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Virtual Muggings in Lineage II

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the i-need-my-widgets-back dept.

electro-donkey writes "A man has been arrested in Japan after on suspicion using a bot to beat up and rob characters in the online computer game Lineage II. The stolen virtual possessions were then exchanged for real cash, according to this report from NewScienist.com. "I regularly say that every form of theft and fraud in the real world will eventually be duplicated in cyberspace," says Bruce Schneier."

21 of 745 comments (clear)

  1. Where the fault lies... by bigwavejas · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This sounds more like an issue with game design. The whole fact you're able to mug someone in-game makes this a non-crime. If the developers are worried about mugging then they should take the "looting other Player Characters (PC)" out of the game. It seems to me the only thing "wrong" this guy did was use a Bot (making his PC unbeatable). Show me where in the manual is says, "If you use a Bot you will be arrested." If they (Lineage II) don't want Bots in-game, then track down the offenders, ban their accounts and give the loot back to the rightful owners.

    --
    "Simplify, simplify, simplify!" Thoreau
    1. Re:Where the fault lies... by TrippTDF · · Score: 4, Interesting

      NOW we get into an arena of virtual ethics. Yes, this guy could comit a crime in-game based on the rules (features?) of the game, but what he did is still ethically wrong.

      Now, it is up to the government to decide if an in-game crime is a real crime or not, and THEN they need to decide if the company that built the game can be held responsible for using a rule-system that allowed for the crime to happen. Remember, these are suddenly real-world tax dollars fighting a problem that could be solved through changing the rules of the game. As a taxpayer, I vote for that option.

    2. Re:Where the fault lies... by Nuttles1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I am assumming the poster is not a programmer. Programming is a complex task! I don't think online games will ever be hack proof. It is more like the real world, an arms race between the game programmers and the exploiters.

      A simple solution to this mugging problem that I use is having LAN parties. I think they are more enjoyable because you know who your playing and you don't have to worry about hacking. Well, if someone hacks the game, then you can simply get up and beat his a@@.

    3. Re:Where the fault lies... by billster0808 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If in game crime is real crime, I hope the cops don't catch me playing GTA. I killed a few hookers in there today.

    4. Re:Where the fault lies... by jacem · · Score: 5, Interesting

      IANAL and I am definatly not a Japanese Lawyer but I think that the issue is that the individual commited fraud and made money off of it. It is the last bit that is so important. There have been other articals on /. about the real world money side of online games as well as the murders By using a bot the defendant fraudulently came into possesions of real value in the game world and sold them for real value.
      I don't know how seriously the courts should take this but it is going to set some very funky presidence.

      JACEM

      --
      DOC Disinformation Obfuscation and Confusion
      The carrot to FUD's stick
    5. Re:Where the fault lies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting
      He should be sent to jail in the fantasy world, surely?

      Exactly!!

      I have always thought that 'crimes' in online games should be reported to the 'police' (ie: game masters or whatever they call them)), investigated (looking at logs, etc), and then punished. THe punishment is simply- a certain number of hours/days in jail. To make it better, the character MUST be logged in for that time, and randome questions requiring answers would pop up to ensure the player is actually there, and not just letting his account idle while at work or something. Having to sit view the inside of a jail cell for 24 (gameplaying) hours would be a good deterrent, I think. ANd them you can throw a die to see if the charactr gets back all his stuff afterwards. ;-)

    6. Re:Where the fault lies... by fm6 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The whole fact you're able to mug someone in-game makes this a non-crime.
      Nonsense. The game designers can allow some muggings and not others. If the player agreed not to operate a bot when he signed up for the game, then using a bot to mug other players is a no-no. Not because mugging is illegal in the real world, but because he broke the rule against bots.
    7. Re:Where the fault lies... by southpolesammy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem isn't player looting, because by playing the game, they accept that risk. Even selling those items on the real market for real cash isn't the problem, although it's ethically gray.

      The problem is the players using bots or hacks to deny other players' enjoyment of the game. It's still probably not illegal, but it's against the spirit of the game and will ultimately result in players leaving the game, meaning a loss of revenue to the game hosts. The only way to combat this is for developers to ban bots/hacks from taking away from player enjoyment under penalty of banning the player that uses the bot/hack. But in essence, this isn't theft or fraud because it's basically a zero sum game.

      Now if the bots/hacks are being used by the game hosts to steal items or playing time that players have paid for, now you no longer have a zero sum game, and there is definitely fraud involved.

