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Look Ahead To Women in Games Conference

Posted by Zonk on from the scotland-is-a-lovely-place dept.

The Guardian Gamesblog has a look ahead to one of the two conferences to be held in Edinburgh this August. In the first look at the Women in Games conference, some of the headlines speakers share what their expectations are for the event. From the article: "It is not enough just to get more women making games. Game developers have long tended to make games for themselves, and the problem is that they are an atypical audience. This will be true of women too...The kinds of women who want to make videogames are rather different from the kinds of women whom I hope to attract as consumers. I'd like to reach out to female consumers who don't have any interest in making games, and just want to play them. That means thinking beyond the female developer to the female customer."

29 comments

  1. Women in Games Conference by CaseM · · Score: 0, Troll

    Sign me up. Then I can bitchslap Lara Croft for starring in that shitty movie.

    1. Re:Women in Games Conference by centauri · · Score: 1

      Ah Slashdot, where there are two kinds of movies: "brilliant" (aka "anime") and "shitty."

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Durga.
    2. Re:Women in Games Conference by CaseM · · Score: 1

      Wow, I see some of you guys must have really loved that movie. Sorry to offend! :P

    3. Re:Women in Games Conference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Naw; you just spoiled someone's wet dream is all.

  2. Not a new concept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    There've been women in games since at least Strip Poker on the C-64 in the early 1980s, along with Interlude for the Apple ][. Then Leisure Suit Larry broke new ground . . .

    ~~~

  3. Developers in general aren't normal! by okc0r · · Score: 2, Funny

    I work at a software company and the girls who work here aren't your "typical" girls in any respect... but then again I guess by any standard of normalilty none of the guys that work here fall in that category either :) Make me a game that my girlfriend can sit down and play with me and i'll be a happy man. Well.. unless she it's single player and she won't let me play!

    1. Re:Developers in general aren't normal! by ZephyrXero · · Score: 1

      Well the problem is people keep making games they think 12 year old girls will want to play and that's not what most women want..lol. Women tend to enjoy a lot of the same games as men, they just tend to shy away from the overly violent/action oriented games, just like with movies. They're more interested in compelling characters and good stories more than things like that. Games where you get to be creative also tend to apeal more to women too... It's really not as hard as most people make it out to be.

      --
      "A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
    2. Re:Developers in general aren't normal! by ShibaInu · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it isn't the games themselves but more the gamer mentality that doesn't appeal to women. It seems like gamers get into pissing contests about which FPS is the best or which video card rocks harder.

  4. The Problem isn't "women", it's "people" by EvilMagnus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The barrier that's preventing more women from playing games is the same thing that's keeping a wider audience from computer games - they're perceived as childish passtimes. I have a sister-in-law who is perfectly normal and intelligent (holds two advanced degrees) who absolutely refuses to play computer games - calling them 'childish' and 'a waste of time'. She'd rather spend her time partying, mountain biking or watching TV.

    Part of this is a perception problem, sure, but she's otherwise a perfectly well-adjusted, 'normal' member of society.

    It will take many more years for the stygma of computer games to erode and for them to be seen as a socially-acceptable passtime on equal footing with watching TV.

    --
    -EvilMagnus
    1. Re:The Problem isn't "women", it's "people" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So why don't you crack open a copy of Tomb Raider or Dead or Alive Xtreme Volleyball and prove her perception wrong?

      Also, you are overlooking the possibility that games (most of them anyway) _are_ a childish waste of time.

    2. Re:The Problem isn't "women", it's "people" by grimharvest · · Score: 1

      Or you could convince her that videogames are actually therapeutic, a sensible way of releasing tension, frustration and stress...better to take out your Road Rage in Burnout 3 than actually Speed Racering people over cliffs in the real world...

    3. Re:The Problem isn't "women", it's "people" by EvilMagnus · · Score: 1

      Believe me, I've tried.
      She's normally a very logical person. But logic does not work here - the stygma of 'computer games are childish and not something a Responsible Adult does' is too strong.

      I'd really like to hook her up with another friend of mine who's a Many-Lettered Psychologist so they can chat about that. But they're on different continents, so I don't see that happening any time soon.

