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Canada's Do-Not-Hesitate-To-Call List
An anonymous reader writes "The creation of a do-not-call list in Canada has run into
trouble. Michael Geist reports that the proposal has been effectively destroyed, with exceptions for just about every telemarketer including businesses, political parties, polling companies, and charities. The government committee apparently heard from the marketers but refused to listen to consumer groups."
...to test out the anti-telemarketing counterscript ;-)
People say I'm crazy, I got diamonds on the soles of my shoes...
You think maybe that didn't work out because business lines are exempt?
Are you sure your business numbers are really on the list? I'd suggest resubmitting the numbers, and if the calls don't stop (20-50 a day?!?!?) file complaints and demand compensation.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
It appears (from Google's cache) that his article was just summarizing this Toronto Star article.
Tired of junk phone calls? Call Industry Minister now
MICHAEL GEIST
In a scene that unfolds in millions of homes each day, dinner is interrupted by an unsolicited telemarketing call. Some Canadians immediately hang up, while others wait patiently for the marketer's speech to conclude. No matter the response, virtually everyone finds the calls invasive, disruptive, time-consuming, and incredibly annoying.
Several years ago, the United States introduced legislation designed to curb unwanted telemarketing calls. A statutory "do not call" list was created allowing individuals to place their phone number on a list that, with limited exceptions, marketers were forbidden from calling. Since failure to abide by the wishes of those listed carries significant penalties, the U.S. approach has proven remarkably successful with more than 90 million numbers now registered.
Having observed the U.S. system with envy, Ottawa's introduction last December of Bill C-37, which creates a Canadian do-not-call list, drew near-universal praise -- even the Canadian Marketing Association welcomed the bill.
The bill established the broad framework necessary for a do-not-call list, including the statutory powers needed to create the list and penalties for non-compliance. The Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, Canada's telecom regulator, was asked to develop the specific details in a public consultation once the bill became law.
Following its introduction, Bill C-37 was referred to the Standing Committee on Industry, Natural Resources, Science and Technology for review. Months later, the amended bill is virtually unrecognizable, as intense lobbying has transformed the do-not-call list into the do-not-hesitate-to-call list.
Rather than leaving the specific exemptions to an open public consultation, the committee introduced several changes to the bill that dramatically reduces its effectiveness. These include exceptions for charities, political parties, polling companies, and businesses with existing business relationships. While it may come as little surprise to find politicians protecting their own ability to make unsolicited telemarketing calls, the inclusion of the existing business relationship exception is particularly damaging as it renders the do-not-call list practically useless.
The existing business relationship provision will allow businesses to contact former customers for up to a year and a half after their last communication or contract (notwithstanding the inclusion of their phone number on the do-not-call list). Moreover, even a simple inquiry will give businesses a six-month window to ignore the presence of the number on the do-not-call list.
It is readily apparent that the avalanche of nightly calls is likely to continue unabated
Canadians may register their phone numbers on the do-not-call list, but it is readily apparent that the avalanche of nightly calls is likely to continue unabated. For example, under the revised rules, if you spend one night in a hotel, the hotel chain can call you for the next 18 months, even if you register your phone number on the do-not-call list. Similarly, if you call a long-distance provider for information about their latest plan, they can call you for the next six months. All of this is in addition to the blanket exception for charitable calls, calls from political parties, and polling company calls seeking participation in surveys.
Supporters of the do-not-hesitate-to-call list argue that the Canadian exceptions mirror those found in the U.S. Although it is true that the U.S. has created some similar exceptions, the Canadian exceptions go much further than their U.S counterparts. For instance, the exception period for a mere inquiry is twice as long in Canada as it is in the U.S.
Moreover, supporters of the amended proposal note that telemarketers will be required to maintain company-specific internal do-not-call lists so Canadians can request no further phone calls on an individual company basi
You're kidding? Our phones are now silent. And I report every violation that calls in (had one yesterday for the first time in months). We used to get telemarketer calls several times a week (at least).
I have a business line, too, and it hasn't gotten any telemarketing calls that I can remember...
So out of curiosity, why aren't you pursuing your $500/call DNC violation penalty.
