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Ambiguity Drives Google's Valuation

BreadMan writes "The Economist has an article about how Google uses its amorphous positioning to gain investor interest. At the current valuation (the P/E is north of 110) this is a winning formula, but the article questions the long-term soundness. The reporter was chagrined that the last press tour focused more on the CFO (Chief Food Officer) and the monthly pasta consumption (500 lbs) than products or financial performance of the company."

13 of 297 comments (clear)

  1. Proven innovation drives it... by garcia · · Score: 5, Insightful

    IT IS hard to know whether to be impressed, suspicious or amused.

    Combine such evidence of frenzied activity with mysterious secretiveness, and the imagination is liberated. A Google web browser? A Google operating system? All the world's information? World domination? Buy, clearly.

    What is so hard to understand? Google, in a relatively short time, has been able to come to market with some amazing pieces of software that are stable, useful, and free even in their "Beta" stages.

    I can't say that for plenty of other companies out there with huge market value... Some of those companies released "final" products that were little more than "Alpha" quality software that we tested for them on our own dimes for 15+ years.

    Google, secretive or not, is producing good software at an alarming rate (yes, alarming is the word to use here) and at this time should be invested in. While I don't write for the Economist, it's pretty obvious to me that it's not Google's "ambiguity" driving its value, it's Google's proven track record which is getting people interested.

    What's a couple thousand dollar gamble for most people that might have missed Yahoo's rise to fame and fortune? Knowing what Yahoo was/is doing and how that compares to what Google is doing now shows that this might be a better bet and people are willing to sink that cash into it.

    1. Re:Proven innovation drives it... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Google, secretive or not, is producing good software at an alarming rate (yes, alarming is the word to use here) and at this time should be invested in. While I don't write for the Economist, it's pretty obvious to me that it's not Google's "ambiguity" driving its value, it's Google's proven track record which is getting people interested.

      The rate of software development *is* alarming to investors. Investors are primarily concerned with making money. The problem with Google's business model is that the "making money" part is very hard to nail down. It's definitely there, but it's always very clear how it works on existing software. Upcoming software is even more nebulous, especially given the fact that Google doesn't necessarily know themselves.

      *That* is why Google has to be ambiguous. If they don't, investors will start demanding hard (read: easy to understand) money making products. As long as Google is a black box that grows money, however, the investors are happy.

    2. Re:Proven innovation drives it... by nubnub · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This was insightful? What's a couple thousand dollar gamble for most people that might have missed Yahoo's rise to fame and fortune? Knowing what Yahoo was/is doing and how that compares to what Google is doing now shows that this might be a better bet and people are willing to sink that cash into it. Tell that to anyone that bought Yahoo! in 1999. Or 2000. Investing is about realizing gains, not about buying into something cool. A PE of 110, and the absolutely absurd market valuation Google has in a market with no barriers to entry is a really bad investment.

    3. Re:Proven innovation drives it... by Iriel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree completely on a personal level with the quality of Google's little magic shop of products, but some companies are less concerned about satellite imagery. There are plenty of companies that appear on Google Ads and also spend an incredible amount of time and money (to third parties or employees) to find a way to reach that highly prized Google PR of 8 or 9 even, because nobody completely understands how it works. All they know is that they want to be the number one result on the number one search engine.

      While this money spent on SEO isn't going to Google, it certainly drives a good amount of other business. I think the innovation drives Google, but it's ambiguity is what drives several other markets, and that impact shouldn't be ignored when some parts of the internet business still haven't recovered fully from the .bomb

      --
      Perfecting Discordia
      www.stevenvansickle.com
    4. Re:Proven innovation drives it... by Golias · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What is so hard to understand? Google, in a relatively short time, has been able to come to market with some amazing pieces of software that are stable, useful, and free even in their "Beta" stages.

      That third thing is what has people so puzzled. Google's most popular offerings are "free as in beer." Yes, their search tools are so popular that they are getting embedded into operating systems and browsers, but another company could come along any day now with something better and displace them just as quickly as they displaced Yahoo. For that matter, an OS company (Microsoft or Apple) or a browser team (Mozilla, Opera) might just decide that they are better off putting out their very own superior search tools as a way to set their product apart from the competiion, and the right innovation for filtering out sites who cheat their way up the Google rankings could easilly result in stealing a lot of market share away. It's hard to lock "customers" in to a free product.

      Gmail seemed like a really cool idea for about 10 minutes, until everybody suddenly remembered that we don't care about web-based e-mail.

      I look at Google and ask myself, "how are they actually going to be making money in ten years?" It's hard to come up with any kind of solid answer.

      I could totally see wanting to invest short-term in Google, simply because the waves of hype are probably going to keep their price going up for a while, allowing you to play the "greater fool" game for fun and profit. But long term? Meh. I like a lot of things about the company, but I wouldn't bet my Roth IRA on it.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    5. Re:Proven innovation drives it... by abb3w · · Score: 3, Insightful
      *That* is why Google has to be ambiguous. If they don't, investors will start demanding hard (read: easy to understand) money making products.

