Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Xbox 360 to have HD-DVD, Eventually

Posted by timothy on from the 360-view-of-nothing-yet dept.

thebaboon writes "Bill Gates announced that the Xbox 360 will have an HD-DVD drive, just not for launch. From the article: "According to the statements made by Bill Gates in Japan, Xbox 360, the new gaming console, will include HD-DVD drives. Considering that such a decision would postpone the launching date, Microsoft will equip the initial models with classic DVD drives, and only after the new HD-DVD are ready, the Xbox will incorporate them."

47 of 409 comments (clear)

  1. Not very smart by Punboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This will make fewer people buy the 1st gen, and instead wait for the 2nd gen. Nobody wants to have to pay for an entirely new console to get the HD-DVD functionality. Unless they somehow release an upgrade to the 1st gen boxes, this is REALLY dumb.

    --
    If you like what I've said here, and want to read more, go to http://www.krillrblog.com
    1. Re:Not very smart by buckhead_buddy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      This will make fewer people buy the 1st gen, and instead wait for the 2nd gen. Nobody wants to have to pay for an entirely new console to get the HD-DVD functionality. Unless they somehow release an upgrade to the 1st gen boxes, this is REALLY dumb.
      If the goal is the establish the "HD-DVD" standard to win over "Blu-Ray" then it makes sense. Unlike for a personal computer, both movie players and entertainment consoles are entertainment related and people don't seem to be as careful about issues such as forward compatability or even value for their money. Some people will be duped into buying these boxes because they'll see it as a way to get the new Xbox without being forced into getting HD-DVD as well.

      Don't criticize Microsoft too harshly for this move though, they have a few billion they need to blow on dumb moves before they really feel they have to be competititve again.

    2. Re:Not very smart by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Come on, you know the fanboys will be lined up at midnight to buy 360s. I suspect quite a few people either don't have HDTVs or don't use their Xbox to watch movies anyway.

    3. Re:Not very smart by timeOday · · Score: 3, Insightful
      people don't seem to be as careful about issues such as forward compatability or even value for their money.
      The whole beauty of the console is that if you buy a game for your console, it actually WORKS. If Microsoft does this, the word XBox2 won't mean anything - you have to specify XBox2-v1 vs XBox2-HD or something. I don't think people want such subtleties in a console, it leads to tantrums on Christmas morning when Johnnie's new game won't load.
    4. Re:Not very smart by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Xbox 360 games must be on DVD; they cannot be on HD-DVD. Thus there is no problem.

    5. Re:Not very smart by schtum · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You realize that means that PS2 games on Blu-Ray discs will blow Xbox360 games out of the water in terms of graphics and features, right? I'm sure Sony will make sure something really stunning is available at launch just to make Xbox owners cry.

      Hilarious. MS is shooting themselves in the foot on features, Sony is shooting themselves in the foot on price, and Nintendo suddenly looks like the little engine that could, or the tortoise racing two hares.

    6. Re:Not very smart by TeknoHog · · Score: 2, Funny
      No modern game requires more than the 8GB of space that a dual-layer DVD can provide. Few console games even need more than the 1.5GB provided by Gamecube's discs.

      Yeah, and 640KB ought to be enough for everyone.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  2. YAY! by Evilhomer2300 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yay! I just paid out my rear end for this new 360, and now, a BETTER ONE is released later on. I'll just buy a new one, cause I have so much money. It's sorta like the plus pack for Windows XP, only this upgrade is worth more then half a soggy cookie.

    --
    Well if it isn't the leader of the wiener patrol, boning up on his nerd lesson...
  3. Yep... by Nexum · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... there's nothing so bright as selling a console where some users have different capabilities than others.

    Potential to fragment and confuse the XBox 360 market.

    --

    This sig has been deprecated.
    1. Re:Yep... by BackInIraq · · Score: 4, Interesting

      ... there's nothing so bright as selling a console where some users have different capabilities than others.

      Potential to fragment and confuse the XBox 360 market.

      The funny part is that in the current generation they were the only one of the three that DIDN'T fracture their market this way...by shipping all Xboxes with ethernet and a hard drive standard, they made sure that everybody had the same console, so that software publishers could target those features knowing that they'd be aiming for the -entire- market. There's a reason networking never really took off for PS2 and GameCube in this generation, and I'll be interested to see how successful HD-DVD is for the Xbox in the next.