I've not had a single telemarketing call since the DNC, and was averaging three per day before it, so for me it has been a great success.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
Actually, I think the list aplies to home numbers only. Read below, taken from www.donotcall.gov:
The National Do Not Call Registry gives you a choice about whether to receive telemarketing calls at home
Note, the "at home" portion.
That said, I've had two number since the registry began. Both home numbers have had a decrease in the number of calls. The only place that ever called was a political campaign and the local firehouse. Both which, I believe, are legally allowed to do so. Other than that, the thing works great at home!
I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
Thats because Business' do not apply to the DNCR. Telemarketers can still call a business. The DNCR is there to protect personal numbers. It seems to work well for me. I only receive one telemarketing call in the past year or so and it was from a company that I purchase from in the past.
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
Well, that is pretty funny.
See, the DO NOT CALL list is only for People. Residnences, as it were. Businesses are not allowed on the Do Not Call list. Anyone, at any time, is allowed to call a business. If you look at their site (donotcall.gov) you will see it says "home or mobile phone". Not Business phone. Not sure where the rules of the registery are (I called the FTC and asked about this a couple of months ago). So well, a home phone, or cell phone should be easily registered, and if somone calls anyhow, complain, and they can pick up a nasty fine.
But your business, or bosses business. Meh. Not much he can do.
he doesn't have that right... it's a business line.. so they can call as much as they like.
Help me take back Slashdot. When did 'News for Nerds' become 'FUD and Conspiracy Theories for Extremist Nutjobs'?
In principle, the do-not-call registry sounds like a great idea.
However, telephone solicitation is very important to business, to charities, and to political organizations. How do we balance their needs with citizens' wants?
I think it's very important that political groups especially are allowed to reach out to people in the community. Unfortunately, most people here in the US are ridiculously undereducated about political issues. What I'd like to see is a proscription against soliciting over the phone, so that information could still be passed along.
This would help reduce how much certain subsets of the population are taken advantage of by telemarketers.
It's not that hard to hang up the phone, or to screen calls. I've set my phone to ring silently if the call is from someone not in my caller ID. I erase telemarketer numbers every couple days.
At this point, at least here in the US, I am very against any action that would limit political participation -- it's low enough already. Polling and grassroots campaigning are vital to how our political system operates today, and should not be abrogated.
However, I think any individual should have the ability to deny a specific organiztion the right to contact them. If the NRA contacts me, I only want to tell them once to go to hell. Instead, I find myself telling them weekly.
What I've got to do now is advise them I am recording the call, and record myself telling them not to ever call me again -- both the NRA and the telemarketing firm doing the calling. Then follow up with a fax repeating my instructions.
Then, when they call again, record that conversation also. Write them a letter stating that I will take them to court unless they wish to settle for, say, $250. I bet they'd settle, since lawyers are too expensive.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
I've read accounts of people making thousands by bleeding the beast in this manner.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
AC is right. Business numbers can be placed on the list, but they are not enforceable.
Also, I bet that as an ISP, you deal with companies who are affiliated with other companies, and can try to use the loophole for existing business relationships -- if they have any sort of business relationship to you, or you've ever called or contacted them, then they can market to you unless you explicitly tell them to only call you on existing business.
Procrastination -- because good things come to those who wait.
No, I hadn't realized it when I posted but as you say, it's home numbers only.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Read the FAQ at donotcall.gov:
t .htm
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/dncalr
Specifically, point # 14 clearly states that busines to business calls are not protected.
Would you like to back that claim up, or are you just repeating the often-debunked urban legend?
The posting's misleading, unfortunately, like so many on Slashdot lately.
The proposed bill does not grant an exception to the do-not-call list to all businesses; it grants an exception to businesses that have an *existing* business relationship with you. Still not good, but a random telemarketer won't be allowed to call you if you're not already a customer one way or another.
Michael's article is quite clear in this regard, too. I really wish the Slashdot editors would check submissions for factual accuracy instead of blindly accepting any sensationalist story - Slashdot really seems to be becoming the tabloid news outlet of the internet, which is rather unfortunate.
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
The proposed bill does not grant an exception to the do-not-call list to all businesses; it grants an exception to businesses that have an *existing* business relationship with you. Still not good, but a random telemarketer won't be allowed to call you if you're not already a customer one way or another.
