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Spyware Removal: Drop PC in Dumpster
morganx writes "The New York Times is reporting that some users prefer throwing out their PCs and buying new ones to actually removing their spyware. Does this mean lots of free hardware for the dumpster-divers among us?"
I wonder why it is cheaper to buy a new $400 PC than paying top rate of, say $100 per machine, to get someone to insert the recovery CD and get everything back to factory defaults.
I find people disposing affected PCs highly irresponsible. Would someone think of those homeless children who dumpster-dived and brought home (or somewhere whatever) such PC? It's like throwing out old smoke alarm with perfectly good Uranium bits inside, someone's going to get hurt.
The friendly article mentioned that "people are increasingly unwilling to take out their 'software tweezers' to clean their machines", maybe it's time for manufacturers to install a HardReset button (like in a PDA) with a 1 GB ReadOnly Flash drive, which resets everything back to factory.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
Drop timothy in the dumpster... along with Zonk, Taco, etc.
It just boggles the mind that people would throw out a Windows machine and then replace it with another! Windows machine which is immediately susceptible and commonly infected within twenty minutes or so of being re-connected to the Internet. This happens often even before you have time to install updates. The old fool me once, fool me twice adage comes to mind.
:-) Interestingly in the linked article, Dr. Wong does replace her HP system with a Powerbook. This has been our experience as well. We have replaced most of our Windows based systems with Macs running OS X leaving our Windows systems headless and sitting behind a Macintosh and a firewall with respect to the Internet. For grad student systems, giving them a Mac is the best possible solution. They can download all the software they want, surf the web and write their email all on the same system they use for their data analysis without worry and I'm not getting calls or visits to my office saying "Ummmmmmm. I think my system is infected" Time devoted to troubleshooting has gone to essentially nothing. Additionally, the last meeting I had down in our computer science department revealed that a good portion of the faculty were also switching from Windows/Linux/SGI to OS X. That was encouraging for a whole lot of reasons.
The smarter move would be to migrate to a system that is less affected by worms/virus/security issues. For the vast majority, I would think that system would be OS X. But hey, that's just me. If your time is that valuable that you would simply replace your system rather than wiping it and reinstalling the OS, you think that you would either be smart enough to think different. Of course clicking on the referenced article makes you sit through an ad for Dell unless you dismiss the ad, so what does that mean?
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And the dupes they just keep a coming.
I'm typing this from a dumpster right now. Thank you, spyware.
Do you really think the kind of person who (1) lets his PC fill up with spyware, then (2) chooses to spend $500 on a new PC instead of spending a couple hours cleaning it out, is going to want to learn Linux?
"OMG WTF happened to My Computer? Where's Internet Explorer? Why do I have to have a password?"
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
I'm quite shocked to see so many dupes posted all the time. Do the editors scan the stories being posted, at all? They seem to be so unaware of what is already posted... the worst cases being dupes occuring on the same day (not this story).
Seriously, I think that given that Slashdot has become so big in terms of users, the editors need to be more serious about making sure dupes don't happen... if the editors are too busy, appoint a dupe editor who will catch the dupes before they are posted. All it requires is for the dupe editor to do a search on Slashdot to see if a story has already been posted...
And I emailed the "editor" telling them it was a dupe a good 10 minutes before it went live.
Hello? [thump thump thump] Is this mic on? Come in, Rangoon...
It's Americium-241.
For more info on americium, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americium
500GB of disk, 5TB of transfer, $5.95/mo
Objection, Your Honor! Assumes digital media not in evidence!
Last I heard, MS was prohibiting OEMs from shipping recovery CDs. That hard drive is all you get.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
Ordinary people getting frustrated is one thing. They lack the right skills. A PhD in computer science is a whole other question.
I have several customers who have migrated to Linux for similar reasons. They are all beginner consumers.
The problem largely is that tech support people treat consumers as idiots incapabile of learning the system. I usually start by explaining spyware, how it gets on your computer, how to avoid it/prevent it, etc. Then if it continues, I start suggesting Linux. I show them via a demo system how easy it is to use, and they are usually sold on the idea pretty quickly.
Computers aren't that hard to understand if we dispense with the tech talk and actually focus on communicating with the consumers.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Is one of the benefits of being a Slashdot subscriber NOT having to see duplicate stories on the front page?
As a subscriber I can answer this with an authoritive "no fscking way".
You do get to see articles before they "go live" to the hoi-polloi, and you can even e-mail the editor if you think there's a problem with the article (say, if you know it's a dupe from about 48 hours ago).
You can see for yourself just how well this all works out.
