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Charges Against High School Hackers Dropped
ZosX writes "According to eSchool News Online, the 13 students from Kutztown, PA originally charged with felonies for hacking have been given a deal, dropping charges in exchange for 15 hours of community service. From the article: 'The probation department realizes this is small potatoes,' said William Bispels, an attorney representing nearly half the accused students. This is great news for the students and their families."
Jeez, let's all register at "eSchool News". Sigh. Talk about minimum effort editing.
They had a moronic school willing to proceed with this stupidity, and they're still at this school I presume? Going to a school where those in power have a severe mental handicap doesn't sound like good news to me. Having the possibility of a felony raised and it taking THIS LONG to and public uproar to dismiss this stupidity doesn't seem like good news to me.
Good news would be the principal and any police involved in this over-reaction getting an official reprimand.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
I mean grafitti... But the real question is: did this bring out the real curiosity in them or will this forever stop them from exploring computers further?
-Palal
but that they really don't stand much of a chance of conviction by jury.
Not to mention how silly they look.
KFG
Give a kid something he's not supposed to get into, and he'll try to get into it. Period. Be stupid about it, and he will get into it.
What these kids did sounds like the battle happening between many corporate IT-departments and employees.
Corporate IT departments erect all kinds of barriers for users to use certain applications and generally don't explain why these barriers are there. The most common answer I have gotten was: "Security". ICT-security is in my jobtitle and I know these guys were bullshitting me. Other things you hear are maintence, complexity or my favourite one: "It is our policy" and "The department heads agreed on this".
This is a battle that has gone on ever since we started with computers in the workplace. Invariably the result was that people worked around the ivory tower that controlled IT and got what they wanted some way or another (PC's got bought on office supplies budgets in the early eighties, they were forbidden by the high priests of mainframes) Invariably after prolonged fights the users win.
I currently see the following problems around me, where corporate IT erects barries, that people go around. In most cases corporate IT should enable it in such a way it is safe, or explain very well why it is not allowed at the moment, or at all:
- Banning of Instant Messaging
- Filtering of websites beyond porn
- Banning any Palm-like device, except the corporate one.
- disabling USB ports.
- disabling Wifi
- banning alternative browsers and all kinds of utilities.
- limiting the size of mailboxes
- disallowing or crippling desktop search
- disallowing or crippling streaming media
- Creating lengthy processes for getting new software on your desktop
Use Adsense for Charity
The general consensus is that the authorities in the US have become too strict, especially with "intellectual property", "the war on drugs", and "computer crimes".
They are basically making themselves a laughing stock internationally - the Canadian public doesn't seem impressed by what the current US adminsitration is doing, or how they are handling these issues.Things like this would not happen in any other industrial, civilized G7 democracy, like Canada for example.
It's quite shocking that the authorities are punishing students for using passwords - that they were given!Liberal Ontarians and French Quebecers are draining Western Canada's wealth. Stop them now! Support Western separatism.
I'm glad they're dropping the charges, but seriously, shouldn't this be a civil matter, not a felony?
For those that haven't followed the story, here is the link to a site representing the student's side of the story: http://www.cutusabreak.org/
A word of advice from somebody a lot older: save this kind of stuff for your own systems. If you want to get involved with sysadmin stuff then you should start by gaining the trust of the people who run your school systems.
I can see that you are talented, but your admin people are just going to come down on you for it.
Oh, and don't brag about your accomplishments, even as AC. Word gets around. Remember the really smart people keep this kind of information to themselves.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
So here this guy goes pointing out how ridiculous the situation is, and how it is a nice example of US authorities having become too strict. That's not exactly rocket science, it's been said many times before that USAmericans are too sue-happy and that authorities don't have the wits to understand technology - often leading to ridiculous situations (software patents, anyone?).
And just because he said he's Canadian it's modded flamebait! I hate to break it to you, but this is a real problem is the USA, and it isn't a problem in most of the rest of the western world. So instead of silencing those who criticize you, perhaps you should let them speak, so that the situation may be improved?
If this were only one incident, I wouldn't bother to post this, but I'm fed up with americans sticking their heads in the sand and telling those trying to educate them to piss off.
Nice example: the Europeans who wrote letters before the last elections, arguing why people shouldn't vote for Bush. Guess what happened? The reaction was: piss off I'm not gonna let you tell me what to vote. Not an unnatural reaction, really, but it's very sad considering how ignorant many Americans are about the rest of the world. So here the rest of the world comes and tries to educate them, and their arguments aren't even considered. Now that's ignorant and smug about it!
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Parent and Grandparent were likely only punished by the institution they were attending not by the courts...
These kids will have their lives ruined by this if they ever want to do anything in IT requiring any sort of security, i have held jobs which required a police background check where any form of hacking (and several other things) no matter how small would have prevented me from being employed.
