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Bill Would Let Police Monitor Email
Duuk2k2 writes "The Canadian federal cabinet will review new legislation this fall that would give police and security agencies vast powers to begin surveillance of the Internet without court authority. The new measures would allow law-enforcement agents to intercept personal e-mails, text messages and possibly even password-secure websites used for purchasing and financial transactions."
Sometimes cops better judgment gets clouded because of the situation (relationship to the victim, gravity of the crime, etc), so the whole point of making it mandatory for a court order is you get an unbiased approval or denial for this type of surveillance. Turning this authority over to the police department would be a great disservice to sanctity of an individual's privacy.
"Simplify, simplify, simplify!" Thoreau
Not a chance of this happenning. The minority government would not dare to this, especially that there is an election looming within the next 9 months.
Because the bad guys would NEVER use encryption or even just offhand references to something in their planning that they transmit over an open, public medium, right?
It's not offtopic at all. It seems to me that the possibility of abuse is precisely the topic here.
Canadians are lucky that their goverment has such a deep understanding of technologies like encryption otherwise this would just be a pointless intrusion into the privacy of citizens and non-citizens alike.
Dan Brown's book addresses this very issue. The one line that echoes in my head when reading this story is a line from the novel.
"Who will guard the guards?"
Who will control what information will be read, not read, logged, not logged and who will police any corruption that is bound to happen?
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Whenever you interact with a cop, the pig is on the lookout for whatever reason to haul you in. Hence the validity of the admonition of never engaging conversation with a cop.
And they will go to great lengths to get what they want, be it scaremongering about policicos ("we don't have the tools to fight child pr0n" or whatever heinous crime du jour is) or the public at large.
And they think absolutely nothing about freedoms and liberty, except as a major hindrance to do their "investigation" of crime.
... so let's get rid of it.
- scsg
That easy, are you sure? If the police can intercept your e-mail, then most likely it will become forbidden to encrypt it - or the allowed encryption level will be far too weak to be usable. Or... if they happen to intercept your e-mail and they can't figure out the encryption, they may hold it against you and send you to court. And so on. The possibilities (of awful stuff happening) are endless. And once again, the whole mass of citizens will suffer in order to get protected. Meanwhile, crime and terrorism will have no problems finding ways to circumvent all this protection crap. So basically, you haven't got any more protection, you have no privacy left and what's more, you voted for all that. Yay.
I think he realizes this. he's just pointing out that using encryption may not be a magical answer to this problem..
that is, the problem being that the government is giving power to the police to breach privacy. whether they do it before or after encryption doesn't matter.
And sometimes had out warrants when they shouldn't. The lack of bias isn't important, the fact that there's a record is. If an officer has to come and present a reason for a warrant (the reason gets recorded) then there's a record. The warrant and related information is kept in the court record, and can be later reviewed to determine if the search was improper.
With something like this the police could just keep it all hush-hush and then make shit up at a later date to justif it. Since there's no record to compare it to see if it's the truth. Far too easy for someone to say "Well we had all this evidence so we started monitoring him and look! We were right" when the actuality was they had no evidence at all.
For all the crap and dubious decisionmaking that goes on in American government, including the present folly in Iraq, the U.S. remains the best place on earth.
Granted, there are few if any guarantees, when one is down and hard on one's luck.
On the other hand, no has to discover that those guarantees are hollow, and empty promises either, delivered to some pro-forma, but hardly guaranteed to all.
And, most of all, no one goes around robbing you blind (tax-wise) to pay for those undelivered guarantees, to the extent that you can't pay for them yourself even if you otherwise could (nevermind that spending your own money for your own welfare is illegal in some cases in Canada, particularly when it comes to "universal" healthcare -- unfair to the poor, you see).
Liberty doesn't come cheap -- it exposes one to all the risks and uncertainties life brings. But, it sure does taste sweet.
How long Canadians will continue to put up with their guilded cage, the gilt long worn off, is anyone's guess. But, if they wake up, 't ain't gonna be perty.
You could've hired me.
Good point, but one flaw: You're quoting the media. I've read some articles today from a different source that conflicts with your position, that says they are indeed asking for the elimination of court orders.
So who's right? Don't trust the media. Go right to the source. So who where do we find the text of the bill?
