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Branched Nanotubes Offer Smaller Transistors

Designadrug writes "Tiny tubes of carbon, crafted into the shape of a Y, could revolutionize the computer industry, suggests new research. The work has shown that Y-shaped carbon nanotubes are easily made and act as remarkably efficient electronic transistors - but the nanotransistors are just a few hundred millionths of a meter in size -roughly 100 times smaller than the components used in today's microprocessors."

38 of 218 comments (clear)

  1. Moore's Law. by Quebec · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Each time some expert's saying that Moore's Law is about to hit a barrier,
    there is something going on like those promising nanotubes.

    Another one for Moore against those doomsday preacher like this one:
    http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-5112061.html

    1. Re:Moore's Law. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, they still need to develop an industrial process for putting billions of those things cheaply on a small chip. That will take decades, at the very least, and in the time the current CMOS chip technology will have advanced several times... Don't hold your breath.

    2. Re:Moore's Law. by slapout · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hey, you could have your own law:

      Quebec's law: "Each time some expert's saying that Moore's Law is about to hit a barrier,
      there is something going on like those promising nanotubes."

      --
      Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
    3. Re:Moore's Law. by LWATCDR · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except one of the reason Moore's observation held is that ICs are so much easier to make then what they replaced. These new nanotubes may not scale to well for mass production.
      Moore's law IS not a fundamental law of the Universe. It was an observation of a trend that has held up for a lot long than anyone expected.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    4. Re:Moore's Law. by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Funny
      Hey, you could have your own law: Quebec's law: "Each time some expert's saying that Moore's Law is about to hit a barrier, there is something going on like those promising nanotubes."
      Sorta like Slapout's Corollary: "Anytime something can go wrong, no matter how likely, something will eventually come along and make it actually work, defying all odds and logic."

      i think metamoderation works something like that...

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    5. Re:Moore's Law. by Anm · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually.. the sizes mentioned in the Moore's Law barrier article you linked to roughly equate to the "a few hundred millionths of a meter in size" (2/100,000,000 meters == 20 nano-meters ~= 16 nanometers). Since the barrier is over a decade away, the two articles aren't in conflict, as much as you would like to hope.

      Anm

    6. Re:Moore's Law. by fbjon · · Score: 4, Informative

      There was an article in Sientific American about making chips much smaller by letting water flow between the imprinting laser lens and the silicon wafer. The water changes the refractive index, so the lens can be better utilized, as I understand it, and apparently it's not particularly difficult either, since existing 193nm lithography can be used, and even surpass the planned 157nm lithography tech. Here's another article with some links.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    7. Re:Moore's Law. by amliebsch · · Score: 3, Informative

      Moore's law applies to transistor counts per square inch, not clock speeds. You're thinking of the "Law of Marketing."

      --
      If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
    8. Re:Moore's Law. by oringo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Do you even know what Moore's law is? Even a highschool student can tell you that it has nothing to do with the MHz speed of the silicon, although theoretically as the widths of the gates shrink you can run the logic faster. Moore's Law simply states that the density of silicon chips doubles every 18 month.
      On a sidenote, Intel's Netburst archicture has turned out to be a failure to reliably increase the PERFORMANCE of the CPU (ironically I'm using one right now), precisely because of the architecture's emphesis on higher clock rate. But other architectures, such as AMD64 and Power are rapidlly shrinking their die and consistently increasing performance.

  2. Nothing for you to see here. Please move along. by BlackCobra43 · · Score: 4, Funny

    What if I have a really, really powerful microscope?

    --
    I never spellcheck and I freely admit it. Save your karma for more worthwhile "lol erorrs" replies
  3. Matters of Size and Scope by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Interesting
    the nanotransistors are just a few hundred millionths of a meter in size -roughly 100 times smaller than the components used in today's microprocessors.

    We're going to have a devil of a time soldering these things, not to mention fitting them with heatsinks...

    Bandaru says the main remaining worry is how to manufacture complex nanotube-based circuitry reliably. Nonetheless, he is optimistic about the future of nanotube-based electronics.

