Microsoft Aims for Hack-Proof 360

jondaw writes "The BBC is reporting that "Microsoft plans to make its next generation games console, the Xbox 360, as difficult as possible to hack...There are going to be levels of security in this box that the hacker community has never seen before...I'm sure sooner or later someone will work out how to circumvent security. But the way we have done the design doesn't mean that it will work on somebody else's machine.""

Comments

Misleading

[Anonymous Coward]

They aren't trying to make it "Hack Proof" just difficult to hack. That headline will have worthless forum threads going for days...

hack-proof != difficult to hack

[lysander]

Article: Microsoft plans to make its next generation games console, the Xbox 360, as difficult as possible to hack
Headline: Microsoft Aims for Hack-Proof 360

I would like to think that slashdot would be a place where people (e.g. editors) would know the difference between these two statements.

As a wise man once said to me :

[LePrince]

"If something was done by a man, another man can undo it". Still holds true, IMHO.

I think people underestimate the challenge

[EnglishTim]

There seems to be this attitude that a crack will inevitably come out fairly quickly.

I don't think that's the case.

I think many slashdotters are overly confident just because the original Xbox got hacked and we've manage to hack CSS, but you've got to remember a couple of things: Firstly, the original Xbox was the first hardware of that type that Microsoft had created. They put in some protection but it wasn't good enough. I'm sure they have learnt from their mistakes and it will be considerably more difficult to crack this time around. Secondly, with CSS it took quite a long time to get a crack and that was due (IIRC) to a CSS licensor screwing up and leaving the key unprotected in the firmware.

Now, it's possible that Microsoft have screwed up again, but it's by no means a sure thing.

Re:I think people underestimate the challenge

[arkanes]

It's not just overconfidence, it's basic information theory. All the components for cracking the XBox are present in the XBox itself.

CSS was broken very quickly by extracting a valid key from a player. Note that this is not a "cheat" - this is a fundamental hole in this sort of DRM. The key is and must be present to play the DVD, and with the key present it can be extracted.

However, DeCSS does not rely on extracting a key - it's an algorithmic attack on CSS itself.

Re:I think people underestimate the challenge

[einTier]

I used to think everything was crackable. And, to a certain extent, I still believe that, though I realize now that not everything will be hacked.

DirecTV had their orginal F cards hacked, then their H cards, then their HU cards. And that's as far as it went. The new P4 and P5 cards are still encrypted and secure. In my mind, it shouldn't be all that hard to intercept calls through the box and figure out how to write to the card -- but then again, more talented hackers than me have tried and failed, so what do I know?

The second generation of secure big-dish satellite recievers is yet to be hacked as well, despite the fact that it's been over a decade and the first generation boxes were hacked nine ways to Sunday.

Hacking never got anyone anywhere, right?

[truthsearch]

Yeah, cause hacking never resulted in the creation of any large software companies... Microsoft thinks there's no way to profit from hobbyists. How was it their company got started again?

Re:Amount of work in design

[Iriel]

I have to agree with another reply that this is simply an open invitation taunting every hacker to crack the 360 ASAP. Besides, there's going to be a problem, as with all hackery, that Microsoft, however large their development team is, has to design something that can withstand the combined efforts of at least an entire country of would-be 360 hackers.

The numbers don't look too good for Microsoft on this one.

Re:Why?

[marcus]

That might have been a good reason for the Xbox to be made hack proof, but not the 360. Unless I have mis-remembered something, M$ has opted out of the take-a-loss on the console for market share and volume in order to re-coup on game sales business plan. They intend to profit, or at least take no loss, on the console sales. Thus the appreciably higher prices and different levels of factory installed features.

The same hackability is still an attractive feature. Having one GP box that can play DVDs, surf IMDB and weather sites, play tunes and vids from my home file server, play games, etc. without hassling with reconnecting cables and chasing remotes is *very* nice compared to the heat and noise generating, cable tangling mess that is a 'normal' home audio/video/PC/game stack.

Note that I don't especially want to hack it. Instead, I want to use features that are enabled since it has been hacked.

I'm still looking for a box that will do all this and HD. Perhaps a hacked 360 will be it.

Re:Wha? Are they even thinking?

[RoadDoggFL]

As the above reply stated, Xboxes cost more to manufacture and distribute (I'm assuming that's factored into the "sold at a loss" claim) than they're sold for. So every Xbox bought up by "all the buisnesses that were buying Xboxes and turning them into linux servers/clusters back when the first box was hacked" had to be replaced on the shelves by another Xbox that cost more than MS made from it,

Why on earth doesn't Microsoft want a "piece of the pie"?