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Apple to Adopt KDE4's KDOM and KSVG2?
Anonymous Coward writes "According to Eric Seidel, Apple WebCore developer, Safari may soon have 'experimental SVG support.' He ported KDE's new DOM architecture KDOM as well as their Scaleable Vector Graphics (SVG) implementation KSVG2 and render tree library KCanvas to WebCore. A new section devoted to SVG is also up on the WebCore site. Does this all mean that SVG will now go mainstream, finally?"
Many technologies first adopted by Apple become standards. Lets hope they can help SVG catch on. By catch on I mean native browser support, not the awful Adobe plugin.
Does this all mean that SVG will now go mainstream, finally?
No. Because it's Apple. If it's on Microsoft, then it's mainstream.
And don't you Apple fans flame me. I'm as die-hard an Apple aopologist as the next fanboi (two laptops, four iPods, and two Airports), but the fact remains that with the exception of iPods and iTunes, Apple isn't exactly mainstream. And I like it that way.
-- I'm old enough to have lived through six different meanings of the word "hacker."
Perhaps I am misinterpreting what you intend, but that is really quite insulting to open source developers.
You are basically saying that open source is only of value when commercialized, and the fact that the KDE project created the implemenations of public standards isn't innovation, but a port of that software to a commercial platform is.
I wouldn't say that these frameworks are or are not innovative. But I don't think that the KDE project needs Apple in order to give it value.
That was not my intention :)..The value and dedication of the OSS community was always there. And as a bonus, even more value is reaped when commercial companies make use of OSS
2B || !2B
No. Because it's Apple. If it's on Microsoft, then it's mainstream.
The question wasn't "is SVG now mainstream", but "will SVG go mainstream". Technologies adopted by Apple tend to go mainstream, so it's a valid question, and one you didn't address.
Your response isn't very insightful, either.
SVG already *is* "on Microsoft". And on Apple, too. You just have to install a plug-in (just like Java and Real and other "mainstream" features).
Mainstream doesn't mean "on Microsoft", it just means it's common enough--that it's reached some threshold of popularity. SVG is "on Microsoft" right now, but it's not mainstream. If Mac users get good SVG support in Safari and web sites start to offer SVG content in greater numbers, SVG will be mainstream. Windows users will, as usual, just have to click the "get plugin" button--they're used to it.
Now that Apple is going to include native SVG support with Safari (assuming this comes to pass), the odds of SVG going mainstream really have increased tremendously.
I disagree--I think the GP got it right. If MS doesn't support it natively, it is not mainstream. Period. It may suck hard, but that doesn't mean it isn't fact. It has nothing to do with critical mass either; it has to do with penetration of implementations. Even if Safari, Firefox and every KDE browser in existence got it native and assuming that everyone who could upgrade did upgrade--it would still represent a marginal user base compared to the countless IE browsers in-use and without the plugin. Rembmber too that MS developed a differing system to SVG.
That said, there is some reason to think that SVG has a chance of going mainstream, but I don't see any reason to think that this will be the touchpoint that spurs the change.
Java, Real, QuickTime, flash, etc, are all "mainstream" and none are built into MSIE.
MS did their own Java. It was bundled since IE4, got kicked with WinXP, was bundled again with WinXP-SP1 and was kicked out again with WinXP-SP1a.
MS once licensed the RealPlayer. IIRC it was during Win95 or Win98.
MS licensed QT (the file format). WMP can still play old (pre-Sorenson codec) QT movies.
MS have licensed Flash. It's bundled with every Windows release since Win98 or something.
Not all of these products are still bundled with Windows/IE, but they were in the past. It surely helped their adoption.
If MS doesn't support it natively, it is not mainstream.
So I wonder when PDF is going mainstream.
I'm just not sure who's going to step up and get people to use it. Most people won't just use a format because it's particularly better or worse than any other - look at how long Real's been around. They need a good reason and that reason only comes with lots of solid backing from some deep pockets.
Who is it going to be now that Adobe's got Flash? I still think that SVG will be the first victim of the buyout.
Dude, you aren't worth arguing with because you think you are right regardless of how little supports your view.
Since one can't really speak slowly on the web in a non-annoying way, I'll instead suggest you read this slowly.
*Your* view is that web standards (in this case, SVG) require native, built-in support in IE to become mainstream. *My* view is that your view is wrong.
It only takes one example to show your view wrong, but I can think of many. PDF, Java, Real and QuickTime come to mind immediately.
This is unassailable. You are wrong.
Perhaps SVG will require IE support for some reason. But just saying, "for some reason" is not enough, just like saying, "Period." is not enough. You actually need to think of a logical, and compelling reason. You have provided none.
Native support for SVG in two popular browsers (Firefox and Safari) would be great. Hopefully the two (three?) development camps - Mozilla, WebCore/KDE - will be able to keep their DOMS, JavaScript interactions, and other related SVG things compatible.
- Jasen.