    "One must remember that for the Pentium chips which now have over 500 million transistors, the progenitor was a simple integrated circuit with two transistors in 1958," Bandaru says. "We are probably at the same stage with Y-junctions and the future looks good."
    37 years? I can't wait that long! Where's the Fast Forward on these things?
    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Matters of Size and Scope by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Informative
      100 times as small means 100 times less necessary current per transistor. The question is, how much current can one of these things handle?

      It's also Carbon, something regularly used for resistors (prior to film resistors.) Seems resistance and heat will be some kind of issue.

      As to "how do you solder them," that's just stupid. You don't solder them, any more than you solder 100 million transistors in a Pentium.

      Pentium and other chips are etched from an existing sandwich, IIRC, we're talking about growing a "chip" rather than chiseling the everything from a section of a wafer which doesn't look like a Pentium.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    2. Re:Matters of Size and Scope by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 2, Informative


      It's also Carbon, something regularly used for resistors (prior to film resistors.) Seems resistance and heat will be some kind of issue.

      Actually, carbon nanotubes are as conductive as copper...here's a nice resource .

      --
      ____

      ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

  4. And the best part? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Soon we'll have cell phones we can lose *100 times* as fast!

    1. Re:And the best part? by drakaan · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Actually, you're both off a bit.

      In TFA, the "100 times smaller" comes from the length of the nanotube transistor being 1/10th that of its silicon counterpart. Cellphone-losing should increase by no more than a factor of 100 (unless 3-d chips become commonplace).

      --
      "Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
    2. Re:And the best part? by networkBoy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "There is this volumetric processor that we call the vertebrate brain.."

      Which is relatively low heat density, and is impractable from a packaging standpoint. It needs way too much support harware :P
      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
  5. Coming Soon: Time Travel by DaSpudMan · · Score: 5, Funny

    Looks like a Flux Capacitor to me.

    --
    > > >We don't need no steeekin'.....oh wait, my wife says we do.
  6. Old News by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 5, Informative

    This paper suggests that this sort of thing was being done 5 years ago.

    From the paper:
    Also, Papadopoulos et al introduced a Y-junction formation technique using branched nanochannel alumina templates (Papadopoulos, 2000).
    --
    ____

    ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

    1. Re:Old News by jda487 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Making one 5 years ago and now knowing that it has semi-conductiong properities are two entirely different things.

  7. Re:size vs heat in 50 years by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    decreasing the size of something doesn't increase the heat it produces, no. it makes it harder for said something to dissipate the heat, as it has less surface area. you might be overlooking the part of the blurb that said "are easily made and act as remarkably efficient electronic transistors". remarkably efficient almost implies that heat issues are decreased proportionally to the size. almost. so i'd be more inclined to guess that heat decreases by a factor of 100 before i'd say it increases.

    --
    Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
  8. A few issues by convex_mirror · · Score: 2, Informative

    In the near-term, we have to be able to sort CNTs by chirality and diameter much more accurately and cheaply than we can now - this is because the properties of CNTs change dramatically based on very slight variations in these properties.

    Once we can do that reasonably well, there are a few approaches that look promising. For /. people who have access to scientific journals and want more in depth information on this subect - you can take a look at these articles:
    P. G. Collins, et al., Science, 292, 706 (2001)
    P. G. Collins, M. C. Hersam, M. Arnold, R. Martel, and Ph. Avouris, Phys. Rev. Lett., 86, 3128 (2001).
    J. A. Misewich, et al., Science, 300, 783 (2003)

  9. Math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful
    [B]ut the nanotransistors are just a few hundred millionths of a meter in size -roughly 100 times smaller than the components used in today's microprocessors

    So, uh, they are a few hundred millionths of a meter in size -- or to put it in clearer terms, a few tens of nanometers in size. That'd put them in the 30-60nm range. Intel's currently making chips on a 90nm process, and intends to start making them on a 65nm process by the end of the year.

    That's not a 1/100x size improvement
  10. Laws of physics by DigiShaman · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Moore's Law *will* hit the barrier. You cannot make something out matter smaller then an atom.

    Next step wont be evolutionary, but revolutionary. This is when we get into quantum computing.

    --
    Life is not for the lazy.
    1. Re:Laws of physics by PakProtector · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Moore's Law *will* hit the barrier. You cannot make something out matter smaller then an atom. Next step wont be evolutionary, but revolutionary. This is when we get into quantum computing.

      I thought you couldn't make something out of matter smaller than an atom, eh?