    2. Re:Yep... by badasscat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's a reason networking never really took off for PS2 and GameCube in this generation

      The PS2 has always led the Xbox in online users by about a factor of four to one. The service being free certainly helps...

      In fact, I disagree with your suggestion that MS didn't "fracture the market" with the way they implemented networking - because you have to pay, on an ongoing basis, to enable that feature on your box. Many people (more than 90% of Xbox users, by MS's own numbers) have chosen not to do so. So, to 90% of the market, the Xbox has no online capabilities. To the remaining 10%, it does. How is that different than how Sony has implemented it?

  4. This is called "Screw the Die-Hard Gamer" XP by TellarHK · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yep, that's brilliant. Completely screw all the die-hards that buy early or pre-order machines, so they don't get a feature that'll be a major selling point a while down the road. Sounds like the wrong way to market a console to me.

    --
    My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
    1. Re:This is called "Screw the Die-Hard Gamer" XP by tricorn · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, my guess is that Blu-Ray is going to be the "winner", or that some compromise will be made and all players will support both BR and HD-DVD. In either case, I'm not willing to bet with my dollars, so the PS3 having Blu-Ray from the start is going to mean I can experiment with BR titles without having to buy a new separate player. For HD-DVD, I'm just going to wait. I wasn't going to get an XBox360 anyway, since I have a bunch of PS2 games I'll still want to play, but not having at least one of the new formats certainly makes it even less attractive to buy it out of the starting gate.

      Where this could really hurt Microsoft is if initial sales are really soft because of it, that fact alone could hurt future sales more than having simply been late to market. If the HD-DVD version takes 3 or 4 months to come out, putting it close to the PS3 release, I can then see lots of people holding off just a few months to see how that turns out. PS3 demand is likely to be through the roof, and the perception that it is more popular than XBox360 at launch could help keep it there. That in turn could lead to a perception that Blu-Ray is also a more desirable format than HD-DVD, which further decreases demand for the updated XBox360 version.

      The only thing that might prevent such a situation is if the initial release includes a coupon for a free (or incredibly cheap - $20 or less) upgrade - either user-installable (not a problem, as most early adopters will be capable of doing it), or including labor. Anything less than that will probably cause a significant number of people to hold off, if only to see how PS3 turns out and how Blu-Ray fares against HD-DVD after that release.

      My prediction: PS3 is going to blow away Xbox360, and that will directly solve the chicken-and-egg problem and lead to Blu-Ray becoming an accepted format, which will in turn lead to HD-DVD quickly falling out of favor (unless they immediately decide to license it so cheaply that players that support both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD can be sold for less than $200 by the end of 2006, in which case it may be able to hang on - but all those PS3 consoles that can't do HD-DVD will inhibit that).

      All should be fairly clear within a month of the XBox360 release, and crystal clear a week after the PS3 release. I'll crow, or eat crow, then.

  5. Then I'll wait by Nightspirit · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Then why buy one initially, unless you can't wait a few months?

    Unless they have some sort of free "upgrade" offer...

  6. Just like Nintendo did with the N64 by MagusSlurpy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    64DD, anyone?

    --
    My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
  7. Perfect Plan! by AnswerIs42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    1) Release 360 for Holiday Season
    2) ?
    3) Profit!
    4) RE-Release 360 Later with HD-DVD
    5) MORE Profit!

    All the more reason I WON'T be getting a 360 till about a year after release. Heck, I didn't get an X-Box till about 7 months ago.

  8. Regarding Early adoption of new console.... by hine_uk · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...Foot, Gun, Shoot!

  9. Re:Not a good choice... by Mandoric · · Score: 2, Informative

    Neither the XBox internal HDD nor the PS2 peripheral one can be upgraded officially.

  10. uhh... by Psx29 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    sega cd?

  11. It will kill all initial sales by fsterman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Loss of initial sales means fewer number on the market. The fewer on the market means that developers have less reason to make games for that consol, and with less games it will mean fewer buyers.

    A similar occurance with the DreamCast. Fewer people bought it and was waiting for the "vastly more powerful" PS2. Now Sega no longer makes a console thanks to the above cycle.

    --
    Is there anything better than clicking through Microsoft ads on Slashdot?
  12. Yeah, right... by Zen+Punk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maybe they will, they probably won't. I remember the rumours about Dreamcast and it's supposed DVD drive. Even after it came out people were speculating about a possible upgrade to DVD. Remember how the PS2 HD, which wasn't packaged in, took off like a fucking rocket? Yeah, this'll be just like that except even better.