      --
      -EvilMagnus
    4. Re:The Problem isn't "women", it's "people" by realityfighter · · Score: 1

      Hmm... As someone who comes from a family of female gamers, I have to speculate that her perception of video games might have less to do with her gender and more to do with those two advanced degrees she holds. I realize you said as much in your post, but I felt it needed reiterating.

      As for what's keeping "normal" people from playing video games, I think it has a lot to do with the perception that play requires a lot of specialized knowledge and they will be punished harshly for losing (a reasonable assumption considering "n00b" is a common gamer insult.) I don't doubt that a lot of people think the way your sister-in-law does, but I more often see people say, "I don't want to play, I'd be bad at it."

      --
      A strain of paranoid prevention can be worse than the disease, whate'er the intention.
  5. Error in article text by ctid · · Score: 1

    The Women in Games conference is in Dundee, not in Edinburgh. This is the conference page.

    --
    Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
  6. wtf? by oblivionboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Game developers have long tended to make games for themselves, and the problem is that they are an atypical audience.

    Actually I work for a major video game company, and I know very well that video game companies DON'T make games for themselves. Video games are a business, and lately a very serious one at that. I was recently talking to the big guy here in charge of releasing games (the chief editor you might call him), and I asked him where new games and ideas come from, how did they decide on things. Well you know what? It comes from Marketing. Now this is not a surprise, because thats how its done everywhere else too (and yes I'm not saying its a GOOD thing).

    Whenever this topic comes up, being a humanist, I say everyone is equal and you go do whatever you have to do. So men can go run around and push for their stuff, and women can do the same. But don't EXPECT me or anyone else to do it for you. I'm not a feminist, and when women ASK me why not, I basically tell them that because I'm a guy.

    Now the reason I bring all this up, is because I haven't been convinced that there are a lot of women who WANT to play games. There certainly is a vocal minority. And I think that the video game companies know this too. There are ALOT of female produces on our games (out of say eight or nine producers at least four are women), and its not because we're lacking "femaleness" that "female" games aren't made.

    But in staying with the paragraph before last, I say go for it. Go and make your lesbian hot tub racing -- er your bikini lounge---um...well whatever game you'd like to make, and we'll see.

    But don't say that the video game companies sit in a vacuume and make games for themselves.

    1. Re:wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's typical - the usual article complains that what we need is more women making games! When I point out that I'm a woman and I make games and nobody wants to talk to me, they change their story and now say it doesn't MATTER if women are making games because they're just weird ones anyway :) ... okay, I am weird, I'll give you that.

    2. Re:wtf? by lisaparratt · · Score: 1

      You do realise the feminist movement is merely in favour of equality of the sexes, rather than superiority of either faction, right?

    3. Re:wtf? by oblivionboy · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure if your comment was to me or the other poster, but the kind of feminism you are talking about is generally regarded as "Liberal Feminism". There are many kinds, some of which are still active now, some of which more historically so.

      I think the idea that feminism promotes equality, is a bit nieve, and doesn't go deeper into the issue. Its true that on the surface this is what it might look like its try to do -- especially if we consider what facets of it are seen through the media.

      But ultimately what seems to have happened, is that, yes there has been a kind of equality, but only because women by and large caved into male societal structure, and joined it. This I think is very different than what alot of "feminists" were talking about mid-century and even into the 70s. At that time there was a not insignificant movement to bring "female" values into society, to help restructure society in a way, to rebalance it. What appeas to have happened is that women faced men on their own turf in the workplace, in the courts, and other areas of society, and then just stayed there.

      I ask you this question: How would a perfectly balanced female-male society look today? One that combines male and female attitudes, interests and furthers the collective needs of each gender?

      I also ask you this question: If your original objective was to create a society like this, but then you just gave up and became what you were originally fighting against, have you indeed achieved equality? If yes, what is the quality of that equality?

      I see the same thing here with video games. Women are complaining that there are no "women" games. But then women have shown recently that they seem to be quite happy to just take male positions in the work force and continue without bringing whatever it would be that their gender would add to it. Why? Because they don't care? Because its too much work? The marketing manager is a woman, the key market researchs are women. Why are things not "different"? What would different even look like?

      I'm not sure what the answer is.

      I'm not sure anywhere in my original post I suggested anything about superiority. It was about the internal mechanisms by which my company decides to make video games, and how that might relate to women.