      I guess I'm going to have to go disappoint all those quantum computation researchers.

      --

      Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
      man: no entry for woman in the manual.
      "Qua!?"

    2. Re:Laws of physics by hobbesx · · Score: 2, Funny
      I guess I'm going to have to go disappoint all those quantum computation researchers


      Why do I get the feeling that if you can find them, you won't be able to affect their momentum?

      --
      This rating is Unfair ( ) ( ) Fair (*) Funny
      Sigh... If only. Modding would be so much more fun.
  11. Re:size vs heat in 50 years by ajs318 · · Score: 5, Informative

    What you have to remember about heat is that electronics only get hot because they are never perfect conductors nor perfect insulators {though we can make nearer-perfect insulators than we can conductors}. A perfect conductor will never get hot, no matter how much current you put through it, because the voltage drop across it will be nil and power = voltage * current. Nor will a perfect insulator, because this time, the current through it will be nil.

    CMOS is based around two transistors, a P-channel FET which goes conductive when the gate is driven low, and an N-channel FET which goes conductive when the gate is driven high. The P-FET is trying to pull the output high and the N-FET is trying to pull it low. Both the gates are joined together, and this is the input. This is a simple NOT gate.

    For a NAND gate, where any input 0 will drive the output to a 1, we have several P-FETs in parallel trying to drive the output high, and so many N-FETs in series trying to drive the output low. Each P-FET gate joined to an N-FET gate is one input. When they are all high, all the N-FETs turn on allowing the output to go low; when any one is low, the chain of N-FETs is broken, one or more P-FETs turn on, and the output goes high. For a NOR gate, where any input 1 will drive the output to a 0, we put the Ns in parallel and the Ps in series. You can make AND gates from NAND+NOT, OR gates from NOR+NOT, and any other combination you like. In fact you really don't need both NAND and NOR, because you can make either one out of the other; but it turns out they're equally as easy to make as each other in CMOS {not like many other technologies}.

    In an ideal world this would never dissipate any power, since the input cannot be high and low at the same time so only one of the transistors will ever be on. In practice what happens is that the gates act like capacitors which take a finite time to charge and discharge. They do not switch instantaneously from conductive to non-conductive. So one stops conducting while the other is starting to conduct, and for a brief instant while the inputs are changing state both transistors are conducting a little. It's not a dead short circuit of course, otherwise something would give way ..... hopefully a fuse.

    Now every time something changes state, you get a little pulse of heat. Which is why fast processors need cooling. Additionally, to make sure that the logic gate output has changed state before the next clock pulse, you need to make the gate capacitances charge up quickly -- which means using a higher voltage than you could get away with at lower speeds. But 2x more volts means 2x more amps means 4x more watts.

    Smaller transistors should have less gate capacitance, and so be capable of switching more quickly.

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  12. Re:size vs heat in 50 years by Xaositecte · · Score: 2, Informative

    *Sigh*

    No. Decreasing the size of something -increases- the surface area compared to the volume of the object, increasing it's overall ability to dissipate heat.

    http://www.me.umn.edu/education/courses/me5221/Tut orials/Scaling/scaling.html%5BUniversity of Minnesota, Mechanical engineering]

    Get your physics straight.

  13. Diamonds in the dirt by Silver+Sloth · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Dateline 21st February 1953

    Scientists today revealed the molecular structure of DNA. It is theorised that this may revolutionise medical research and forensic science (and posibly Apple Pie).

    And I bet someone said back then all they've done is describe the molecule.

    --
    init 11 - for when you need that edge.
  14. Nano Tubes by devphaeton · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yeah, but i still bet nothing switches data as warmly as vacuum tubes...... /me snickers, waits for it.

    --


    do() || do_not(); // try();
  15. Re:100nm? by sleepingsquirrel · · Score: 3, Informative
    Am I missing something here?
    Yes. The 65nm refers to the transistors gate length, which is only a small portion of the transistor. See some transistor cross-sections. Look at the first diagram, look at the red colored rectangle above and between the two blue regions labeled "S" and "D" (for "Source" and "Drain"). That red part is the gate.
  16. Re:smallish? by TMacPhail · · Score: 2, Informative

    You've interpreted "a few hundred millionths of a meter" incorrectly. The correct way to do it is:
    one hundred millionth of a meter = 1m/100,000,000 = 10nm
    Not one hundred millionths of a meter = 100 * 1m/1,000,000 = 100um

  17. Re:size vs heat in 50 years by Kythe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is a very good summary.

    One additional factor that needs to be added, though, is that as MOSFET transistors scale towards smaller and smaller features, leakage current becomes a larger and larger problem. Basically, at extremely small sizes, quantum effects start to become significant, and electrons randomly tunnel from one end to the other.

