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Spyware Removal: Drop PC in Dumpster
morganx writes "The New York Times is reporting that some users prefer throwing out their PCs and buying new ones to actually removing their spyware. Does this mean lots of free hardware for the dumpster-divers among us?"
It just boggles the mind that people would throw out a Windows machine and then replace it with another! Windows machine which is immediately susceptible and commonly infected within twenty minutes or so of being re-connected to the Internet. This happens often even before you have time to install updates. The old fool me once, fool me twice adage comes to mind.
:-) Interestingly in the linked article, Dr. Wong does replace her HP system with a Powerbook. This has been our experience as well. We have replaced most of our Windows based systems with Macs running OS X leaving our Windows systems headless and sitting behind a Macintosh and a firewall with respect to the Internet. For grad student systems, giving them a Mac is the best possible solution. They can download all the software they want, surf the web and write their email all on the same system they use for their data analysis without worry and I'm not getting calls or visits to my office saying "Ummmmmmm. I think my system is infected" Time devoted to troubleshooting has gone to essentially nothing. Additionally, the last meeting I had down in our computer science department revealed that a good portion of the faculty were also switching from Windows/Linux/SGI to OS X. That was encouraging for a whole lot of reasons.
The smarter move would be to migrate to a system that is less affected by worms/virus/security issues. For the vast majority, I would think that system would be OS X. But hey, that's just me. If your time is that valuable that you would simply replace your system rather than wiping it and reinstalling the OS, you think that you would either be smart enough to think different. Of course clicking on the referenced article makes you sit through an ad for Dell unless you dismiss the ad, so what does that mean?
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And I emailed the "editor" telling them it was a dupe a good 10 minutes before it went live.
Hello? [thump thump thump] Is this mic on? Come in, Rangoon...
I think it's pretty damn difficult. As a coder and techie, I cannot figure out how to install Windows XP on my only computer capable of running it. Windows just blue-screens while trying to format the hard drive. I assume it needs drivers for my SATA chipset, since my computer is newer than XP SP2, but my PC doesn't have a floppy drive, space for a floppy drive, or a power cable for a floppy drive. I'm tempted to read up on what kind of power a floppy takes and wire a floppy drive up to an external power source and connect it to the fdc (mobo supports the floppy, power supply doesn't). Oh, and Windows will not treat my usb floppy drive as an A: drive during the install, which is the only place where it will accept drivers from.
Ordinary people getting frustrated is one thing. They lack the right skills. A PhD in computer science is a whole other question.
If it takes 4 hours to totally clean off an severely infested PC, then they might as well get a new PC. If it only takes me two hours, then they're halfway to a new PC. Hmmmm...
Suppose the hard drive fails, and (like a client) they haven't done a backup in a year. Suppose the PC is a 3 year old PIII PC. New hard drive: $60. Time to install Windows ME (or whatever) with all the drivers: at least an hour, but probably two. Cost: around $150 or a little more for a 3 year old PC. (Add more for software installation and network setup, and I do.) Again, that's halfway to a modern PC that is much faster, has a warranty, and has XP preloaded.
Not that I wind up going hungry when the client gets a new PC: there's still networking, data transfer, and software installation and setup that needs to get done. But the cost of new PCs has really changed the cost-benefit of fixing versus replacing.
Of coruse, the best part is when the client says, "Oh, and just take away that old, 'broken' PC. It is of no use to me now." Away it goes with me, because my time is free to me...
And don't forget, my rates are CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP compared to visits from The Geek Squad. If a consumer has to go through them, then the math in favor of a new PC gets even stronger...
I can't say I'm wild about this situation, but at least you can see why we're here at it.
You want people to return their PCs to factory defaults so that their PCs just get infected again while you takes hours to download all your Windows security patches? Not bloody likely. Are you being serious, or do you work for a spyware company?
