently (e.g., these documents are kept for this long and then shredded within this amount of time. Any significant deviation from this is bad)

  5. Waiting to respond by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Others have promised to respond soon.

    Yeah, hang on, we'll send in our response as soon as we're done shredding these last few tons of paper.

  6. Good news for AMD by cybersaga · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Even without Toshiba, or the other 22 comapanies that have not responded or made a decision yet, AMD still has some big guns on their side.

    Those 9 companies are big names and could win the case for them if indeed they have the evidence AMD is hoping for.

  7. "Promised to respond soon"? by Cyberax · · Score: 4, Funny

    Please wait... Here, last document....

    OK, now we promise we won't destroy any more documents.

  8. So difficult to do business anymore. by bigtallmofo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Imagine you work at one of these 32 companies and you're dilligently working on a project that's going fantastically. Suddenly because of some lawsuit that you have nothing to do with and the company only tangentially has any relationship with one of the two parties, you have to stop working on your project so that you can immediately begin a document preservation project.

    I'm not saying AMD isn't within their rights, I'm just making the observation that it's getting so difficult to do business anymore. Bad enough companies have to dodge copyright, trademark and patent infringement cases all day for things they actually do. Add to that cases that they had little or nothing to do with, but they might have some document that some other company sent to them.

    --
    I'm a big tall mofo.
    1. Re:So difficult to do business anymore. by Mr2cents · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why on earth would anyone want to delete e-mail? Mine isn't only preserved forever and ever (unless if it's spam), it's also backed up. You're not telling me you never wanted to search for an old e-mail sent to you a year ago.

      All those thousands of mails won't take up 20$ worth of diskpace.

      --
      "It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
    2. Re:So difficult to do business anymore. by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'd say that is the case here and we are not bothered by AMD's lawsuit. Our managers have informed us of the case and gave the coordinates of our lawyer responsible for it. That's pretty much it, life is normal.

      I can't imagine anyone being sidetracked for a document preservation project. To me this case is good for those 32 companies (unless one is Intel), it will ensure that we continue to get the best prices on our product without being forced into vendor lock in. If only we could find a way to put Microsoft in its place (practically).

  9. We apologize for the inconvienence by Sierpinski · · Score: 4, Funny

    Those responsible for shredding the important documents, have been sacked. ...

    We apologize again for the inconvienence. Those responsible for sacking the people who were shredding documents have also been sacked. ...

    A moose once bit my sister...

  10. No Shred Request? by Evil+W1zard · · Score: 4, Funny

    Man it is totally unfair to not allow them to skateboard during this!

    --
    News Reporters Make Tasty Polar Bear Treats!
    1. Re:No Shred Request? by Belial6 · · Score: 2, Funny

      You can skateboard. Just not well. You are also allowed to play guitar. Just no screaming metal riffs.

  11. Outsourcing is not a 'misdeed'. It's a competitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    necessity.

    Would you rather AMD go out of business?
    Their competition outsources and so must they.

    nntznnr

  12. I Would Assume Many Companies... by geoffrobinson · · Score: 4, Informative

    if Intel is doing what AMD alledges, I would assume many third-party companies resent what Intel is doing. Shred? They may secretly help AMD behind the scenes for all we know.

    They may not want to be held hostage.

    --
    Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
  13. Re:Check out AMD's misdeed by Slack3r78 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Not only that, but the majority of AMD's outsourced jobs don't go to places like India, but rather to Germany, another first-world nation to workers that are making wages similar to, if not better than, those that their American counterparts. Sure, I'd prefer that money stayed at home, but in all fairness, I can't lump sending that money to another country where workers are generally treated a little bit better than the US as far as benefits go in the same category as sending programming jobs to India to save money. Lou Dobbs is a fairly smart guy, but he's got a huge nationalist streak, and it shows in reports like this.

  14. Re:Check out AMD's misdeed by jcr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Outsourcing isn't a misdeed.

    AMD has no duty whatsoever to employ anyone in the first place, and they're perfectly entitled to have work done overseas if it makes financial sense to do so.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  15. What's the Big Deal? by sweetnjguy29 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is a typical motion granted by judges in litigation. The order simply states that the company preserve its documents. The company under the order has to implement certain policies to preserve documents for litigation. That would include not shredding files or deleting electronic files. Keep in mind that questioning the bejeezus out of company executives about how documents are handled is a very effective litigation technique since most large companies, if they are smart, have detailed document retention policies. And most employees don't follow them to the letter. Which looks very bad.

  16. Old Enron/Sprint Joke by sconeu · · Score: 2, Funny


    We told them to "Ship the Enron documents to the Feds", but what they heard was "Rip the Enron documents to shreds".

    It was all just a case of bad cellular.
    </VOICE>

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  17. Dell? by FatherOfONe · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why did they not bother with Dell?

    Is seems obvious to me that Dell is getting something for not using AMD chips. A company that was so open about wanting to build a freaking Macintosh X86 computer would not EVER use an AMD chip?

    So on one hand they will build a computer, that "may" be radically different than any other they have produced, for say 2% of the market, and of that market a large percentage would still only buy from Apple. But they won't use AMD for ANY systems??? I am willing to bet that AMD would make up far more than the fraction of a percentage of their sales...

    --
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