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How Much Money do Programmers Really Make?
bigman2003 asks: "ADTmag.com recently released a list of average salaries for IT workers. Usually when I see these lists, I find out that I am grossly below the average salary. But this time I was very surprised to see that I am actually above the average! This is partly because of a recent raise, but it is also because the numbers quoted in this survey are lower than what I've seen the past from other surveys. This report quotes about $56,000 for the average application developer. I am a web developer (sure, laugh all you want) and I wanted to know specifically: How much are other web developers were making? And- How many hours a week does it take you to make it?"
Aerospace engineer. Spend 80% of my time programming simulations in C++. Fresh out of college make in excess of 50,000 plus much better than average benefits.
I was promoted and promoted, given many salary raises above and beyond, and many bonuses for work above and beyond. While I never asked for my six-figure salary, it was nice to have cuz I didn't have to worry much about financial woes.
Then a small company merged with ours, essentially swaggered in, a (allegedly) corrupt CEO (allegedly) cooked the books, or (allegedly) ordered them cooked, we went $35B in debt, our stock went from $54 to $2 (yes, 1/27th!), and the security unraveled.
No problem, that salary would come in handy now... until some British chick came in, one week on a conference call told us all to get approval before ordering office supplies and in a month or so we would look at our financial "situation".
Two weeks later 1/5 of us did the perp walk... Lost my job, lost the chance to finish the 3 years to full pension (after 21 years with this company). And, finally finding out not many companies want to interview someone that old, or making that much money... Doesn't matter what you've done, doesn't matter how good you are, if you can't even get the interview, salaries you made are only relevant in one way. Bitter? Yeah. Get over it? Yeah, but it's not easy.
A blessing in disguise, I'm now a completely independent software developer and stand to make more than I ever did working for d'man. But a lesson learned. Don't consider your salary in and of itself. Consider the ethics and environment of the company that may screw you (my sense is there aren't many out there anymore that won't.)
I found a cost of living calculator at Salary.com the other day, because I'm looking at moving within a year or two. I currently make a base salary of ~$55,000 as a web developer in Dallas, Texas. Here are some numbers of approximately what I would need to make in various cities across the U.S to be at the same level:
As expected, the cost of living is higher in the big cities, especially in California and New York State. Anyway, I hope this was helpful. The link is below if you want to try it yourself.
http://swz.salary.com/CostOfLivingWizard/layoutscr ipts/coll_start.asp
Grammar Lesson: you're is a contraction of "you are"; your means you possess something; yore means days gone by.
I think the real issue here is that people like to know how they rank compared to others, and reality is way to gray for that black & white approach.
While true, this reminds me of that study they did recently where they showed that peoples' happiness was more based on relative income than absolute income. Though it should be job satisfaction and the other things you mentioned that really count.
May 2004 Metropolitan Area Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates, from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Find your city, find your occupation.
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oessrcma.htm
Applicable Occupations:
15-1021 Computer Programmers
15-1031 Computer Software Engineers, Applications
15-1032 Computer Software Engineers, Systems Software
15-1041 Computer Support Specialists
15-1051 Computer Systems Analysts
15-1061 Database Administrators
15-1071 Network and Computer Systems Administrators
15-1081 Network Systems and Data Communications Analysts
Janis Joplin once sang, "'Freedom' is just another word for 'nothing left to lose'". While this is true to some extent, I think that more aptly applies to not being a slave to consumer culture.
In any event, 'freedom' for my family and I means owning our home and reducing our monetary needs to the bare minimum.
That means getting out of debt and staying out of debt. I'm only 33, and have dealt with debt. I cannot stress to you younger folks enough how evil debt is. The only thing you should have debt on is a house and maybe a vehicle.
Own your assets outright, or aim for that as aggressively as possible.
Home owenership has been the best thing for our family. We bought our first home for $85k, and sold it for $115k. Sure, we probably paid $50k in interest during the 5 years we owned it, but that is deductible. Only some states allow rent deductions, and the Fed does not. When we sold, we paid off a number of debts. We then bought a home for $45k (we put $10k down) and are getting ready to sell for $60k. So we'll take that $20k or so in equity and roll that into our next house, which will be in the $50k-to-$75k range. The plan is to pay that down quickly and own it outright in 5 years -- then rent it and move into another similarly-priced home, or perhaps a duplex, then pay that off. Given the rental market, I could "retire" at the ripe age of 43, never having to lift a finger while bringing in at least $2k/month. My family of 4 can easily live very comfortably on that.
Going against conventional wisdom, when I quit my last job, I liquidated my retirement fund (403b, I think, with all proceeds being contributed by my employer). I got dinged on the taxes, but I used that pay off our "retirement" property. If the shit ever hits the fan, my family has a place to go. I also bought and sold a parcel that's paying for itself in a rapidly growing market. While I still owe on it, my buyer is essentially making the payments for me. I netted a few grand (more on potential interest), and the current market is such that if he flakes I'll own a prime piece of development property in an area that's expanding by leaps and bounds.
I've never made an exceptional salary, the peak being $53k and currently at $45k, in a modest employment market. So that should tell you that most anyone can prepare their future on a modest salary if they desire to do so.
While compound interest is a great tool for many people's retirement plans, ownership of land and houses is more secure in my opinion. At the least, you'll have a roof over your head for nothing (excepting taxes), and at best you'll have a passive income. Plus you'll have an assett that you can sell for a large (possibly tax-free) chunk of change, if you need a large wad of cash.
No, it's not about status or knowing who I am. I've never owned a home newer than 90 years, or a car newer than 5 years. I currently own a beat-up '91 sedan, that gets decent fuel economy and results in the smallest tax liability (12 years or older in my state). It's about having assetts at my disposal, and having them work for me.
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