    --
    Sleep is futile.
  13. No, probably work fine in America at least by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While Japan is real big on the "console that does everything" in a large part because apartments tend to be small, that's not such an issue in the states. People will be willing to have a device for palying games, and a device for playing DVDs, and so on. Everyone I know that owns one or more game consoles also owns a seperate DVD player, though the new consoles could do that, if they wanted it to.

    An upgrade is certianly an option too, bring your box to an authorized dealer, they upgrade it, maybe for free, maybe for a small charge.

    However I suspect it won't really matter, the HD-DVD feature will be cool for those that want to use it as their player, but I don't think it'll matter for games. You have to remember that a regular DVD will hold 16GB of data in the case of DSDL, and 8GB for DL. That's plenty for the forseeable future of games. Currently the largest game I've seen is Everquest 2 and it spans about 10 CD, so 7GB at most. It's also an anomoly at the high end, most fit in under 4GB. It's just hard to generate that much data for a game. You can only develop so much content on a reasonable budget.

    I think any disadvantage of having peopel wait will be compensated by being first to market.

    1. Re:No, probably work fine in America at least by EvilSS · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you build it, a developer will find a way to fill it up.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    2. Re:No, probably work fine in America at least by javaxman · · Score: 3, Insightful
      While Japan is real big on the "console that does everything" in a large part because apartments tend to be small, that's not such an issue in the states.

      There is one thing we're pretty sensitive to here in the states, though- actually, much more sensitive to than the Japanese: being screwed over by being the early adopter. It's bad enough to know that HDTV prices are going to drop, which is certainly keeping a decent number of folks away from those; here we have an example of a product that not only might see superior competition released in another six months ( competition which will play all those PS2 games you have sitting around ), but definitely will be supplanted by a superior model in another 6 months. It's like buying a computer, except you don't _have_ to buy it to get your project done.

      As such, if MS is worried they might not have a great supply of these things in the first 6 months, this might stem demand.

      IF, on the other hand, they really want people to buy them the minute they're available, they need to spell out what the upgrade path is and make the cost known up-front. This makes me really NOT want to buy a 360. I was thinking about it before, but you know what? Maybe I'll wait until PS3s are available in the wild, and can be compared side-to-side with an Xbox 360 with HD-DVD, so I can make a more informed decision about which to buy.

      An upgrade is certianly an option too, bring your box to an authorized dealer, they upgrade it, maybe for free, maybe for a small charge.

      You're dreaming if you think a new HDDVD for the 360 will be a cheap option, and you're crazy if you think it's going to be free. Sorry, that's just silly to say.

      It's just hard to generate that much data for a game. You can only develop so much content on a reasonable budget.

      Who ever said anything about games developed on a resonable budget? Those will still be current-generation games, for the most part... this generation of console games are going to have budgets that dwarf those of many smaller movies, and are going to include lots and lots of HD movie content ( which, now that you mention it, isn't necessarily super-expensive to create, but these will be crazy-big-budget games). That'll fill up an HD-DVD real fast, all that HD video.

      I think any disadvantage of having peopel wait will be compensated by being first to market.

      Game console history is littered with the dead, forgotten bodies of the first-to-market. Knowing a more capable XBox will be released in 6 months or so of the original, and that games might be released that the original can't play... those are concepts that make me really NOT want to buy an Xbox. Sure, if I have plenty of cash burning a hole in my pocket, maybe... but maybe I'd sink it into a gaming PC or graphics card instead. As it is, I'm like most Americans, and I can't afford to spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars on every game console that comes out, just to line Microsoft's pockets... I'll be waiting and watching, looking to compare the Xbox 360 HD-DVD directly with the PS3 Blu-Ray. No, it won't be about the disc format, it'll be about the games... but even if I had been thinking I'd for sure buy the 360, I think knowing the HD-DVD version would be out within a year might make me think twice...

  14. The Osborne effect by Wizzmer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sounds like Bill is doing an Osborne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect)

  15. Makes sense to me... by ThePatrioticFuck · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think MS may be hedging their bets on this one. There's still a ton of talk going on about which format to go with as the standard (HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray vs. some hybrid version). By holding off a bit, they still get to market ahead of Sony and depending on when/if a format is chosen, they can put out a drive that is supported by the 360 with a simple software update. If they put in an HD-DVD drive now, they're stuck with it (and possible a dead format).