Thank god my school decided to punish me by requiring that I assisted the IT administrator for 1 hour every school day for 1 semester.
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own" - Adam Savage
Please note that using that login constitutes felony computer trespass.
Although I know your response was a joke, I think that what happened here was basically executed perfectly.
The kids repeatedly violated guidelines that were put in place by people with the authority to put those guidelines there. Regardless of whether the measures used to enforce those guidelines were sufficient to deter activity simply by the strength of the restraints or not is unimportant. I can drive my car over the dotted yellow line in the road too if I want, and I can make my car go above the speed limit; that doesn't make it the state's fault when I careen through oncoming traffic at 120 mph.
Obviously the early traditional reprimands failed to make an impact on the students. What they needed was a good scare, and I think this is what they got. Settling on 15 hours of community service each kid doesn't sound like the prosecuting attorney(ies) ever really intended to send these kids to jail, it sounds to me like they wanted to make the kids fully aware that when you choose to violate guidelines, there are consequences (at least when you're caught, especially when you're flagrant in the actions). And I doubt, when faced with the prospect of jail time, that any of these kids failed to get that message.
Further, the message was probably received by more than just the kids involved, it was probably received by many other kids in the same district, and in surrounding districts.
Slay a dragon... over lunch!
I do think it reduces the significance of the crime.
The hacking methods they used were not something the suppliers of the system could not have stopped. They left some easily exploitable holes in there whereas they shouldn't have. They also continued to use that very same password on most systems, even on "fixed" compromised laptops and even after pretty much everybody knew about it.
I do think they should be punished for their deeds (which they are), it is however no excuse for the gross negligence of the system admins, who basically did next to nothing to prevent, or indeed assist in, hacking. They should have expected children (yes, children; who cannot enter legal contract because they are not considered responsible enough) to play with the toys they are given. They gave these children a half-working toy and pretty much told them "do not try to play with the other half, even though it's a lot more fun" and ignorantly expected them to comply.
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Yes, I know - it seems to be the popular thing to do to "make examples" out of people. "Send a message" blah blah. I am sorry, I don't think it's appropriate to do that with children. To (potentially) mess up a child's life just so that you can "send a message" should be a crime in itself.
You also seem to believe that this was the plan all along. Give them a good scare, then end up giving them 15 hours of community service. Yeah right. I am sure the worldwide media attention this case received had plenty to do with the appropriate punishment they did end up getting (as opposed to the ridiculous crime they were charged with). Call me cynical, but I don't believe it was the plan at all. It just ended up to be the only way out the authorities got themselves into without sounding like they completely caved in to the negative media attention.
And lastly, I have a problem with you comparing this case with dangerous driving. Speeding and moving into the incoming traffic has real physical, possibly deadly, dangers to you and to others on the road. Need I say more, really? changing the admin password on the computer they carry with them all day long so that they can browse the net without the filter, or the damage-less little prank they played with a teacher is totally benign, and the punishment needed to fit the "crime". But really, what should happen is getting these policies that made such an infractions a crime to begin with re-examined.
However after all of that came to an end, I was still treated by the school staff as some sort of hacker. Many openly expressed their distrust of me around their computers. Whenever ANYTHING ever went wrong with the computer system I was the first person they blamed. Now I was also the one they always turned to for a fix to their problem. Still I had to put up with all that grief just because my parents elected to take the deal.
Moral of the story, if you're innocent then don't agree to any deal where blame can still be associated with you. If you're innocent then make damned certani everyone knows it.
I'm sorry. I'm very sorry that your network security is a disgrace.
I'm sorry that your network admin staff is completely braindead.
I'm sorry that the ADMIN passwords were taped to the back of the laptops by what must have been the single most stupid person on the planet.
I'm sorry that likely the only thing anyone learned out of this is that 13 kids "broke in to the schools computers".
I'm sorry that noone will ever think to FIRE the dumbass who taped the passwords to the back of the computers.
I'm sorry that I had to write this.
Sit... Speak.... Shake.... Good Dog!
Felonies are meant to be serious crimes like "aggravated assault, arson, burglary, murder, and rape" and not minor infractions like what the "Kutztown 13" possibly did. Almost 95% of felony charges result in a guilty conviction via a plea agreement. It's rather disgusting.
IMO the only reason the "Kutztown 13" got off without a conviction is because of the multitude of complaints generated by the Internet and not out of any "common sense" of any prosecutor. The criminal justice in the US is like a giant meat grinder where the innocent and guilty get ground up together and spit out the other end. "Justice" is rarely a factor.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
Considering that they were charged with a felony for what essentially amounts to youthful mischief, I'd say that the significance of the crime is pretty minor relative to what they were charged with. No person or property was damaged in any way.