      Back in days of yore, Bell Labs and GE R&D did a lot of random research. Not a lot of what they researched made big money. Not all of it even ended up making money for the company that did the research-- many things fell by the wayside, and were picked up by others. But enough things made big money that they fed back into keeping the company profitable.

      Google seems to be working in a similar mode. The good news is, this can make big bucks. The bad news is, there's a narrow operating region where this sort of thing works. But it's also very easy to kill. Investors who get too greedy and want to "focus on results", license-obsessed legal teams who think they should milk every dime out of every development instead of letting others who are willing to make innovations profitable also get rich by working really hard, managers who don't understand that if the guy who spends all but two days each year staring out the window admiring the birds also comes up with a billion dollar idea each year on those other two days then they should let the fucker STARE.

      And it can be killed at the other end: employees who begin (or start of by) thinking the perks are the point instead of the work; the difficulty in thinning nice people who are not only unproductive but who distract the productive; the problems in maintaining a culture with staff who produce nifty shit, instead of just turning food into shit; and the difficulties of figuring out which ideas are billion dollar babies that should be kept in-house, which are multi-million dollar babies that should be licensed, and which are nifty stuff that you don't see what it's good for, but that you figure someone ought to be able to get rich off of it after enough work-- that you should let go.

      They need to do three things:
      1) Keep hiring brilliant people.
      2) Keep the culture focused on invention and innovation, instead of slothful, litiginous, or short term payoff obsessed. This includes workers, managers, and stockholders.
      3) Periodically identify ways to make some money off of some of what they're doing.

      What they might do, if really clever, is hire some sociologists and specialists in the history of technology, have them go around and do cultural studies of successful and unsucessful innovation centers to try and isolate important factors, and try to figure out how to subtly encourage a culture that will continue to innovate, rather than turn and stagnate. Make a couple small spin-off research groups, and field test the ideas THERE, so they don't screw up the main company.

      And once they isolate the formula,Pinky, they can proceed to take over the world!

      --
      //Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
  2. Google is people not products by cyngus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Perhaps reporters are looking at things the wrong way. The reason for Google's success and break neck product generation pace is the people that work for them. Maybe you should be more interested in their habits if you want to know where Google is going. More to the topic of valuation though, Google is highly valued because their growth is tremendous, their has been almost no growth deceleration, and they generate huge amounts of cash. I believe they are on course to generation $1.8B in cash this year, something very, very few companies can say. Is it worth what the stock is trading for? Clearly, no one knows, but many think it is. Google's growth will start to level at some point, but the thing is that when you're growing this fast, slowing growth down only a little later (or earlier) is going to make a big difference in absolute sales or profit numbers. So, timing of the leveling off is crucial, but almost impossible to predict.

  3. The CFO is more important than quarterly numbers. by team99parody · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The reporter is missing the point and Google is correct that thier culture (of which the CFO is but one case study) is much more important than the current quarter's results.

    Google success has nothing to do with Q4 2005's financal statement (it has enough short-term cash), and everything to do with keeping the talented engineers it hired and keeping them motivated to outperform MSFT in the long term.

    For this goal, the Chief Food Officer is infinitely more imoprtant than the Chief Financial Officer.

  4. Re:Proven innovation? by GeffDE · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have no idea whether that is supposed to be a joke, or if you are actually living back in 1998. I suppose that an automated advertising service whose gross margins are as close to 100% as you can physically get is not at all profitable. Or that Google's profits are larger than Time-Warners means that nothing that they make is profitable. On the contrary: Google uses its simple, old technology as a massive cash-cow, that coupled with its killing in selling stock, is funding the development of "un-profitable" innovations. Except that those innovations are profitable. How can they be profitable if they are free as in beer? Because in Google's revenue model, the end user is NOT the customer. The sheer mass of end users is what makes Google so attractive to the customer: companies who need to advertise. Google's innovations expose end users to Google's customers more and more because end users use Google's nifty, useful innovations.

    --
    It has been a nervous year, with people beginning to feel like Christian Scientists with appendicitis.
  5. Re:Overvalued Stock -- by drtomaso · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Theres also another way to look at this. P/E is defined as "a stock's market capitalization divided by its after-tax earnings over a 12-month period, usually the trailing period but occasionally the current or forward period." (investorwords.com)

    Thus, we can think of it as such- how many years would it take Google to buy back all of their outstanding shares at the current market price assuming their earnings stay fixed? Right now the answer to that question is 120 years. Do you honestly believe GOOG will exist in 120 years?