    The larger the leakage current, the more is lost to heat.

    It remains to be seen how large a problem leakage current is with the new tube transistors. If it's not a big problem, then one of the major obstacles towards reducing feature size on integrated circuits will have been addressed.

    --

    Kythe
  18. It's all in the details, whatever they are by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 2, Informative

    it would be nice if TFA had a few facts comparing these to current transistors. Just being "small" isnt good enough. Quite a few things have to also be in the right range to make them competitive, such as voltage swing, current gain, switching speed, reliability, feedthrough and feedback capacitance, and probably more. And it's a bit presumptuous for anybody to extrapolate these things along the same improvement curve as transistors and IC's.

  19. Don't get me wrong... by teutonic_leech · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... I'm all over nanotech - have myself been attending Foresight Institute meetings regularly for the last decade. BUT, since the early nineties I've seen dozens of research papers promising new types of transistors and thus far the problem seems to be mass manufacturing of any of these approaches. What works in the lab is one thing - making a commercial product is another. So, don't get your hopes up to 'upgrade' to a nanochip any time soon ;-) Nevertheless, we're heading in the right direction - this type of research caters to the VC community which is already investing heavily into privately funded nanotech related companies. Heaven knows - here in the U.S. we desperately need this type of research, may it be academically or privately driven. China, Japan, Korea, India, etc.. are catching up quickly and we already lost the race in the biotech and genetic engineering department.

  20. Robert Frost by threaded · · Score: 2, Funny

    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.

  21. do more with less by wimp_org · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Now that you mentioned SCIAM.
    There is an article in the august issue of Scientific American about magnetologic gates. This mentions that instead of making transistors smaller so you can put more of them in the same space. You could also try achieve the same functions using less elements.

    magnetologic gates are based on the MRAM technology. With some modifications the designs for MRAM can be used to create logic gates that are much more efficient and powerfull then CMOS based transistors.
    With only 1 magnetologic gate you could create a AND, OR, NOR or NAND function. with 2 gates you can create a XOR function with would require 8 to 14 CMOS transistors. The 'full adder', the most used unit in a processor used to add two binary inputs, can be created with only 3 gates instead of 16 CMOS transistors.
    So using magnetologic gates you can achieve the same kind of processing power improvement without using smaller units.

    These magnetologic gates have some other advantages. They are non-volatile so they remember/store the result of the last calculation performed and reading out this value does not delete the information. This means that the overall calculation can be performed faster and it also enables parallel or clockless execution of operations.

    Magnetologic gates can be reprogrammed like FPGA's. But unlike FPGA's switching between different functionalities takes just billions of a second. This ability to morph (which is the main focus of this article) radically reduces the amount of transistors needed in a processor. Since all function are hardwired in a normal CMOS processor, at any given time only a few percent of the transistors are actually used. If you could change the function of your elements with every operation, you could perform the same scala of different funtions with just a few elements.

    If this technology will progress it could bypass the miniaturization efforts.

  22. Let's Get Small Again by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "the progenitor was a simple integrated circuit with two transistors in 1958 ... [w]e are probably at the same stage with Y-junctions"

    Intel debuted the 4004, the first commodity microprocessor chip, in 1971 with 2300 transistors. That's 13 years, during which we had a space race (and Minuteman missile program) to stimulate investment. Today we have $trillions in returns on chip investment as stimulus, as well as an existing investment/manufacturing/marketing infrastructure. As well as highly useful micron-scale chips and software for design. So perhaps we're looking at a breakthrough "nanoprocessor" sometime earlier than 2028.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  23. Meanwhile by Julian+Morrison · · Score: 3, Funny

    Senior figures in the Bush administration were in talks with scientists, to see if a way could be found to fit these "naked" transistors with trousers.