  16. Hardware fragmentation by xswl0931 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think some of you are over reacting over the news that future XBox360's will incorporate a HD-DVD. Considering that 99% of game barely use the space on a single DVD (I'm not sure if any use dual layer DVDs). It's likely that XBox 360 games will only come out on DVD. I suspect that there will be two different SKUs for the XBox 360, one with the DVD drive and the other with HD-DVD. And the HD-DVD one will cost more for those who want it.

    1. Re:Hardware fragmentation by Mongoose · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Team ninja has has people talking publicly about lack of space for their DoA games on a 'tiny DVD'. When you have major developers for your console out in public saying they might just forget developing for you console -- it's a big deal.

      The problem is many Japanese developers like having HD quality cutscenes, and they can fill a lot of DVDs.

      ( DoA is the only title that sold well on xbox in Japan. Japan is the #2 games market, so do the math. )

  17. News wrong and over 1month old by NiteStar · · Score: 5, Informative

    Wha! Slashdot did it again. http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-Microsoft-Toshi ba-HD-DVD-Alliance-Changes-Xbox-360-3902.shtml This article was posted on 28th of June 2005, 16:45 GMT ... juNE juNE juNE. On a 2nd note ... softpedia is wrong too. Bill Gates said it (over 1 month ago): ``The initial shipments of Xbox 360 will be based on today's DVD format,'' Gates said. ``We are looking at whether future versions of Xbox will incorporate an additional capability of an HD DVD player or something else.'' It's not confirmed what-so-ever! see: http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8591/Xbox-360-Might- Incorporate-HD-DVD-Drive/ or http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000101&si d=aIoj6W6mNl_M&refer=japan

    1. Re:News wrong and over 1month old by ultraj · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Microsoft SCEO Steve Balmer interview on Engadget: "It's a little bit like the discussion about HD DVD type storage. Will we have it? Sure. It's not like by the next generation there won't be a way to get massive storage on an Xbox. You'll get it." http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000597043723/

    2. Re:News wrong and over 1month old by NiteStar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      May 18th ... you don't make it look better for /.
      Anyway, the words from BG last month are clear enough:
      "We are looking at whether future versions of Xbox will incorporate an additional capability of an HD DVD player or something else."

      The /. article is wrong and old.

  18. Rock and a hard place by darkonc · · Score: 2, Insightful
    If they start releasing titles on HD-DVD, then the people who bought early on will be frozen out unless they fork out an extra couple hundred dollars for the upgrade (can you spell pised off?? I can't).

    If, on the other hand, they don't release titles on HD-DVD, then the people who pay extra for the later models that come with hd-dvd are going to be wondering why they paid extra for a pink-elephant hardware 'feature'.

    --
    Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
  19. HD-DVD "Games" are the problem by cgenman · · Score: 4, Informative

    I've written this before, but there are a million ways to fill a HD-DVD. You could, for example, render out a version of all of your textures with time-of-day effects, and swap between them mid-game. You could add modifiers to all of your audio streams to get audio for various locations. You could pregen background or in-game assets, like applying a movie to a wall texture to make it appear that it has more depth than it does. You could pregenerate a thousand different havok crash animations, and randomly select between them. You can use a slow algorithm to populate a forest, make a few large-scale, adjustments, and save out the results as a sectionally loaded world the size of montana.

    When the transition was made between CD and DVD games, it was said that a DVD would never be filled. Well, they're filled. And BTW, nobody would accept a Dual-Sided DVD. Do you know how annoying it would be to be told every few minutes to flip your disk over?

    The question, really, is will anyone release games on HD-DVD instead of DVD? I'm betting so, as there will be blue-ray games getting ported from the PS3. And when that happens, whoever bought the DVD version of the Xbox will be screwed out of playing the lastest Final Fantasy, or Gran Turismo 5, or Fable 2.

    As a HD-DVD player I could care less. But as a game console that is supposed to play HD-DVD games, this will anger a lot of suddenly ex-customers.

    --
    The ______ Agenda
    1. Re:HD-DVD "Games" are the problem by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Informative

      All you ideas are interesting, but you quickly discover they aren't worthwhile in a game, epsically one on modren hardware like the Xbox is going to have. You just can't render enough textures to truly account for every situation, every angle, etc, and even if you could you can't swap it off disc fast enough (HDs are too slow for it and DVDs make them look downright speedy). So what you do instead is write mathematical formulas that describe the surface, and have the card render them. That's the procedural textures you often hear about.