If it takes 4 hours to totally clean off an severely infested PC, then they might as well get a new PC. If it only takes me two hours, then they're halfway to a new PC. Hmmmm...
Suppose the hard drive fails, and (like a client) they haven't done a backup in a year. Suppose the PC is a 3 year old PIII PC. New hard drive: $60. Time to install Windows ME (or whatever) with all the drivers: at least an hour, but probably two. Cost: around $150 or a little more for a 3 year old PC. (Add more for software installation and network setup, and I do.) Again, that's halfway to a modern PC that is much faster, has a warranty, and has XP preloaded.
Not that I wind up going hungry when the client gets a new PC: there's still networking, data transfer, and software installation and setup that needs to get done. But the cost of new PCs has really changed the cost-benefit of fixing versus replacing.
Of coruse, the best part is when the client says, "Oh, and just take away that old, 'broken' PC. It is of no use to me now." Away it goes with me, because my time is free to me...
And don't forget, my rates are CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP compared to visits from The Geek Squad. If a consumer has to go through them, then the math in favor of a new PC gets even stronger...
I can't say I'm wild about this situation, but at least you can see why we're here at it.
I would guess most people don't see an OS, they see a computer. When they get pissed at the OS, they are really pissed at the computer. So they throw it away. In their thinking, the Compaq running Windows XP is very different from the Dell running Windows XP. After all, the computer boxes look different.
Maybe people think of their computer like a VCR. If it stops working, you don't get the $2 cleaning fluid tape, you throw it away and buy another.
It is too bad these people don't donate their old computers.
I am a person who believes it is a SCAM when colleges buy bran spanking new computers every 2 years, and use property tax to do it. Whenever I have walked around a computer lab, all I see is Word and papers being written, IE and the web being surfed, and the very occasional comp sci student writing code. All this could be done on PIII's. Hell, PII's would work, although it would take a few minutes to load software.
There is a saying in the advertising world. Don't sell the steak, sell the sizzle. It is a shame, because often people buy hardware they will never utilize. If someone wants to check email, what good is the newest computer? Salespeople don't sell based on your needs. They want to make the largest commision possible, or push whatever product their managers told them to get out the door. And they lie to do it. I was at Best Buy, just walking around. Most of the time, the salespeople in the Computer section are so busy that it is impossible to get one (good thing in my opinion). But this time one saw me, and came up. He said "What computer do you have?". I lied, I did not want a hard sell, I just wanted to browse, so I said I had a P4 2.0ghz with XP. The sales guy said "Oh, I guess that is okay, but if you want the latest security, and more speed, our P4's have XP with the latest security updates, and they will run the latest games better".
The SOB tried to sneak in a "latest secuirty updates" in the middle of his sales pitch, to put a seed of fear in my mind about my current OS. Gee... thanks for saying anyone can download the latest patches. Gee... thanks for trying to sell me an e-machines.
The friendly article mentioned that "people are increasingly unwilling to take out their 'software tweezers' to clean their machines", maybe it's time for manufacturers to install a HardReset button (like in a PDA) with a 1 GB ReadOnly Flash drive, which resets everything back to factory.
Oh God NOOO!!!! Please, no! These assholes who sell computers are already sending CD's with images only. I have a laptop which the recovery CD's are not the OS which I can configure, but an Image of the hard drive, which sets up the partitions the way Microsoft wants. I can't install the OS with a partition left over for Linux.
Give us the freaking OS we paid for. If I buy a computer, and the OS is forced on my, that I must buy it if I want the PC, then at least give me the OS on a CD and not an image.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
You want people to return their PCs to factory defaults so that their PCs just get infected again while you takes hours to download all your Windows security patches? Not bloody likely. Are you being serious, or do you work for a spyware company?
It's far simpler to buy a new PC that has a year or two's worth of security patches already in place -- less for you to download. My uncle has already replaced one PC because of spyware. He's on a dial-up connection. He's not going to sit for hours upon hours so his old PC can reinstall security patches.
Yeah but if you're willing to throw the computer in the dumpster, then reformatting is an option. The question isn't buying a new computer versus cleaning the spyware, the question is buying a new computer versus formatting-and-reinstalling. I don't see anyway the former should be cheaper.
"The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson.
because the geek squad @ Best Buy is charging little old ladies $300 to "fix" thier PC (when it needs rescueing from spyware) and simply add a spyware detector but not actually use it.