    Of course, this argument assumes their growth stops and doesnt decline. YMMV. Thats why the parent poster's comparisons to similar tech companies is so poignant. During the "pop" of the internet bubble, companies with P/E of over 70 suddenly lost as much as 97% of their value (assuming they survived at all). GOOG is closer to double that.

    Innovation, nor expertise is driving GOOG up. It's 100% pure unadulterated hype. A P/E of 120 indicates a massive market inefficiency. Unfortunately for the good people of Google and its investors, the market has a nasty way of correcting itself, eventually but never-the-less inevitably. The real losers of the Dot-com days were the investors who fooled themselves into believing that rule didn't apply to them.

  6. Re:Proven innovation? by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "The people who have bought it don't have the voting rights as the insiders. They can't even vote those clowns out of power."

    This same structure also allows the company to focus on long-term growth, instead of having to worry about frequent changes in power due to shortsighted investors. It's the best of both worlds, IMO...a publicly traded company that's managed like a privately held one.

  7. Re:The CFO is more important than quarterly number by BewireNomali · · Score: 3, Insightful

    google doesn't sell software dude. they give it away for free. thus they don't really compete with MSFT. Also, because they don't do formal releases, instead opting for "soft" releases forever in beta, they obfuscate issues about the quality of any product other than search.

    also, they engage in all of the practices that MSFT does: they find small companies with interesting pieces of software, determine how value can be added to search and then buy those companies out. It's exactly what MSFT did.

    In regards to innovating, for the most part, they don't even innovate. Their one true innovation is the excellence in search, but for the most part, they enter niche markets where software companies are trying to eek cash out of products, buy them out and release the shit server side for free. Always in beta, and always for free.

    Or like GMAIL, offer more for less. Here's a gig of space. Make it seem exclusive even though it's not. Better targeted ads and a group to experiment on endlessly. I often know the content of my emails by looking at the ads before I read them.

    And your point about not mattering re: short term and long term investors... is that a joke? Page, Brin, and Schmidt together own about 10 billion worth of stock in a company with an 80 billion market cap. They probably don't even get called on when they raise their hands at the board meetings. You better believe that they care about quarterly earnings, especially if MSN and Yahoo start actively undercutting Google's only consistent source of revenue, which they both can afford to do.

    Re: the importance of the chef. LOLOLOLOL... ummm, I don't know, dude.

    --
    un burrito me trampeó.
  8. Re:Overvalued Stock -- by The+Mayor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This approach of measuring corporate valuations is called FCF (Free Cash Flows), and should be based upon free cash flows, not on dividends. It is very commonly used in the investment community, and shows a *much* higher confidence factor when compared to actual valuations than either trailing or leading P/E valuations.

    Looking at http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ae?s=GOOG we can see that Google currently has a trailing P/E of about 121, but a forward P/E of around 46. That forward P/E really is not too outrageous for a company in a high-growth phase.

    Take a look at the FCF calculations and you can see that Google may even be undervalued, depending on your estimates of future growth and profitability. Google has shown fairly consistent gross profit margins, and improving operating profit margins as they have grown. Furthermore, they are showing a growth rate of >40% per year in revenue. If they can maintain that for 3 years, then reach a steady state in growth & profit margins, their $300+ stock price is actually fairly valued. If they can exceed that growth, sustain the growth for longer than 3 years, or improve their profit margins, then an even higher stock price is warranted. Remember, stock valuations aren't based upon what the company did in the past, but what investors think will happen in the future.

    Given that, I think everyone here has missed the boat. Their search engine is wonderful, and drives a lot of their business. But remember that ad sales from their search engine accounts for only about 1/2 of their revenue. The other 1/2 comes from Ad-sense selling to other websites. If Microsoft releases a magical search engine that manages to steal 100% of Google's search engine business, Google still would only lose 1/2 of their revenue. Based on their profit margins, I would bet they would be able to remain profitable in the event of such a change, too.

    Google is an advertising company. They make money by driving traffic to their (free) web sites, and by selling their superior ad technology to other websites. For all that everyone may hold Google's search engine technology in high esteem, their targeted advertising is equally impressive. Combine this with the multitude of data streams they have to collect information about the visitors to theirs and other websites that use AdSense, and they have a killer product that cannot be matched easily by any of their competitors.

    $300 is a fair valuation. Anyone using P/E ratios to demonstrate that a company is either over- or under-valued is, imho, a moron. P/E ratios don't capture growth rates, and don't reflect the amount of free cash flow a company can generate. In the end, it is free cash flow (and not profits) that drive a company's worth. It is very difficult to "cook the books" with respect to cash flows, also, so FCF valuations will be more immune to Enron-esque bookkeeping, too. Don't believe me? Look at the FCF generated by Enron in 1996-2000. The writing was on the wall then. And, the writing is on the wall now with Google. Google is a sound company with a killer business plan. Furthermore, they have an excellent record at execution that I believe indicates they will be able to sustain their growth for a long time to come.

    --
    --Be human.