So, let's just examine CIBC for example. Let's say Joe Canuck has a checking account with them. Now he has a relationship with them.
Ah, so only they will phone, right?
Wrong. Now CIBC can call you, anyone in their umbrella corporation can call you about:
- insurance
- trips to Barbados
- Cuban cigars
- investing in mining stock in Brazil
- buying a timeshare in Guadaloupe
When you do business with one firm, you are doing business with ALL the firms that corporation owns, under the definitions.
And that, my friend, is just plain wrong. It should be opt-in.
If I have a telephone in BC, then I have no choice but to have their corporation get my permission for all their "corporations" to phone me. When I have a checking account or a credit card, that's hundreds of corporations that can now phone me.
To you it's a small door.
To me, it's hundreds of doors that I didn't even know about existing in the first place.
Now, mind you, I'm basing this on my Business Management degree from Capilano College and some law courses I took in high school in B.C., but I doubt it's changed that much.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Oh, for fuck's sakes. Americans get just as many bullshit cases like that then we do. That's why there is a -justice- system. This will be analyzed and thrown out due to human rights issues and previous case history.
Before you claim the following:
but at least we still have freedom of religion and speech, unlike Canada
Read our fucking Bill of Rights:
PART I BILL OF RIGHTS
Recognition and declaration of rights and freedoms
1. It is hereby recognized and declared that in Canada there have existed and shall continue to exist without discrimination by reason of race, national origin, colour, religion or sex, the following human rights and fundamental freedoms, namely,
(a) the right of the individual to life, liberty, security of the person and enjoyment of property, and the right not to be deprived thereof except by due process of law;
(b) the right of the individual to equality before the law and the protection of the law;
(c) freedom of religion;
(d) freedom of speech;
(e) freedom of assembly and association; and
(f) freedom of the press.
I'm sorry, but you obviously didn't read the article. These are the OPPOSITION's amendments (the opposition being your beloved CONSERVATIVES) who want to protect their buddies in big business.
The government (i.e. liberal) amendment is to allow the person with the telephone number to say they want to exempt charities when they put themselves on the list. That's more reasonable, obviously.
Don't bother putting your foot in your mouth. We forgive you for your ignorance. You're obviously practicing to be an American.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
I have heard a lot of people combat telemarketers by feigning interest in the product or service and then asking the caller to hold while they get a pen and paper. Then they set the phone down and never come back on the line.
My sister used to work as a telemarketer. She told me that she LOVED these calls. The productivity software at the service bureau shows her as working a call. In actuality, she used the time to read, chat with friends, etc.
At the end of the day, she was credited for keeping a customer on the phone for 20 minutes.
While the workers may enjoy these calls it might still make sense as a way to hurt the companies bottom line.
A perfectly useful method if you, first, have a mobile, and second, live in a place that allows companies to charge half a pound a minute to call mobiles.
Here in North America, it costs per-minute charges to recieve calls on your mobile, but costs nothing per minute to call a mobile from a landline, so calling a mobile isn't a deterrent to making a call, and it's much cheaper to take calls on a landline
If I call someone up on their mobile from my landline and talk to them for ten straight hours, I'm charged $0.07 total, that being the per-call flat fee on my current landline plan. They get charged 600 mobile minutes. If instead they'd answered my call on their landline, the ten hours of talk would have cost them nothing and me seven cents.
Behold: the Telecrapper.
Your design to a real part online: Big Blue Saw
(Telemarketers gained this "right" on the grounds that they might make sales calls from private phones and wanted to have customers redirected to their main offices. Yeah, right. The real reason is to bypass Caller ID screening.)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
The Canadian Marketing Association has a Do Not Contact service for both mail and telemarketing. I signed up when I moved, and I never get junk mail, and rarely get calls from telemarketers.
I get occasional telemarketing calls from Bell Canada and Rogers Cable but I'm an existing client. Rogers hires the worst, most aggressive call centers to peddle their internet service. The last guy to call me just needed me to say my name to sign up. After refusing the service a few times, he tried to get me signed up by saying my name and asking me if that was my name.