      Net result is the textures look more real, and properly react to the environment, they change as the light does and so on. That's actually how it's nearly always done on for high-end rendering. You don't texture map something, that won't look good, instead you use material shaders to describe the surfaces, and the engine calculates how it all looks.

      For games this kind of thing is still in it's infancy, but it's growing fast and will be big on next gen consoles. On the Xbox, the graphics card had the capability to do this, but in a pretty limited capacity, so it only got used for certian things (like a specular layer or for water or something). The 360 is on par with the latest nVidia 7000 series chips, and it has the shaders to do a whole ot of this.

      Sound is likewise handled like this. The sound processor convolutes teh sound in realtime in reaction to the environment. That actually works really well even on older hardware like the Xbox. It'l even take in to account the number and locations of your speakers if you like.

      I'm not saying it's impossible to fill a DVD, but doesn't seem likely. Like I said, average game today is running maybe 3-4 CDs in size. You get about 12 CDs worth of space on a DL DVD, so that's some room to grow.

    2. Re:HD-DVD "Games" are the problem by Stonent1 · · Score: 4, Funny

      And BTW, nobody would accept a Dual-Sided DVD. Do you know how annoying it would be to be told every few minutes to flip your disk over? Someone's never owned an Apple II...

    3. Re:HD-DVD "Games" are the problem by snorklewacker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > I've written this before, but there are a million ways to fill a HD-DVD.

      You mention a dozen esoteric ways to fill a HD-DVD except the obvious one:

      Full motion video at 1080p

      --
      I am no longer wasting my time with slashdot
    4. Re:HD-DVD "Games" are the problem by AngelofDeath-02 · · Score: 2

      Star ocean Ex is on 2 dvd's ...

      --
      No, I am not an English major. My posts are subject to typos and incorrect grammar. Do not expect perfection.
    5. Re:HD-DVD "Games" are the problem by The+Only+Druid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Net result is the textures look more real, and properly react to the environment, they change as the light does and so on. That's actually how it's nearly always done on for high-end rendering. You don't texture map something, that won't look good, instead you use material shaders to describe the surfaces, and the engine calculates how it all looks."

      Except you're wrong. Most textures in the highest resolution systems (e.g. movies, etc.) are most certainly NOT procedural. They're just extremely high-resolution texture maps (including high-resolution normal and bump maps).

      Procedural textures are extremely important and useful, but there are certain effects (such as the texturing of a face - which requires coloring specific to the contours of a face, etc.) that are not viable via procedural textures but are easily accomplished with high-res textures. Your comments indicate that you don't understand the workflow involved in high-end rendering, much less games (which involve more texture mapping and less procedural texturing than film work).

      --
      "Stumble before you crawl"
    6. Re:HD-DVD "Games" are the problem by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No I understand it quite well, you seem to have a concept of how things were done a couple years ago. Yes, games like Deus Ex did the high-res texture trick you talk about, detail textures I believe they were called. You'd get close to an object, they'd render another layer of textures to give additonal detail. Of course this still isn't what the GP was talking about, this was another layer of rendering.

      Now normal mapping is something else entirely. That's an operation to fake geometry, more or less. Tou design a high detail model, then you cut it way down so it can work well on a graphics card. Then you use a normal map to fill in the missing detail, which it does faily well.

      Also I'd note normal mapping in games is exceedingly rare these days.

      Now you are correct in that there are methods for using modified texture mapping to do high resolution renderings, such a thing was done in Fight Club for the apartment scenes. However that isn't the direction computer games are moving. They come from a realm of nothing but texture maps. The orignal 3d games were just mapped textures and a light map on that. Not until the GeForce 3 genrations of cards could you get mathematical textures. As time goes on cards get better and better at this (having more powerful pixel shaders is a big thing) and games go over to it.

      It's not supprising, space aside, games have demands movies don't. In a movie, you know the lighting, the camera angles, etc. So you can work on your textures and have them right for what you are doing. Not the case in a game, people can wander aroundand do as they please. A texture needs to look good from all arbitrary angles, not just one. The lighting can change as well, as the environment is dynamic. Thus it makes a lot of sense to use procedural textures.

      In some cases it's real simple. World of Warcraft basicaly throws a specular shader on a bunch of stuff to make it shiny. Cheap trick, but nice visualy. Doom 3 makes far greater use to get reflections off of surfaces to look somewhat correct.

      Regardless of all this, the point stands. You go ahead and render every texture and light combination perfectly form every angle. You aren't streaming that off DVD in a fashion to make a game playable. It needs to be done in realtime in hardware.

  20. I see it as smart. by standards · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Releasing the XBox without HD-DVD will permit the delivery of the games and consoles many many months before the delivery of the PS3 . And the lack of HD-DVD will negatively impact very few users - please recall that few world-wide households have HDTV - less than 1%! And about zero percent have HD-DVD discs.

    Microsoft is playing second fiddle now, and it's XBox division WILL die if it doesn't improve its very disappointing numbers. Microsoft requires the advantage of delivering significantly before Sony. If it means that HD-DVD comes in as an upgrade, so be it.

    Will some people want HD-DVD? Yes. But those people who can actually use the technology are in the very very distant minority.

    1. Re:I see it as smart. by Dryth · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And the lack of HD-DVD will negatively impact very few users - please recall that few world-wide households have HDTV - less than 1%! And about zero percent have HD-DVD discs.

      HD-DVD != HDTV. It's a higher capacity format, and while the specification does include higher resolutions for HD-DVD video, the higher capacity (and perhaps bandwidth) is more relevant to gaming. The problem is it would create two classes of Xbox 360s, meaning older consoles would need to be physically upgraded to play new content on HD-DVDs.

      Where HDTV is concerned, at last check roughly 10% of households in America have HDTVs. These are individuals willing to spend more money on their entertainment technology and willing early adopters; this is exactly a company selling gaming devices would be targeting.

  21. The Osborne Effect by nathanh · · Score: 3, Informative

    A number of people have already commented that this is a dumb marketing move - announcing "a better product coming out Real Soon now" - because at least some purchasers will wait rather than buy the first generation and get an inferior product.

    This marketing mistake has a name; The Osborne Effect. Apparently an urban legend but never the less a good one, it describes how a similar announcement crippled Osborne Computers in the 1980s. Nice to know that even 20 years later, Microsoft is still copying ideas from competitors <g>.

  22. DVD space usage by dafing · · Score: 2, Informative

    Im sure many games are close to filling a DVD, once when I had my Grand Theft Auto San Andrea ps2 disc in my computer, it showed up as using something like 7GB, sorry I cant be specific on exact usage. This is surely dual layer. I hear xbox discs have around 6GB of storage, so all xbox discs must be dual layer?

    --
    --- ...or a new slashdot signature. Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
  23. Re:No it's not a big problem by EvilSS · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Console gamers don't give a crap about it. They want to play the games on what they think is the best console of the time. Game developers can either accept it or not publish for that platform. For them, the money is more than worth the loss of control.

    --
    I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
  24. Re:You keep saying that... by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 4, Informative

    No, HD-DVDs actually have more space (30GB) than regular DVDs (8.5GB).

  25. Re:You keep saying that... by crashelite · · Score: 3, Informative

    HD - DVD 15 GB single layer... 30 GB dual layer... triple-layer disc is in development, which would offer 45GB of storage... Blu-ray 1.0 25 GB single layer... 50 GB dual layer... and i heard somewhere they have the 100 GB disks and still are working on the 200 GB version... also data transfer rate is 36 Mbit/s (54 Mbit/s for BD-ROM) and 72 Mbit/s transfer rate are in development (could not find that data transfer rate on the HD - DVD drives so umm ya... oh well) boils down to what one will suit them best... in my opinion blu-ray is amazing... less bottle neck = faster game play (not to mention load times would be WAY less when ever i play halo its like LOAD COME ON!!!)

    --
    (yes i know i suck at spelling fell free to correct my grammar and/or spellin i dont care, im still not going to change
  26. Re:Wrong by BackInIraq · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You can add the HDD and ethernet expansions to any PS2. It's like requiring gnucon or a driving wheel for speciality games. It's been done since the NES. Welcome to 1985!

    Wrong-o. The new-model PS2 cannot take the HDD expansion, thus rendering it more or less obsolete. THAT is what happens when a feature isn't built in...it gets ignored and/or abandoned.

    And of the hundreds of NES games produced, how many used the light gun? Or the power pad? Of all the games produced for the PS2, what percentage use the hard drive expansion? Or the multi-tap (or whatever they called it for the PS2)?

    Now what percentage of Xbox games use the hard drive? Oh wait, that's probably about 100%. What percentage include some form of networked play (either Live OR local area network)? While nowhere near 100%, I'm sure it's quite a bit higher than the PS2's.

    And to not pick on the PS2 specifically, what percentage of games for the GameCube use the broadband adapter?