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Is the iPod Generation Going Deaf?

prozac79 writes "Ars Technica and Wired News are both running interesting articles on how personal music players are a major contributor [ArsTechnica] to early hearing loss [Wired]. According the ArsTechnica article, an increasing number of people are now living in "noisy" environments that is only made worse by blocking it out with even louder music. The article also suggests that listening to music for one hour a day is considered safe. So now you have a choice... go deaf early or go insane listening to your coworkers chatter."

20 of 632 comments (clear)

  1. What about Bose Headphones? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have a pair of Bose Quietcomfort headphones, and I wonder if the noise cancelling is actually damaging my hearing. What do you think?

    1. Re:What about Bose Headphones? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      What did you say?

    2. Re:What about Bose Headphones? by afidel · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'll make the typical audiophile quip: If you like the sound of Bose you have nothing to worry about, you're already deaf =)

      --
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    3. Re:What about Bose Headphones? by /ASCII · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Since the headphones actually reduce the amount of sound, the are not damaging your hearing.

      On the other hand, since noise cancelling only works on low to mid frequency noise, and hearing loss is caused by high frequency sound, they aren't helping either.

      On the third hand, if you are using noise cancelling to allow you to listen to music at a lower volume in a noisy environment, then they might actually help out a bit.

      --
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  2. 1985 by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is the Walkman Generation Going Deaf?

    US News and World Report and Newsweek are both running interesting articles on how personal tape players are a major contributor [US News] to early hearing loss [Newsweek]. According the US News article, an increasing number of people are now living in "noisy" environments that is only made worse by blocking it out with even louder music. The article also suggests that listening to music for one hour a day is considered safe. So now you have a choice... go deaf early or go insane listening to your coworkers chatter."

    Nothing new hear, we've been getting this since at least 1980. There are likely stories about how the photograph, motion picture "talkie", transister radio and lord knows whatelse cause problems.

    1. Re:1985 by Nutria · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nothing new hear, we've been getting this since at least 1980.

      I am hard of hearing, and I lay the blame squarely on myself for, in the late 70s/early 80s, slapping on headphones and cranking up the volume.

      My parents warned me, but of course I didn't pay attention...

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    2. Re:1985 by EtherealStrife · · Score: 5, Informative
      Ditto. I can second the suggestion. I'm in my 20's and I already have permanent -- and uncorrectable -- hearing damage. You can't imagine how frustrating it is walking around 24/7 with a constant background static buzzing away...until you have it yourself. And when I'm surrounded by complete silence (soundproof rooms/studios) the sound is emphasized, and becomes deafening. And since it's sensory damage, white noise doesn't do squat.

      They may look lame or uncool, but the alternative to wearing earplugs is much much worse.

    3. Re:1985 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      "Similarly, once I started jamming in a band earlier this year, I got fed up with the tinnitus and general fatigue induced by the drummer's brass, and quickly picked up a pair of Elacin ER-20 plugs"

      Beyond just passive plugs, have you thought about picking up honest to god in ear monitors?

      They take a little getting use to, but they work pretty well. The last band I was working with was a grammy nominated r&b group and with a dozen people on stage with brass and other instrumentation, it was as loud as any death metal band I'd ever worked with. Anywho, I started taking a pair of Shure in-ears with me and having the monitor guy give me a nice custom mix to my remote and this meant not only did I have near isolation, but I only needed to hear enough to keep my parts in line.

      A good pair of in-ears will isolate everything enough that you can listen at a much lower volume than you would have normally (this is especially true if you get the earpieces custom molded to further isolate). I prefer the Shure's, but there are a few others that are professional range and work for these applications.

      Anywho, posting this anonymously because slashdot don't like anyone that has made money through RIAA means and it would taint my future posts as a geek :-) If you have any questions about these, ask and I'll try to respond back though.

  3. Hello, Mcfly! by Glendale2x · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Uhm... yes? If I can hear the music clearly from your earbuds across the room, your "coolness factor" (apparently consisting of making sure everyone can hear your really loud rap music) will not prevent hearing damage. I say let 'em. Common sense will prevail for the rest of us.

    --
    this is my sig
    1. Re:Hello, Mcfly! by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 5, Funny

      I say let 'em. Common sense will prevail for the rest of us.

      Problem: if stupid people go deaf the rest of us will have to listen to them shouting their inane conversations at each other.

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
    2. Re:Hello, Mcfly! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Funny
      I have no desire to be "that guy/girl"

      I think you might have more serious things to worry about than your iPod volume...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  4. Is it just music players? by miaDWZ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I find, when walking down the street - that I've got my iPod's volume up to the highest level. It's not because I really like the song, and want to hear it really loudly, but rather, I can't hear it if I turn it down at all. Simply because of the passing traffic is so noisy.

    Had I kept the iPod down to a lower level, say at 0.75 or 0.5 - then I simply wouldn't be able to hear it - so, perhaps the problem is not the music players, but rather, an increase in noise from other locations? For example, traffic?

    Is the world itself getting noisier?

    1. Re:Is it just music players? by labnet · · Score: 5, Informative

      I do sound engineering, and you need to be 6-12dB above ambient noise to hear something clearly. Thus if you are in traffic of 95dB and you headphones cut out say 5dB, you will still need around 100dB. This could be damaging. See the tables below.