      --
      Rule #1 -- Politics always trumps technology.
    8. Re:Where the fault lies... by squiggleslash · · Score: 2, Interesting
      First, let me say that I think this entire debate is couched in too simplistic terms. If I cheat at poker, then it's certainly possible to envisage a situation where I'd be charged with fraud. That said, this is a computer game and the scope of the computer game is supposed to be the game itself, even if people do sell imaginary items from it on eBay.

      On the subject of your analogy though: if you mug people in the real world, you end up jailed.

      Perhaps the game would be fairer and work correctly if it happened that when your imaginary character imaginarily mugged another imaginary person, it was put in an imaginary jail.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    9. Re:Where the fault lies... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually MUDs (the precursor to MMORPGs) came up with the concept of jail. Better yet, the more evil you were, the more the reward went up for your capture.

      Of course, people then went around being deliberately evil, ran up the bounty, then logged in their good character, and had the good one kill the bad one for the reward.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  2. How is this illegal? by th0mas.sixbit.org · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How is this illegal?

    Certainly he broke the EULA by using a bot.

    Certainly he broke the in-game rules by beating up and robbing people.

    But.. it's a game. They didn't get mugged, their characters did. I can see how the company could, say, return the items to the original owners.. but charged?

    --
    twitter.com/gravitronic
    1. Re:How is this illegal? by man_of_mr_e · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, while true, not as true as you think it is. Japan has much lower stats because they don't report the same way as other countries do. For example, Domestic abuse is not really considered a crime there (it is, but it's largely ignored).

      --
      If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
  3. 3. Someone will go to jail for stealing... by Shea_Butter · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Reminds me of an article posted about how MMORPG's will eventually take over the world. If the object has real world value and takes time and work to obtain, shouldn't it be a crime to steal it?

  4. Real life crime will be more dramatic than online by ReformedExCon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Case in point, I'm watching real police arresting real people who are protesting the real pullout of the Israelis from the Gaza Strip. Nowhere online will you find anyone so attached to items, parcels of land, or characters that they are willing to risk their real lives to protect them.

    It is foolish to think that anything online is in any way reflective of real life. There is an offensive, yet quite insightful comic strip which shows a normal guy+anonymity+audience= a troll. Put someone in a video game where there is no real punishment for actions which would get them in trouble in real life, and you'll end up with a bunch of people willing to kill, rob, join gangs, and a host of other activities that are frowned on in real life. It doesn't help that the games themselves promote this sort of activity.

    One of the obvious concepts that arises from that view is that online "crime" ought not be policed with real life authorities. This arrest is wrong, and sets a bad precedent. The game companies themselves ought to be up in arms against this action. It takes away their authority to enforce in-game rules, and gives excessive power to the police.

    --
    Jesus saved me from my past. He can save you as well.
  5. Re:Is this a crime?(me after all) by Transcendor · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've read my comment and came to the conclusion that there could be a crime. The selling of property, virtual or physically present, you have no right to possess could be judged as crime under certain circumstances - and judications. (I don't know how it is for example in the US or here in Germany)
    So if there is a civil process in which it is decided that the botter actually took advantage of the lack of ability / knowledge to do something against his bot (however that trial could work), it'd be a case of fraud. mmh..
    It's unethical anyways-
    ---
    Be fair. Don't bite the hand that does not feed you.

  6. WAIT A MINUTE - Is this REALLY 100% virtual?? by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Look, we are now in a society where our virtual "possessions" can garner real-world cash. If I own something in a virtual world, and someone offers me $500 in real-world cash to "sell" it to him virtually, does that now make the transaction a virtual one or a legal one? I believe that it now makes it legal because actual money was involved.

    Let say that a +2 jewelled sword of ogre beheading in the virtual world goes for $500 on eBay. The agreement is that after the payment takes place, your virtual buyer meet up in the virtual world and you give your virtual sword to the virtual buyer and virtually part ways. But you still have real-world $500 in your bank or PayPal account.

    Someone else sees that transaction on eBay and decides to sell his +4 jewelled sword of ogre beheading. But before he can do that, some asshole comes in and steals that sword virtually. If in the real world that sword could have fetched $750, then stealing that sword virtually might be accountable as theft in the real-world because there is now a real-world precedence (of at least $500) that virtual items cost real money.

    When someone steals something in real life, a crime has been committed and insurance will pay for it based on its market value. If that virtual item has real-world, market value, is it still strictly a virtual value because there was no physical, tangible item? The theft of those items could have cost their "owners" real-world cash if they decided to sell.