      And lastly: I'd like to see what kind of games come from this sort of pow-wow. I know that women think that their games are NOT first person shooter X, or real time strategy Y. But what IS it in fact? I have yet to see an example of one, ONE, game in the industry that just isn't an example of mass market and (more specifically) gender neutral. I submit The Sims, Myst, and (strangely enough) GTA as an example.

  7. ExEx, but no "Why?" by St.+Arbirix · · Score: 1

    the real questions that will be answered are how can the industry create a demand for computer games beyond the traditional demographic of males between the age of 14-24,

    Ok, so that's the "How?" of it. Where's the "Why?" Did we skip that step?

    and what role can women play in this seemingly-epic task.

    Oh, I get why now. It's the money. You mean it might be difficult to suck as much money out of women as they've been getting from men?

    As a male I'm insulted to think women could possibly waste as much money on gaming as the industry has already managed to suck off from men. As a half-assed feminist I'm also insulted that they're using sexual equality to veil an obvious attempt to lure women into blowing loads on video games. They're just trying tap women in order to produce more releases.

    --
    Direct away from face when opening.
    1. Re:ExEx, but no "Why?" by Vermifax · · Score: 1

      "games beyond the traditional demographic of males between the age of 14-24"

      Especially since the demographic is now generally older than 24

      --

      Vermifax

      Logout
  8. Here we go again... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can we go a full week without hearing about women in games?

    I'd be okay with a Katamari triple post if that's what it takes.

  9. Equal opportunities...? by Grab · · Score: 1

    Great, a campaign to get women into software. Equal opportunities is a great thing.

    Now can we look forward to a campaign for men to become nurses, or physiotherapists (our nearest hospital shows no male physiotherapists qualified for the last 5 years - less than 1% representation), or - shock! - stay at home and take care of the kids whilst getting equal rights for paternity leave? Or get equal rights for access and maintenance after divorce? Or even allow boys to be educated in ways that suit them better, so that boys will not be so horrendously disadvantaged at school as they currently are? (If you're a boy at school today, regardless of your intelligence or ability, the stats show that girls will outperform you in every subject except maths.)

    Thought not... "Equal opportunities" sadly means "encourage women to do traditionally male jobs" but has never, in the history of the phrase, meant "encourage men to do traditionally female jobs".

    When I see as much news about boys failing exams as I do about women not being allowed to have children and a fancy house *and* hold down a full-time job (news-flash: kids *are* a full-time job, and you do one or the other if you want your kids brought up properly), and companies are so terrible bcos they won't allow women to work less hours whilst being paid the same - when that day comes, I'll know we've got equality. Until then, fuck "women in games".

    Grab.

    1. Re:Equal opportunities...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *Sigh*

      If you really wonder why most of the focus is on letting women into traditionally male jobs, ask your parents. Or read a history book.

    2. Re:Equal opportunities...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My history books tell me that for the most part women had one set of priorities and men another.

    3. Re:Equal opportunities...? by Grab · · Score: 1

      *Sigh*

      I'm well aware of the history, as are all female "equality" campaigners. Trouble is that that too few of the female "equality" campaigners are looking at the current state of the world.

      Too few women in engineering? Well, do women *want* to do engineering? I've yet to meet a sexist or racist person in 4 years of uni and 10 years of industrial software engineering.

      Women's average pay is lower than men's? Well if you've taken 5 years out of work to look after your kids, you'd better expect to be on a lower wage than someone who's worked those 5 years. If men could take those 5 years out to look after the kids, without suffering immense social stigma, we'd do it. If men could take a year off for paternity leave and still have our jobs at the end of it, we'd do it. But only women get those kind of benefits right now.

      And I'd *really* like to see the plans for the massive male unemployment/skills shortage in 5-10 years time, when a generation of underachieving boys reach the job market with no qualifications. That's going to be a barrel of laughs, right?

      Grab.

  10. Wimmin in games by AliasTheRoot · · Score: 1

    whats with the sudden splurge of articles about women in games? They play games just as much as us, just the ones they play are all called Chuzzle or Sims or something.

  11. Schism by suttree.com · · Score: 1

    There appears to be a huge schism opening up between what constitues a female gamer and what video companies should be doing to attract more gamers.

    The more I think about it, the more I realise that 'casual gamers' is what both sides are talking about. The female gamers who can't find games to play are just casual gamers and the market that games companies are chasing is the 'casual games' one.