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T-43 Hours and Counting
An anonymous reader submits "As seen on NASA TV, for the first time in over two years, the countdown clock has started at 6:00 PM EDT for the Wednesday 3:51 PM EDT launch of Space Shuttle Discovery on the first of the return to flight test flights. The launch is not for certain due to weather issues associated with hurricane Dennis. Currently it is estimated for a 70% chance of launch on Wednesday, with the chances lowering later in the week. If you are confused on how T-43 hours equals almost 3 days, perhaps you should read Countdown 101."
What the hell is wrong with your priorities? It's ok if people die if it causes an increase in a budget item?
Why don't you just start advocating killing seniors? All that saved medicare money might buy anther probe!
And as you tread the halls of sanity, You feel so glad to be, Unable to go beyond. I have a message, From another time..
And, um, let's see.
Exactly how much did the NASA budget for unmanned probes increase by after the columbia disaster?
Hmm.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
People die every day. Lots of them. If 7 more deaths means that *real* science can get more money, then I'm all for it.
Especially if that *real* science can do things like find other planets sutable for humanity.
Face it, we need to get to the planets and other stars. This "circle the earth" shit just isn't cutting it.
I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
Excuse me, were you one of the Challenger managers who told the engineers to quit whining and launch or how do you justify saying such crap? Getting an increase in the budget for unmanned probes is not worth the loss of human life. Yes, the unmanned missions should get more funding, but the argument ends there. Don't go tossing in the "it would serve NASA right" garbage. I could almost accept if you said something along the lines of "I wish NASA would look at what they had to go through to get this far and realize what a waste the shuttle is," except for the fact that they already have looked at it and realized it. That's why the shuttle is being retired as soon as the ISS is done. It would be sooner, but too much has been invested in the ISS to have it's completion pushed back another 5-10 years while the remaining launches get redesigned or repackaged to fit on Delta or Atlas rockets.
Frankly, I feel the manned portion of the program could use more funding, too, but only after it has a clearer sense of direction than "let's go to the moon again." Human beings in space create a much fuller sense of purpose and accomplishment than robots, as well as some unique scientific opportunities.
You sir, have set a new low.
You are a fool if you assume that if manned spaceflight is cut off, Congress will just decide to give the rest of the money for robotic spacecraft. They won't. NASA will loose its prestige, and Congress would cut back on the robotic spacecraft missions.
You are also a fool if you assume that if Congress closes down NASA they will automatically divert the funds to feeding the homeless or giving body armor to the troops. Congress doesn't work that way. $17 billion out of $2000 billion will go back into the general account and noone would even notice.
You might also state that the shuttle does not perform any 'exploration' missions. But that would be tunnel-vision. Neither Mercury nor Gemini peformed 'exploration' missions, either. Sometimes you need to build up to a more advanced platform. If NASA wanted to go to the Moon on its first flight it would have been similar to trying to build a nuclear submarine with only wooden ship technology. Engineering platforms are important because you can break up an immensely difficult task into several smaller but achievable tasks over a longer period. Mercury and Gemini showed that a spacecraft could support EVA's, dockings, navigation, etc. Performing all of this on Apollo would have been insane!
So what is the purpose of the Space Shuttle? To build the ISS, of course. The ISS is the very simple version of the spacecraft that will eventually take humans to Mars. It is an engineering platform to determine how we have to build a spacecraft that will allow humans to survive in deep space. It will not be the last space station. The information taken from the ISS will build a more advanced space station closer to the demands needed by the Mars mission spacecraft. After several space stations we will build simple long range spacecraft (like to the L3 and back). Eventually we will perform operations where humans are no longer shielded by the magnetosphere. And then we will go to Mars. From the information from the Moon bases (of several iterations) we will build will help us determine how to build a Mars base. Then we will conduct 'exploration'.
Seems inefficient compared to robotic spacecraft? In a way. But humanity is not just about science. Sometimes science drives us to achieve technology. Sometimes its the other way around. They coexist. It is the destiny of humanity to conquer Mars. It is the destiny of the US to lead the exploration of space. Whether you like it or not, Congress will see to it that this is always true. If China, Japan, ESA, etc. ever appear to be surpassing us in space technology, there will be a boost to NASA's budget so that we don't loose national prestige. Accept it. Robotic spacecraft will supplement human spaceflight, but never replace it.
If someone at NASA is seriously stupid enough to worry about launching on the 13th then NASA does indeed have a problem - hiring stupid people.
You've obviously never worked on explosives then.
That's a bit different. I don't think that's Intel being stupid. I think that's Intel being perceptive enough to recognise the stupidity of others :)
It is the destiny of the US to lead the exploration of space. Whether you like it or not, Congress will see to it that this is always true. If China, Japan, ESA, etc. ever appear to be surpassing us in space technology, there will be a boost to NASA's budget so that we don't loose national prestige. Accept it. Robotic spacecraft will supplement human spaceflight, but never replace it.
Heh heh, perhaps the supporter of the mighty empire should learn to spell 'lose' : ) Perhaps the US will lead space exploration in the next few centuries, but all the evidence points to China, India and an expanded EU being the economic growth areas in the next century, and thus the technological leaders. To be blunt though, who cares? Why all the jingoism? Personally I hope we get over personal rivalries and all contribute a little more together to complementary efforts (not using the ISS as an example : ).
Re Robotic versus human space-flight, while you are correct to point out that humans *prefer* to see other humans exploring, it may be that robots are our first emissaries to the stars for more practical reasons.
They are after all eminently suited to the long periods of boredom and repetitive tasks such trips would entail. The only problem they currently have is reproduction/repairs, but we probably will create robots who can create copies of themselves given the right workshops to do it, at which point they're just as useful as humans, and more reliable, though not as flexible in unforseen situations.
The shuttle is really just a drain on NASA's resources now and is clearly not the future of space-flight, however it's impossible to cancel because of national pride. It's just helping to contribute to the huge US deficit.
yea.....I also remember them providing a multicast feed of NASA TV to the Education/Research community. That feed mysteriously dissapeared years ago. Now the only way to watch it in high quality (NOT WEBSTREAMING) and multicasted is via the University of Oregon...why NASA does not do this themselves is beyond me, it's not like they could'nt throw up a multicast feed in Mpeg-1 in say 20 min.