Buying a Dell computer is equivalent to dropping the soap in a prison shower.
"U.S. remains the best place on earth"
... did the U.S. government repeal Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes while I wasn't looking. Last I heard you were still paying heft
Well at least in the eyes of Americans who are completely stuck on themselves and their country.
"best place on earth" is a totally subjective statement. I think you should probably qualify with "I think the U.S. remains the best place on earth". That would a be a true statement apparently. Without the "I think" part a few billion people would probably be willing to argue your point and would have a valid case. Different people value different things, apparently you value America as it today, many others would not.
Since 9/11, DMCA and the disappearance of the certainty of due process in the U.S. many people are simply refusing to even visit the U.S. for conferences and the like. If its so great why would that be?
I might have agreed with you before 2000 that the U.S. was one of the best places in the world. The Constitution our founders created was a remarkable document that laid a foundation for a remarkable and unique nation. They hoped it would last, they did everything they could to protect it, but they thoroughly expected it to be torn asunder by despots. The one thing they couldn't prevent was complete indifference on the part of the American people to the precious nature of that document.
Now it is in tatters and the U.S. is heading towards the same gutters where all the world's police states live, not very remarkable at all anymore. In the U.S. you can now be arrested and detained indefinitely without charge, without access to a lawyer or family, without trial. You can be tortured or killed while detained and no one will ever know unless a brave whistleblower steps forward. The government is detaining people in complete secrecy, people are being disappeared just like they were in Pinochet's Chile. Worse people are being snatched by the U.S. around the globe, in violation of international law and being whisked away for indefinite torture and interrogation by Rendition. You can be spied upon, the government can monitor your reading habits at the library or bookstore, they can do sneak and peak searches where they basically the break in to your home, and rummage through your belonging without you ever knowing. The government has fabricated "terrorism" cases against innocent people, in particular in Detroit two Arab men were convicted of terrorism charges based on a home video of their trip to Disneyland and the word of a conman who testified against them in return for reduced charges from the government. The conmen admitted he'd lied in a jailhouse confession which is the only reason these two innocent men aren't in jail today and we know the extent of the governments sham trials. Sham trials are another characteristic of a police state.
It seems the executive in the U.S. has in fact taken unto itself every dictatorial power you would need for a police state. They are using some restraint in applying them, especially focusing their malevolence on Muslims, so the U.S. doesn't look or feel like a police state, especially if you aren't Muslim, but if the executive branch felt like it nothing is really stopping them. If there is another 9/11 class incident to justify it I am confident the U.S. could descend in to martial law in a heart beat. The executive has drawn up all the plans for it.
About the only thing left that is not a dictatorship is we still have elections and could throw the people in power out, assuming the elections aren't rigged. But, police states have elections too, they just rig them so they aren't really elections, they are just a con to make people think they still have some power. After major irregularities in 2000, 2002 and 2004 it is quite open to debate if we do in fact still have free, democratic elections.
"And, most of all, no one goes around robbing you blind (tax-wise) to pay for those undelivered guarantees"
Damn
@de_machina
"Can you spend your money on medicinal marijuana in the US.....You can in California"
You might want to read up on Gonzales v. Raich. As best I recall on June 6, 2005 the Supreme court once again dramatically expanded the power of the Federal government over states and individuals and completely mangled the Commerce clause in the Constitution, to give the Federal government the power to override states which have legalized medical marijuana or in fact any controlled substance laws the Feds don't approve of.
In another great recent decision the Supreme court gave governments at all levels the green light to seize your property and turn it over to other private individuals. The end result is a developer can now corrupt local officials and get them to seize your land and home and give it to him, saving him the hinderence of having to buy it for not being able to buy it all if you don't want to sell. In the People's Republic of China one of the more common sources of local protests is corrupt party official seizing peoples homes and turning it over to developer friends. It appears the U.S. and China now have one more thing in common.
To be honest I really don't get how you can have such vitriol to Canada and such praise for the U.S. I've lived in both and in most respects Canada is the nicer of the two places. They both have serious flaws, but the big plus for Canada is they aren't seeking to create a global empire, so they are a substantially less arrogant people.