    That's really what the Japanese court needs to decide. The thief did sell for real-world money, after all, so the whole theft is the theft truly virtual? I would say that once it was sold for cold, hard cash, it lost its "virtual" status and was then subject to applicable laws - in this case Japanese laws and possibly the laws of the country where the victim resides.

    Just my two cents. Convert that into your currency as necessary.

    --
    The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
  7. Newsflash: Virtual thief goes to virtual jail... by drgonzo59 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The problem is also with people willing to pay their money for virtual property. What's next, they'll ask their county to issue them a deed and start financing the "virtual" house through their bank? Come on people, if you pay money for "virtual property" and someone steals, then they commit "virtual theft" - that is theft that is not real. It is _you_ that make theh problem real _for yourself_ by putting your "real" cash into it, so get over it.

    Or I like the idea of some Slashdotter that said to put the thief in a virtual jail. Make his character sit in a virtual jail and get virtual bread and water and get virtually pounded in the arse every day. If the virtual world is "real" enough to invest money into it, a jail in a virtual world is just as "real".

  8. Racketering by DeeSnider · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Friends and I used to debate this all the time in Ultima Online. What if we sold someone a virtual weapon, say, on e-bay, exchanged it in-game, but had a gank squad waiting to mug him seconds later for the same weapon? After asking lots of pre-law friends, we came to the conclusion that, while definately a grey area, that it probably was illegal, and could be charged as racketering. Basically the problem lies in whether or not he intended to deprive someone of real world assets before hand. My guess is that was exactly his intent, and if so, I'm not sure he'll get off as scot free as we might think. Personally I'm suprised it took this long for such a well publicized case to come up.

  9. Nothing more than racism. by neo · · Score: 4, Interesting


    Quoting the article:
    The Chinese exchange student was arrested by police in Kagawa prefecture, southern Japan, the Mainichi Daily News reports.

    I bet if it was a Japanse kid this wouldn't have happened. They're just using some Chinese exchange student as a scape goat.

  10. Here is a post from youvstheworld.com by veganopolis · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I read this story, and the post on /. this morning, so I thought I would copy you guys on this:

    From: motherlessgoat

    How did we become like this? Some guy in Japan wrote a bot for the game Lineage II and goes around mugging other players and taking their crap. Well, the guy who wrote the bot started selling his "winnings" on a Japanese auction site for real money. Then he was arrested for stealing!!! GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

    It's time to get real folks. Let's start with the obvious problem with this situation:

    Who on Earth would pay real money for pixilated crap? I know this is becoming popular now a-days. In fact, I recently read an article about this. How in these virtual worlds you could be a rich king and live the best life, even though you share a one bedroom apartment with your mother and her lesbian lover. Hi Dad!

    Any takers for the "decline of Western civilization" theories here? Is this really what freedom is all about? Is this what we are all working so hard for? Is this something we should ignore? Is it like porn or drugs and we should just turn the other cheek when we hear about it?

    Why are we having our public law enforcers tracking these guys down? The guy build a software bot and let it loose within the confines of the game. According to the game architecture this is completely legal. If this was such a big deal, why didn't the makers of Lineage II stop this from happening. Shouldn't they take responsibility for things like this? Why did the guy who built the bot take the heat? This is probably what upsets me the most. And we see this all the time. Remember when MP3s were the big rage? Or downloading movies from Limewire? Why should the government enforce a company's copyright? Don't you think that is a waste of tax payer dollars? Shouldn't those companies take responsibility for protecting their assets?

    I don't know about the rest of you, but I actually care what happens to my tax dollars. And I for one can't stand to see it abused like this. This mindset must change. But how? It's called reform and there are plenty of people trying to change things. It is ok to question your government, your laws, and your traditions.

    For any of you still interested, here is the article about the guy who wrote the bot and how he got arrested: http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7865

    You can read motherlessgoat's post here: http://youvstheworld.com/virtual_muggings_in_linea ge_ii

  11. combination of factors is illegal by GunFodder · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Playing poker isn't illegal. I believe playing poker for money isn't illegal either, in an informal setting; I'm not sure about that though. Cheating while playing a game is crummy, but not illegal. Cheating while playing a game for money is fraud, and is most definitely illegal.

    Player killing is legal in an online game, and cheating is crummy but also legal. However if cheating leads to financial gain then it is fraud, and is illegal. I wonder if this chain of logic can be used to discourage cheating in online games?