Yeah -- those kids really do deserve punishment. I'd think that 3 weeks of detention, possibly even in-school suspension would be an appropriate action. I'm still baffled by how this all adds up to a felony charge. The students didn't break anything, they didn't access sensitive data, and they didn't disrupt anything. The fact is that this is a mostly harmless crime. I'd want more severe punishment for the kid who uses a sharpie to tag all over my neighborhood. If these kids were convicted of a felony, it would have ruined their lives. Convicted felons don't tend to get jobs, and often resort to crime as its the only way to make a living. Let's save the felony charges for those who are truly harmful and disruptive.
I hope that maybe some day if you or I ever slip up and are caught commiting a minor or victimless crime, neither of us have to experience heavy handed tactics of making an example of someone.
Oh, and with regards to your mention of the students breaking the "very same law that protects you from having to worry about unauthorized computer access." It does absolutely nothing of the sort. If I didn't worry about unauthorized computer access, I'd be out of a job. Unreasonably stiff penalties do not make the world a safe place.
-Turkey
Let's see...they can't get a credit card, get married, drink alcohol, drive a car (in many states), or live independantly without a lengthy legal emanicpation proceeding. So -- which is it? Are they capable of rational thinking or not? It's a bit of double talk that they have all the responsibilites of an adult, with none of the privileges. Even putting this aside, I still don't think that it makes any sense at all to over react to a minor crime, where there was no personal or property damage. These intentionally heavy-handed tactics of making an example of someone have been used for quite some time, and they don't work. They just destroy lives. In this case, the punishment doesn't fit the crime. IMO, what they did is akin to spitting on the sidewalk.
As far as your black-and-white law and order stuff goes, I have a feeling that you've ever been acquainted with our criminal justice system in any way. Go work in corrections for a while (just about any area), gain a minimally basic understanding of the other side of our criminal justice system. Perhaps with a tiny bit of perspective, you will have a difficult time spouting your black-and-white justice BS.
Finally, your earlier example of driving on the centerline at high speed is called reckleess endangerment, and is not a victimless crime. It is a felony. Your analogy makes an inappropriate comparison.
-Turkey
For the sake of discussion, let's turn to cutusabreak.org, a site which proposes to support the students (though I think some of the passages in there actually harm them).
Now all along the computer department was monitoring for these infractions and dozens of students were reprimanded and punished for their curiosity. Detentions and in-school suspensions were handed to kids by their homeroom teachers, often with no face-to-face with the disciplinarians. This was hardly a deterrent, though, as the kids were able to take their laptops and play video games during their "punishment."
They were handing out the sorts of punishments you suggested. Perhaps not for the length of time you suggest, but it's not like they just saw a problem and said, "FELONY!"
Some laptops were temporarily confiscated for long enough to have them cleansed and returned to their original configuration with a new password. Yet the laptops were still not secure. On several occasions the laptops were returned with the old password still intact. And then the kids learned how to turn off and or limit the administration's ability to spy on what they were doing on their laptops.
Here we see that the students must have known that what they were doing was not authorized. The notebooks were confiscated long enough to undo the damage and change the admin password. From this point on, the students who had their laptop's password changed had to actively seek out a way to get admin access again. There is no way they didn't know, at this point, that what they were doing was "wrong".
Now, you suggest that these children, if convicted of felonies, would have their lives totally destroyed. In many states (including Penn.) this is not the case. A person may request that their juvenile record be expunged, under certain situations: ahref=http://www.jlc.org/home/mediacenter/factshee ts/FAQPAJJ.html%23exprel=url2html-4701http://www.j lc.org/home/mediacenter/factsheets/FAQPAJJ.html#ex p>
Now, many people are going to come back and say that the school screwed up, too. They did. I'll even provide a few examples up front.
1) They only targetted 13 kids. I have no idea whether these 13 had cracked the password after it was changed. For the sake of argument, I'm going to assume they did (if they did not, the school was definitely way out of line).
2) They failed to notify the parents, either of the offenses themselves or of the severity of the offenses.
3) They allowed the use of the laptops during detention, and had no contingency for removing a student from the program. I suspect that there is more to the story than "Some kids who had trouble resisting temptation tried to turn in their laptops and were forced by the administration to take them back." but for the sake of argument, we'll take that as accurate.
4) They monitored student activity in the first place. I do think that there is a reasonable level of monitoring that can occur when leasing or loaning out hardware, especially if notification of the monitoring is given up front (which it was, in this case, to the student but not the parent, apparently). But I still don't particularly like it, and there are distinct privacy implications considering these were minors.
5) They didn't secure the computers properly.
The only one of the above which reduces the culpability of the students is #3. If the student was actually trying to get rid of the temptation by getting rid of the program, they should have allowed that. Of course, we don't know if any of the 13 tried to give up the laptops, which would make the point moot.
And for the record, I agree with you on making an example of people. I think it's inappropriate and a mockery of the jusice^Wlegal system. But, rather than not prosecuting any of the kids, they should have prosecuted all of t