You really seem to have a problem with socialized medicine, well in the U.S. its selectively socialized. One big problem with the U.S. is there are something like 40 million uninsured people and the number is skyrocketing with the cost of health care and insurances, along with employers slashing insurance coverage to save money. Given these two choices:
A. Socialized medicine in Canada with waiting lines, rationing etc
B. Being uninsured in America where a major illness will completely wipe you out or you may in fact be denied care all together.
I think I would take A. Obviously having gold plated insurance in America is best but ever larger numbers of don't.
@de_machina
"Canadians, in contrast, appear to be too busy eating their own bullshit to notice how bad it tastes."
Well all I can say to that is you seem to be describing yourself more than your country or countrymen. You have been really slinging some bullshit about the U.S. I don't think most Americans would even buy, and trashing Canada to an extent I don't think most of your countrymen would even recognizing you are talking about Canada.
"As for the taxes, Google "Canadian Revenue Agency" and compare."
Dude the IRS is just as bad as Revenue Canada if not worse. The one thing I can say for Canada is their tax forms and laws are dramatically simpler, I way preferred them over U.S. tax filing, while it sounds like you enjoying working all the loopholes like deducting your mortgage expenses. The problem with the U.S. tax code is its been so butchered by Congress that if you are a ruthless, rich SOB with a good accountant you pay nothing, while most ordinary people take it in the nose.
From the little I've read of your life history I'm willing to bet you had bad experiences in Canada and it left a bitter taste in your mouth so you moved to the U.S. So far you haven't had any bad experiences of the same level in the U.S. so you think its heaven on earth. Most immigrants have this attitude until something bad happens in their new homeland. I wager many Muslim immigrants were singing praises of the U.S. 5 years ago and now have seen the reality that the U.S. has a very dark side.
I assure you the government, tax enforcement, people in general the U.S is just as bad or worse than Canada, you just haven't had a head on with it yet. I hope you never do but you really are kidding yourself if you think the U.S. is inherently superior, it just ain't so. America is richer and more powerful, so maybe if you are in to that I could see your point, but acting like the U.S. has a statue of liberty on every corner is delusional.
@de_machina
Hi!
When you start lying on slashdot, you should exclude details, because you kinda got mixed up.
First of all, you claim that life was good as a teen in the middle to late 70's. In the same paragraph, a few lines later, you claim that the situation got so bad in 1975 that your mother had to go back to working. Now now, correct me if I'm wrong, but 1975 is quite in the middle 70's, no?
Second, how come your american daughter goes to school in Canada? It's pretty clear you have not moved back 'home' yet, because people were downright mean 'last time you were in Canada' and not 'last time I moved back to Canada'. As a sidenote, every province spends a lot of money on public education each year and we don't consider american schools as 'rich schools', really.
Based on these two statements you just pulled out of your ass, I assume that the rest of your article is also based on totally fictious facts. This text has absolutely no value at all. Now resume reading www.invadecanada.us as your post gets modded all the way back to -1, troll. Thanks for your disinformation.
Your attacks on Islam are simply false. Your labelling of people as 'Jihadis' is a horrible deception. Jihad means 'inner struggle'. It's a term that refers to one's battle of good vs evil. There are no such thing as 'Jihadis' except for in the right-wing media. And who claimed that the attacks were targetting places that gave loans to women? The right-wing media. Who won't let women drive? Who puts them in tents? You are so full of shit it's not funny. Are you a republican senator or something?
... particularly a 30 year-old one that hasn't been fit to fly for the past 20 years.
... I do plently. I'm a member of a local peace group as well as the International Socialist Organisation. I educate people about the real reasons why terrorism exists. I argue for a more just world.
As for putting women in charge of Space Shuttles ( no idea why you capitalised those 2 words ), so fucking what? In Islamic countries, the percentage of women that get a university degree is higher than in the US. What's so good about being 'in charge' of a space shuttle anyway
As for not doing a thing
There's no point in beating your chest and claiming "I Am American, and I will Save the World!", at any cost. To save the world fron the next atrocity, you have to understand why atrocities happen. To do that, have to go beyond the neo-conservative, anti-Islamic propoganda and look at what your country has done to create the current situation.
Steganography is an arms race. The technique you describe is easily detectable today (low-order color bits have differect statstical patterns than compressed or encrypred data). The techniques that aren't detectable today are probably going to be easy to detect in five to ten years. A disturbing thought given how easily the police could archive your email for later review.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.