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Titan Occupies A Solar System Sweet Spot
SocietyoftheFist writes "From an article on the BBC website, scientists have determined that Titan occupies a 'sweet spot' much like Earth. Venus is the same size as Earth but too hot so water boiled off long ago ending most geologic processes. Mars is too small to generate enough heat to keep water from freezing so it too slowed down geologically. Titan is much like the Earth with winds, rains and tectonic forces but instead of water it has an abundance of methane. Methane is liquid at the temperatures found in Titan's atmosphere and replaces water in the equation."
What I don't get is how is this considered the sweet spot?
Its not oxygen, its not water, its not livable, its not breathable, and I'm sure as hell that the temperature's not close to tolerable.
A fundamental issue, as I understamd it, is the speed of chemical reactions. Roughly speaking, chemical process speeds are related exponentially to temperature. Generally speaking, the temperatures on Titan are far to low to permit life processes anything like the sort we see on Earth. That isn't a definite "no", but any life forms would have to be radically different from anything on Earth.
If there are two planets capable for sustaining life (well, one is. I don't know about Earth), how many are there in the entire universe?
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I just don't understand where scientists think that it would be possible to live on one of these moons. From the article,
"But David Grinspoon of the Southwest Research Institute says organisms could occupy specific niches, such as hot springs. They could use acetylene, in reaction with hydrogen gas, to release enough energy to power metabolism, and possibly to heat their environments. "
I just don't see this happening. The reason that earth can be heated is because of the sun. When you stand outside you can feel the heat that is generated from the sun. The earth also had a hot core but that isn't near enough to keep it heated. Plus the fact that the hot spots on Titan that are generated by its own core, are going to be tiny. You are not going to be able to eat or drink as there is no resource for food. These scientists really have big dreams. They make this stuff out to be like a real fairy tale... Its nice to know some things about the planet but when they try to convince themselves that it is habitable then it just gets a little silly.
But it still remains very interesting to study. All these problems you propose are valid, but the chemistry at those places could still be very complex, and the thing with life is, once it has started its' complexity will rise with the next generations.
Our experience life is, let's face it, laughable. We only have one genesis to work with. The premise of liquid water is solely based on Earth observations. I don't know about you, but at least I don't know about any holiday resort on Earth next to a liquid methane lake. there just aren't any.
If I hear about an energy source, complex carbon-based chemicals and a liquid to mix them, then, with an open mind, I think some emerging intelligence may occur after billions of years. Even if it is a freak accident, if you believe a complex system can exist for even a few hundred millions of years without one freak accident, then you're obviously not an engineer. Maybe it will not be life as we know it, but damnit Jim, it will be alive!
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Has anyone considered that maybe Earth is just the most Titan-like place in the Solar System other than Titan?
Oh it doesn't? Do you have a counter-example of life for us to look at that isn't carbon based, and mostly water and oxygen breathing? (well, trees breathe CO2 for the carbon content, but trees need oxidants too).
If so, please contact someone in the scientific community immediately.
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not all life has to be carbon-based, mostly water, and oxygen-breathing.
That is true, but you also have to take into account the fact that solid water (ice) is less dense then liquid water. We take it for granted, but think about how it affects our planet. The bottom of the ocean is not solid like the bottom of a methane ocean. They are liquid and at a controlled temperature (4 degrees celcius). How much of a role does this little oddity of water play into our planet's evolution?
The previous comment is purposely vague and generalized, but all of the facts are completely true.
there is one train of thought that life is actually a cosmic imperitive so to speak. in that if it's even remotely possible, then life will occur. the reasoning behind this is that we can find life in boiling springs, frozen rocks and many km's under the sea in total darkness. if life can survive in such conditions, then maybe it's not some rare fragile occurance, but a force in the universe which is just begging to happen anywhere possible.
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Sometimes I've wondered what would happen if we could (magically) replace our moon with Titan. It's larger than the moon so tidal effects and animal life here on earth will be affected of course, but what would happen to Titan's atmosphere? Huge greenhouse effect?
Europa would be an interesting candidate too... but maybe this sort of speculation belongs in the 'Who would win: Skeletor vs Dr.Doom' category.
The Chair Corp. comic(*00-12)
"Yes, its true that a smaller planet will retain less heat,"
We don't just retain heat, we generate heat. Otherwise the earth's core would have solidified a long time ago, and we'd be very irradiated.
If a smaller planet were in earth's orbit, it might not generate enough heat on its own to thaw out of an ice age.
Published November 1, 1998.
I remember hearing about the "Columbia Disaster" and thinking damn...Baxter's gotta be shitting his pants today...
Folks, Vonnegut is "Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.", the referenced work is "The Sirens of Titan", and the "ice-nine" reference is from another book: "Cat's Cradle".
In "The Sirens of Titan" (been years since I read it, so I'll try my best), one of Vonnegut's earliest works, much is made of the notion that Titan enjoyed conditions similar to Earth's as the article states, and so some of the action takes place on Titan, which is predicted to be where the book's protagonist, Rumford, is going to die. If I'm not hallucinating, quite a bit takes place on Mars, as well, involving a massive militray operation and some of the most insanely infectious rhyming ditties ever written. And I remember something about a wild party with a piano pushed into a swimming pool, beautiful creatures called harmoniums, flying saucers, chrono-synclastic infundibulum, and the repeated theme-invoking line "Somebody up there must like you!" Vonnegut students will recognise many of the elements of his life's work born in this novel.
Sheesh, I miss that book, now. I'm going to have to dig it up again.
Surprisingly, I think there is quite a lot. Most of the minerals that make up Earth's crust contain water, and water, under pressure is drawn down into the crust at spreading faults. Also the carbonate minerals would not exist without long-lasting oceans where CO2 and silicate rocks can slowly combine. These hydrated and carbonate minerals act, I think as a lubricant to plate movements. I am not a geologist, but I'm sure I read this somewhere once. I can't quickly find confirmation.