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Fuel-cell Vehicles for Americans
hey writes "An article titled Fuel-cell vehicles run clean, but is their future clear? in the Japan Times says Honda is leasing fuel-cell cars to individual Americans. The article mentions: 'Honda officials said it is easier for the automaker to start leasing in the U.S. because there are more hydrogen gas installations there than in Japan.'"
Erm... Provided noone has ever used such a car in the US before, how's that that there are fuel stations by now? Or am I missing something?
BIG PRICES MEAN BIG HURDLES
Fuel-cell vehicles run clean, but is their future clear?
By KAHO SHIMIZU
Staff writer
Fuel-cell vehicles have been dubbed the ultimate clean car, but whether they can replace gasoline-powered automobiles in the not-so-distant future is an open question.
News photo
A reporter takes Honda Motor Co.'s FCX fuel-cell vehicle for a test spin at the automaker's headquarters in Tokyo. KAHO SHIMIZU PHOTO
A recent announcement by Honda Motor Co. to lease a fuel-cell vehicle to an individual driver and the government's approval last month of fuel-cell vehicles developed by Honda and Toyota Motor Corp. marked significant steps in their 10-year-plus quest.
Experts and industry officials say widespread use of the dream vehicle in the near future is no longer a fantasy, but at the same time they point out that automakers need to clear the remaining hurdles as soon as possible to keep up the momentum.
Last week, American Honda Motor Co. signed a two-year leasing contract with the family of Jon Spallino in California to use its FCX fuel-cell car for $500 a month, making Honda the first automaker in the world to deliver its FCV to an individual customer.
Honda's and Toyota's pollution-free FCVs in mid-June became the first to receive motor-vehicle type certification from the Japanese government, paving the way for mass production and marketing.
"By having individual customers drive in a real-world situation, the carmakers will be able to get feedback, which will be used" to further improve the technology, said Hisashi Ishitani, a system and control engineering professor at Keio University.
"It shows that FCVs can drive like a conventional car, and now they have entered the stage for further technological improvements," he said.
FCVs are powered by electricity generated through a chemical reaction between hydrogen and oxygen, releasing water vapor as a byproduct.
All new vehicles have to gain approval from the Land, Infrastructure and Transport Ministry for public sale. Gaining the motor-vehicle type certification means the FCVs have cleared the government's safety and environmental standards.
Before that, the two automakers had to gain approval on a vehicle-by-vehicle basis, meaning their use was limited to registered parties for the purpose of testing on public roads.
The safety standards mainly center on the technology to prevent leakage of high-pressure hydrogen during collisions and to ensure passenger safety in terms of the cars' electrical systems.
Once its hydrogen tank is filled, Toyota's new FCHV can travel up to 330 km, compared to the 300 km of the previous model, released in 2002, and it has 12.5 percent more output from the motor at 90 kw.
Honda's FCX meanwhile has a range of 430 km and a 80-kw motor output.
Having gained certification, Toyota will start leasing its remodeled FCHV fuel-cell hybrid vehicles this month, mainly to government offices and municipalities for a monthly fee of 1.05 million yen over a 30-month period.
Apart from the Spallino family, Honda has already leased 19 FCX fuel-cell cars mainly to government offices and municipalities in Japan and the U.S. since December 2002 for 800,000 yen a month.
Toyota has leased 16 FCHV in the two countries since December 2002.
Their lease prices reflect the two carmakers' strong wish to attract customers.
"Because the FCVs are so expensive, it will be unrealistic to set the price based on trying to break even," said Yozo Kami, an executive chief engineer at Honda R&D Co. He added that even if it doesn't pay, the pricing reflects Honda's emphasis on promoting its FCVs.
But neither automaker has decided yet to lease their FCVs to individual drivers in Japan.
Honda officials said it is easier for the automaker to start leasing in the U.S. because there are more hydrogen gas installations there than in Japan.
Currently, only 13 hydrogen gas stations exi
Maybe they don't like nuclear because of the lethal crap that hangs around for tens of thousands of years... nah, that couldn't be it...
HYDROGEN IS NOT THE SOLUTION.
Hydrogen fuel cells are more like "batteries", and I think calling them FUEL cells is deeply misleading. We need to do the following, ASAP:
1.Reduce our population (without resorting to war and famine and such like)
2. Stop Using Oil
3. develop a lifestyle that is slower, more decentralised, and a few orders of magnitude more efficient.
Otherwise, we're going back to the caves in 1000 years and just hang out waiting for the next asteroid to take us out or the flu to do us in.
Face it folks: THE PARTY'S OVER.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
I will keep this simple: how about a gas tax that reflects the risks of over consumption? Let's start with a $1.00 a gallon federal applied to the deficit, not road building (a lesser rate on non-fossil, domestic fuels). There are other steps but even this alone would encourage individuals to curb their consumption significantly.
>>oil (and coal) is still the cheapest and easiest form of energy to extract
Tell that to those passing through Iraq in the armed services. Also tax and energy policy is skewed to make it so.
Hydrogen fuel: a pipe dream is a copout, too long term and unpredictable. We needed steps years ago, yet most seem to live in a dream world where it will only become bigger and better. A bit of investment advice: "don't bet the family farm on it!"
The question ought to be, what are we going to power stuff with?
For cars, we're going to power them with whatever has the highest power density. At the moment, that's gasoline. When gasoline becomes a non-option, it will be hydrogen.
if you used them to charge batteries more or less directly, you'd be able to supply the energy for your typical personal vehicle with a relatively small investment.
Have you ever actually seen a fully electric car? The Simpsons joke isn't far off. Affordable batteries are like hauling around a ton of rocks for every tank of gas. Advanced ones are little more than reversible fuel cells.
But if you insist on going through hydrogen, with 70% efficiency in electrolysis, 60% in the fuel cell and losses in compression, you're down to 40% overall efficiency
Electrolysis is more like 90%, and usually even higher. I didn't think fuel cells were up to 60% efficiency yet, but the important thing is that there's nothing stopping them from also being 90% efficient. Either way, though, if hydrogen is at 40% efficiency for the entire process, then it's already on par with internal combustion engines. That's impressive considering the technology is just beginning commercial use.
it becomes much easier to produce it from coal, oil and gas than from most kinds of renewable energy
Easier for whom? Easier for the people whose homes are demolished to make way for the coal strip mines? Easier for the people dying in oil wars? Or easier for the criminal industrialists who profit from said ventures?
What if the global warming nuts turn out to be right? Do you still think that burning hydrocarbons and trying to capture the CO2 will be the most efficient path? Besides, what will we use in 100 years? Surely even the most wide-eyed optimistic American oil-man doesn't think fossil fuels will last that long? Do you want to be the one to tell future generations that we used up all the fossil fuels and didn't even attempt to find a replacement?
"I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"