"He's a real midnight golfer"
As a memeber of the Geek Squad, I must say you make some interesting points. Mostof our business is removing spyware and viruses from machines, which, most of the time, is pretty easy. It does take us a long time though (running a lot of scans, and testing the PC to make sure it's ok). Generally, at our Best Buy store anyway, you can expect to pay $59 for a diagnostic (which basically includes runing memtest86, some DFT, Lucifer, making sure your optical drives operate, and scanning for spyware and viruses), plus $79 for "OS service" (spyware & virus removal, a repair install if necessary + removal). Not really that bad of a deal for the average user really, who really wants his or her machine back, "exactly" how it was "before". We try to tack on NAV2005 or NIS2005 ($49.99 + $10 install/update, $59.99 + $10 install/update, respectively) and Webroot SpySweeper ($29.99 + $10 install + update). As absurd as it sounds, a lot of customers believe they can not install software, and trust us to do so. The prices for in-home worst is a bit higher of course, but brining your machine to a Best Buy or GS store isn't such a bad idea to most customers. And believe me, I recommend plenty of customers just buy a new machine (cost exceeds value).
We are all Gods unwanted children. Did you ever consider he may hate you too?
I have had to set up several new Dell's from scratch that lack a floppy drive, yet use SATA harddrive's. I have found that the easiest way is just to find the sata drivers and slipstream them into a SP2 installation disc.
Instructions can be found all over google, and it typically takes less than an hour or so to make a good slipstream that you can use on most every computers' installation.
Some links i had bookmarked: Here and here.
I think that might be the editors' intention- to let people that missed an article the first time around have a shot at reading and commenting on it. Now, perhaps if they would post and LET PEOPLE KNOW that that was their intention, repeat articles wouldn't get flooded by 100 "It's a dupe" posts.
Slashdot public opinion seems to be moving a bit in favor of the "It's a dupe!" crowd...Not that they're the majority, but where I saw -1 Redundant on all of the "dupe" posts a few months back, I'm seeing not only positive, but +4 and +5 moderations. If the editors are posting repeats with a plan in mind, they should say something, because it's obvious that a lot of people are regarding it as a problem.
Check out NLite to slipstream service packs, hotfixes, answer files, and drivers. It works really well for all my custom windows disks. Get it here: http://www.nliteos.com/
Think about it for a minute. A typical college kid who's working as a techie in a computer store is going to expect about $20/hr for their time. This means the cost to actually employ that kid (after taxes and regulatory requirements) is closer to $35/hr.
You will never get even close to 1/2 utilization out of your staff of repair kids, you need to collect at least double that from the customers ($70), and then another $20 for the cost of keeping your doors open (and for the store manager to spend at least part of his/her time making sure the techies aren't stealing all the 2 GB Ram sticks or slacking off or whatever.)
That leaves $80 a day of sweet, sweet profit, all for the joy of dealing with angry assholes who will often take out their frustrations on you. Gosh, I wonder why there aren't more places fighting to get a piece of that action?
From the users perspective, they could pay $100/hr to lose all their data and end up with the same crappy computer they always had, or for a mere $300 more they could have a shiny new computer with 5 times the CPU power, 4 times the memory, 4 times the hard drive space, a DVD burner, a massively better video card, and a pretty new keyboard. It's not surprising that a lot of people decide that they'd rather spend a little extra than pouring more money into a system which has been giving them fits.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
I tell my customers after a 15min. glance (free of charge), that they have 2 options:
:)
:)
1) I clean it there (provided they have dsl), and it will take anywhere from 2-6 hours and after that it may still require a 2hr. re-install of the OS.
OR
2) I take it to my shop (where I can work on it and others and play Quake), and charge them a 2hrs. labor flat fee.
Most choose 1, i don't know why I always recommend 2, because, hey, I love my Quake...
When the bill is in the range that they could have gotten a new computer, they realize their mistake. However, I do set them up with a spyware blocker, MS' Official, Firefox for browsing (with a 5 minute WOW tutorial), and recommend them switching to Thunderbird for email, and recommend they purchase Norton for Anti-Virus (or update).
(And yes, for most of them IE is their ISP... not kidding, 'I pay SBC, but Internet Explorer is my ISP...right?').
I do what the customer asks, and when I point out that they are asking for the incorrect thing, they get indignant and demand their ignorance! So I provide them with that for which they ask.
I have also had some who say 'Can't I just get a new computer and give this one to the kids?', why yes... or you could just have me get your data backed up, restore the os, and you can have it all back good as new for 2 hrs. labor... "NO, I want a new one", and so it goes.
I got a free 1ghz. laptop that way, customer got angry said get my data off it and throw it in the trash. Passed my K6-500 compaq Lappy to my son,(Mepis 3.3.1), running good, and I get the new trash
Saving data costs money and most people want that done even though they do not/will not do it before they have problems...
What part of,"An emergency on your part does not constitute one on mine" do you not understand?
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips