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Spam Haters Given Right of Reply
rk_cr wrote to mention an Israeli technology firm which has set up a system to allow harried email users the right to reply in force. The system "batters spam websites with thousands of complaints. The plan is to fill order forms on spam websites offering pills, porn and penile health tonics with complaints about the products advertised for sale in junk messages. The plan has been criticised by other anti-spam workers who say it amounts to vigilantism."
Would the users not then be liable for precisely the same kind of charges and punishment that the spammers are?
Sure this might annoy the spammers, but it's also going to cause problems for anyone unfortunate enough to be sharing a network/webhost/isp with a spammer. And what happens when someone sends spam appearing to be from a competitors site, in order for them to be attacked?
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http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/18/121 4226&tid=111&tid=1
I'm a spammer and I really don't appreciate this kind of vigilantism. Therefore, I'm going to have my army of spambots crapflood your website with GNAA/Trollkore posts. Have a nice day.
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The plan has been criticised by other anti-spam workers who say it amounts to vigilantism.
Have you noticed that everytime a brilliant solution arise, a solution that seems just right and appropriate. A solution that would maybe not stop but at least truly hinder spam or virii and stuff like that, security firm says its a bad idea, its vigilantism and crap like that. Who cares if its vigilantism, it works and thats all that count. The fact of the matter is that none of these company want virii gone or spam dead, they want to sell you stuff that gives you the impression its doing something usefull about it. deleting spam, filtering it, scanning for virii and removing the well known ones, it just doesnt do crap about the problems... retaliating might, so facing a technique that could work the "spam fighters" dismisses it...
A vigilante is someone who usurps ot assumes power or authority from where it rightfully
exists.
Now, show me an elected or appointed spam cop that this is taking authority away from. There is none. Don't even bother to pretend ISPs fulfill this role. Their role is to keep customers. Some do better than othres at cleaning the trash, but none can act beyond their boundries.
And speaking of boundries, that's where your anti-spam laws stop. And that's as it should be.
This is the emergence of a regulatory force in the absence of any. That is not vigilantism. The net should police itself, including the dirty work. If it doesn't, someone will.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
Unbelievably stupid. Or, as Mitch Wagner observed:
And even he doesn't cover all the problems; for example, as everyone with the slightest clue about spam has known for years, responding to the spammer in any way is absolutely idiotic.
But since the people involved in this company have no anti-spam credentials, no track record of involvement, and no clue how their "counter-attacks" will be neatly retargeted (surely nobody is naive enough to believe that spammers will sit still for this?) I can't say I'm surprised. This is merely the latest bonehead idea in a long series (e.g. challenge-response, callbacks, SPF, etc.) of bonehead ideas put forth by people who have clearly failed to comprehend even the rudimentary aspects of the spam problem...or who have, but simply do not care about the conequences for everyone else as long as they can selfishly "solve" their part of the problem.
I've already blacklisted the company behind this tripe and null-routed their address space. I recommend the same for everyone else. There's simply no place on the Internet for those who want to profit from our collective misery by making it worse.
This is an old pattern. The bad guys (Spammers this time) inflict themselves on the public. Authority is asked to help, but cannot or will not do so. Victims then search for their own solutions. Authorities see their monopoly threatened and cry,"Vigilantes!" The authorities, whether government or private concerns, feel they have more to gain protecting their monopoly than by fighting the problem, and victims are an easier target than organized thugs. Notice that their protests against the victims do not offer a better solution, only name-calling and threats.
Right now the Internet is an incivillised place, a sort of new colony, but settled by people who have the benefit of hindsight from the modern societies they have come from. I say let us fight it out for ourselves, establish our own rules, enforecements and bounds of behaviour, not have them imposed from the founding states (physical world).
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
I have my doubts about whether this will actually work, but I'm not sure it matters.
I just think getting thousands of complaints should be the natural result of pissing off thousands of people.
The psychopathic behavior of a spammer wouldn't be tolerated for an instant if he were face-to-face with his victims. Try attending a ballet or opera, and yelling "I have cheese in my butt!" at top volume.
Whether it works or not, what Blue Sec is doing should be an expected inconvenience of spamming. Even if it just causes spammers to set up their own filters, at least it will weed out some would-be casual spammers.
The Internet is full. Go away.
Sheesh! Slashdot has gotten really lame.
"Other anti-spam workers" is none other than John Levine, Ph.D, co-author of the BEST SELLING INTERNET BOOK OF ALL TIME (I kid you not) "The Internet for Dummies" (Now in its ninth edition). Some of you cretins need to read it.
In Commonwealth of Virginia v. Jeremy Jaynes Dr. Levine served as an expert witness for the prosecution. His testimony helped send Jaynes to prison for nine years.
At the second annual Conference on Email and Spam Levine presented a technical paper on his experiences with greylisting.
Dr. Levine is the chair of the IRTF Anti-Spam Research Group. He's a founding member of the Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email. He runs the Network Abuse Clearinghouse.
"Other Anti-Spam Worker" indeed.
Take a good look at Blue Security's product. I think you'll see that it's little more than an HTTP DDoS tool. BlueSecurity claims that it's okay to DDoS spammers, and that they make very sure that only spammers are DDoS'd (although their careful not to call what they do a DDoS).
I'm given to understand that they moved their hosting to Israel when Verio terminated their service for violations of Verio's acceptable use policy. Verio doesn't allow folks to host denial of service tools on their network (nor will any normal ISP do so).
Someone should ask BlueSecurity about their legal threats against Everyone's Internet for attempting to do the same.
These are not nice people. The only difference between them and the normal crop of script-kiddie miscreants, is that they have found venture capital.
Spammers will continue their work as long as it is proffitable. Normally I'd als append "and legal", but it's been demonstrated ad nausium that the spammers really don't care about what's legal and what's not, so that's out. That leaves us with only two alternatives really - increase enforcement of the laws, (isn't that always a problem?) and make it not proffitable.
The problem with the proffitability is that the average consumer IQ is 100, and that means 1/2 of them are below 100, so you're not dealing with the brightest collection of people in the world. There will always be a ready supply of suckers to reply to the spammers, so we can't stop it that way.
If we can't stop their revenue, the only way to financially affect them is by costing them money. The most straightforward way to do this is by bandwidth charges and fake submissions. Is this vigilante action? You bet it is. But right now even though spam is hated by 95% of the world, there is no effective legal enforcement against it. (try to think of anything else that 95% of people in the world don't hate, that isn't illegal as a result?) The main reason this is the case is that there's so much money in spam - it's very proffitable if done correctly. As long as there is incentive in the form of lots of cash, the problem will never go away. It doesn't matter how many laws you make or any other actions you take - if it remains a very proffitable venture, people will continue to engage in it.
The only thing that makes spam different is that ONE person can annoy the piss out of hundreds of thousands of people at a time, and as far as social injustice is concerned, that's very impressive. Someone with that level of morals doing that degree of harm to the general public deserves no protection from society or its justice, even if vigilante.
Lets say I go driving around town spattering mud on people's houses. It's a nuisance, not really harmful per se, but I'm annoying the piss out of people. How long do you think I'd be allowed to continue to do that before the cops would come haul me away? Now imagine I was managing to do that TO AN ENTIRE CITY. There'd be an APB out on my carcass, you can be sure. The only reason spammers don't have this probelm is they can spatter mud on people's houses from another state or another country. For now this makes them safe. I look forward to the day this is no longer the case.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.