It's far simpler to buy a new PC that has a year or two's worth of security patches already in place -- less for you to download. My uncle has already replaced one PC because of spyware. He's on a dial-up connection. He's not going to sit for hours upon hours so his old PC can reinstall security patches.
As a memeber of the Geek Squad, I must say you make some interesting points. Mostof our business is removing spyware and viruses from machines, which, most of the time, is pretty easy. It does take us a long time though (running a lot of scans, and testing the PC to make sure it's ok). Generally, at our Best Buy store anyway, you can expect to pay $59 for a diagnostic (which basically includes runing memtest86, some DFT, Lucifer, making sure your optical drives operate, and scanning for spyware and viruses), plus $79 for "OS service" (spyware & virus removal, a repair install if necessary + removal). Not really that bad of a deal for the average user really, who really wants his or her machine back, "exactly" how it was "before". We try to tack on NAV2005 or NIS2005 ($49.99 + $10 install/update, $59.99 + $10 install/update, respectively) and Webroot SpySweeper ($29.99 + $10 install + update). As absurd as it sounds, a lot of customers believe they can not install software, and trust us to do so. The prices for in-home worst is a bit higher of course, but brining your machine to a Best Buy or GS store isn't such a bad idea to most customers. And believe me, I recommend plenty of customers just buy a new machine (cost exceeds value).
We are all Gods unwanted children. Did you ever consider he may hate you too?
I think that might be the editors' intention- to let people that missed an article the first time around have a shot at reading and commenting on it. Now, perhaps if they would post and LET PEOPLE KNOW that that was their intention, repeat articles wouldn't get flooded by 100 "It's a dupe" posts.
Slashdot public opinion seems to be moving a bit in favor of the "It's a dupe!" crowd...Not that they're the majority, but where I saw -1 Redundant on all of the "dupe" posts a few months back, I'm seeing not only positive, but +4 and +5 moderations. If the editors are posting repeats with a plan in mind, they should say something, because it's obvious that a lot of people are regarding it as a problem.
They have several... They are called "Subscribers". I have done by job multiple times and been thanked by the editors via e-mail at least a handful of times... Yet there have been just as many (if not more) times that I have submitted the story as being duped and it has been ignored.
:)
So, we are paying to do their jobs *and* we are being ignored.
It's almost as good as being a Union employee!
And how the hell do the "unreplacable" programs get transferred from their old spyware-infested piece of crap to their new $299 piece of crap eMachine?
The same problem still exists.
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
I tell my customers after a 15min. glance (free of charge), that they have 2 options:
:)
:)
1) I clean it there (provided they have dsl), and it will take anywhere from 2-6 hours and after that it may still require a 2hr. re-install of the OS.
OR
2) I take it to my shop (where I can work on it and others and play Quake), and charge them a 2hrs. labor flat fee.
Most choose 1, i don't know why I always recommend 2, because, hey, I love my Quake...
When the bill is in the range that they could have gotten a new computer, they realize their mistake. However, I do set them up with a spyware blocker, MS' Official, Firefox for browsing (with a 5 minute WOW tutorial), and recommend them switching to Thunderbird for email, and recommend they purchase Norton for Anti-Virus (or update).
(And yes, for most of them IE is their ISP... not kidding, 'I pay SBC, but Internet Explorer is my ISP...right?').
I do what the customer asks, and when I point out that they are asking for the incorrect thing, they get indignant and demand their ignorance! So I provide them with that for which they ask.
I have also had some who say 'Can't I just get a new computer and give this one to the kids?', why yes... or you could just have me get your data backed up, restore the os, and you can have it all back good as new for 2 hrs. labor... "NO, I want a new one", and so it goes.
I got a free 1ghz. laptop that way, customer got angry said get my data off it and throw it in the trash. Passed my K6-500 compaq Lappy to my son,(Mepis 3.3.1), running good, and I get the new trash
Saving data costs money and most people want that done even though they do not/will not do it before they have problems...
What part of,"An emergency on your part does not constitute one on mine" do you not understand?
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips