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Microsoft Leveraging iPod Patent?
willie3204 was one of several readers who noticed this story about Microsoft cashing in on the iPod Patent that they apparently beat Apple to. Since this song looks to be played to the tune of $10/iPod, I imagine someone will be singing the appeal song.
1. Steal Apple's technology 2. File a patent before they can 3. Profit!
Two words: Prior Art. MS filed two months after the debut of the iPod. Apple got caught with their pants down by filing late, but I doubt seriously MS will be able to collect a dime on the patents.
... is shit. The $10 figure is almost certainly a coke-fuelled[0] invention of some lazy-ass semi-literate tech-journalist needing desperately to fill space, who's noticed that such a patent exists (probably read it on some other tech news site, but felt the story needed spicing up). Until MS or Apple actually make a statement on it, this is just moronic conjecture.
[0] I mean Coca-Cola, obviously.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Here's what the facts really are http://wizbangblog.com/archives/006750.php
/., reporting on the story have the facts wrong
1. M$ doesn't HAVE the patent yet, as it hasn't been granted yet
2. M$ is unlikely to get the patent, as their is prior art
3. Media outlets, incl. apparently
In Soviet Russia, I ruled you
I develop with Microsoft software. My desktops are all Windows desktops (though I run Linux in virtual sessions). I target the Microsoft environment because, in my analysis and for the industry I target, it is the best choice. I've even been accused on Slashdot of being a Microsoft astroturfer countless times for shooting down misguided and misinformed anti-"M$" FUD. While I've been a bit put off by some of Microsoft's prior actions, I could always see their position. I have never owned a Mac, and I don't own an iPod.
Yet this action absolutely disgusts me.
Microsoft seriously risks turning off, and scaring away, the people who have the influence and persuasive power and technical know-how to maintain Microsoft's position. Hearing some scumbag talking about "licensing their innovation", when he's really talking about a deplorable abuse of the patent system, really makes one ponder what's the next (we already got hints from the sad reality that Microsoft considered buying Claria). Previously it was Microsoft the Evil to the conspiracy theorists and the people with an axe to grind. The title is becoming more real to the mainstream.
My own theory is that Apple declared War on Microsoft when they announced their intention to release an x86 version of OS X. The OS is the powerhouse of Apple's future success. This could be a very serious competitor to Microsoft Windows. Really, who isn't interested in trying a polished functional alternative to XP? Now Apple's opening salvoes have been returned by Microsoft pulling this licensing garbage.
Really. This is all out war now.
(2,3-Benzopyrrole)
The last time this story came up I dug up the actual patents in question. (Don't have the links handy atm) IANAL but from what I could gather, the patents don't overlap.
... although knowing MS the execution would end up like Clippy *shudders*
The Apple patent covers all the basic iPod functionality, scroll wheel, music, video (forward thinking I suppose), etc etc.
The Microsoft patent is for something called "Auto DJ". Basically it's software that allows you to pick several songs as positive seeds, and at least one as a negative seed, and based on your choices it will generate a playlist from your music library. Sounds like a DAMN good idea
FPAP - First Prior Art Post!
Congratulations! You're the first Slashbot to write 'Prior Art' in this patent discussion! Good job winning the race, and good luck with the free karma!
Lawyers only work when everyone agrees to abide by the lawers and judges. People generally only agree to this because some "soldiers" somewhere are willing to enforce what the lawyers and judges say. I only care about lawyers and judges because of the guys with guns behind them.
People in the US in particular seem to forget that the only real way to enforce anything is with force.
"There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
Of course, the cost of forgery is immeasurably less than the cost of losing a really big patent fight: as Lord MacAulay noted many years ago, in India there were even companies in Bombay that obligingly kept stacks of paper and ink for different years up to about 40 years back, along with official government seals, so they could do you anything you wanted. This is the major weakness of the US system, i.e. the incentive to fraud is disproportionate to the risk. The weakness of the European system (first to file) is of a thief stealing an invention and filing it first.
The inability or unwillingness of the EC to understand this is at the root of the problem with software patents shows that the last people to leave in charge of technology are civil servants and lawyers.
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
The long answer is that it takes a shit load of money (usually millions) and time to overturn even obviously bad patents. Thus they are hobbling Apple for a bit and presumably generating a bit of fear, uncertainty and doubt as to iPod. It's basically like a nuisance lawsuit to tie up resources. Everyone, especially MS, knows that MS can't compete on technical mertis so it's been doing everything possible to ensure that no one else can either.
Take this as a warning as to what will happen if MS is able to force software patents into Europe and no longer has to play nice on either side of the Atlantic.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Has anyone patented buttered bread yet?
No, but I have several butter related patents pending.
1. The Butter Pen. Put your standard stick of butter in and draw the butter on to your toast/pancakes/waffles/etc. The butter pen automatically maintains the butter at the perfect temperature for spreading. the butter.
2. The Butter Powered Clock. Harnessing the internal power of butter, just feed it a new stick of butter every sunday and this clock will keep running. Plus as an added bonus your room will smell nice and butttery.
3. Popcorn Irrigation System. Ever notice how the popcorn on top gets all the butter and by the time you reach the bottom, you are gnawing on dry butterless popcorn? The Popcorn Irrigation System solves that problem once and for all by equally distributing the butter to the entire batch. Using a system of pressurized tubes and nozzles along with liquid butter, each kernel is misted equally with delicious butter.
4. Butter Rifle. For long distance buttering hobbyists. How tight is your spread?
I better not spill all the beans, these inventions are really pushing the limits of butter technology to the next phase. You can see how exciting the field still is though.
music lover since 1969
... will be for Microsoft to drop the Mac version of Office, and Apple to release an Excel-competitor. I'll be skeptical of the all-out-war theory until those two things happen.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
You're an idiot and your comment is overrated. Learn why below.
Yes, it's true: Steve Jobs said in a sentence: "great artists steal." Unfortunately for you, his entire statement explained why he felt that saying was actually wrong and that people at Apple have been careful not to steal technology or ideas.
Don't take part of a statement and twist its intentions around to suit your poor argument.
And yes - Apple invented the first commercial GUI and did so with rights from PARC and with a number of PARC engineers that went to work for Apple.
And of course, the patent has nothing to do with putting products in white boxes. Thre are real innovations behind the iPod that distinguish it from other MP3 players.
Lastly, none of this matters. America is not a "first to file" country, but rather a "first to invent" country. Since the iPod was marketed and public before Microsoft's application, it will likely be rejected by the appeals process because of prior art violations.
The next comment I write will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
Nope, in the U.S. only, the first person to have invented the device wins, regardless of who filed first.
But what happens if two people design something similar with no knowledge of the others progress and a patent is filed by one before the other?
The case is going to hinge on documentary evidence as to who completed work on the invention first. From 35 USC 102(g)(1):
These invention priority cases can get very messy, however, and the U.S. is probably soon going to change to "first to file."If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
As the applications stand, Apple will likely be issued a rejection by the USPTO based on MS's prior application. Assuming Apple can demonstrate that they had invented this product first (shown through sales, and preferrably dated design drawings, schematics and such), they should overcome the USPTO rejection. At that point the USPTO would invalidate MS's patent.
As a bunch of people above have pointed out though, this only works in the US. In Europe and essentially the rest of the world, where a first-to-file system is used, Apple probably won't be so lucky. If MS beat apple to filing in any first-to-file countries, they should retain the patent even though Apple actually developed a product using the patented technology first. There are pros and cons to botht he first-to-file and first-to-invent system, but that's an argument for another time/
It'll be interesting to see if MS will license the patent to Apple, or if they'll force apple to change the interface. Neither one makes MS look particularly good, but this really could let MS get a foothold in the MP3 player market, taking the interface everyone loves so much and building it into a player of their own.
The moral of the story: patent your ideas before marketing them to the public.
More likely, Apple will pull some patent they've been hanging onto that some newish version of Windows violates. Both sides will realize that both patents will probably be overturned at great expense, and a cross licensing agreement will make this all go away.
...Microsoft wants something specific from Apple and is using this as a lever.
Or...
From the article:
"Microsoft and Apple have previously licensed their respective patent portfolios to one another and we maintain a good working relationship with Apple."
"Anyone that has ever gotten an idea based on any of my work and done something better with it-good for you."--J.Carmack