      Environmental Noise
      Weakest sound heard 0dB
      Normal conversation (3-5') 60-70dB
      City Traffic (inside car) 85dB
      Train whistle at 500' 90dB
      Subway train at 200' 95dB
      Level at which sustained exposure may result in hearing loss 90 - 95dB
      Power mower 107dB
      Power saw 110dB
      Pain begins 125dB
      Pneumatic riveter at 4' 125dB
      Jet engine at 100' 140dB
      Death of hearing tissue 180dB
      Loudest sound possible 194dB

      OSHA Daily Permissible Noise Level Exposure
      Hours per day Sound level
      8h 90dB
      6h 92dB
      4h 95dB
      3h 97dB
      2h 100dB
      1.5h 102dB
      1h 105dB .5h 110dB .25h 115dB

      Perceptions of Increases in Decibel Level
      Imperceptible Change 1dB
        Barely Perceptible Change 3dB
      Clearly Noticeable Change 5dB
      About Twice as Loud 10dB
      About Four Times as Loud 20dB

      Sound Levels of Music
      Normal piano practice 60 -70dB
      Fortissimo Singer, 3' 70dB
      Chamber music, small auditorium 75 - 85dB
      Piano Fortissimo 84 - 103dB
      Violin 82 - 92dB
      Cello 85 -111dB
      Oboe 95-112dB
      Flute 92 -103dB
      Piccolo 90 -106dB
      Clarinet 85 - 114dB
      French horn 90 - 106dB
      Trombone 85 - 114dB
      Tympani & bass drum 106dB
      Walkman on 5/10 94dB
      Symphonic music peak 120 - 137dB
      Amplifier rock, 4-6' 120dB
      Rock music peak 150dB

      --
      46137
  5. Every generation has it's own disease. by Talondel · · Score: 5, Informative

    Didn't I read this same story about Walkman's 20 years ago? And didn't they decide the effects were negligable? Oh yeah I did. Abstract from a study in 1987: Krahenbuhl D, Arnold W, Fried R, Chuden H. Investigations on 50 high school students showed that this group had been using the "Walkman" only 1.5 h. per day during the last 14 months. A comparison of the audiometric results obtained with these 50 "Walkman" users, with those of 20 age-related non-"Walkman" users, showed no statistically significant differences. The investigation further revealed that to avoid hearing loss, an upper threshold level of 93 dB (A) should not be exceeded for a daily "Walkman" user time of two hours. PMID: 3613781 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

  6. The 80s called ... by Udo+Schmitz · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ... they want their discussion back :)

    Seriously: I was born 1969 and clearly are part of the walkman generation, using one (OK, cheap copycats) from the mid 80s till the early 90s. Then I exposed my ears to techno parties :-P Whenever they check my hearing at the doctor or hospital they are surprised how good I hear considered my age.

    So let me say:

    Bah.

  7. Noise cancelling headphones do work by panurge · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I'm deliberately starting a new top level thread because the previous poster on this is getting negative moderation on some of the replies, and there is then no point in responding to them.

    Noise cancelling headphones if correctly implemented are rather more complex than just inserting an inverted signal. For the record, I am deaf (artillery and large engines, as if you care) and because of the strange hole in my hearing response I use a digital hearing aid. The configuration screen for programming this runs to a number of pages, and I can have it set to include or exclude things like refrigerator and fan noise. In fact, I have one program that does optimised noise cancelling to get the best speech response, and another that does no noise cancelling which is useful for music and for checking that things like HDDs are making the right noises.
    Noise cancelling technology is already used in professional telephone headsets, and I am surprised that it is missing from iPods and the like. It would be easy enough to have a button which switched between cancelling and not cancelling external noise sources and which, like my hearing aid, has a setting which allows through a sudden loud noise when in N/C mode, as a safety factor in traffic. This would mean the ability to listen at lower volume levels in noisy conditions.

    I have a local inductive loopset (one of the few good things to come out of Nokia in my view) which allows me to use the cell phone and to inject another sound source. With the hearing aid switched to inductive pickup only, and to block external sound, I can make a phone call in noisy conditions without difficulty.

    Conclusion: the technology exists to fix these problems and enable people to listen at lower volumes, manufacturers just can't be bothered.

    --
    Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
  8. Solution by Biotech9 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Noise cancelling or isolating headphones.

    Etymotic, Shure and Koss all make noise isolating headphones, which are generally cheaper and have higher quality sound than noise cancelling gimmicks like the Bose headsets.

    Basically, you put in a set of these ear-canal plugs, you hear nothing but the music, and therefore can listen to your music at far lower levels in noisy environments than you would be able to with normal open or closed can style headphones.

    The isolation from the Etymotic ER-4p/s for example, is 44 decibels, which is phenomenal. I own a pair of Er-4ps myself, and have used them a lot while travelling, and have to say that spending 300 euro on a set of headphones does not look like a waste of cash once you get up to 30,000 feet in a packed Airbus.

    The isolation is so complete that it's shocking to hear the noise levels that everyone else is being exposed to once you pull the headphones out after a period of use.

    Not to mention the fantastic sound quality.

  9. Re:Not a binary solution set by Mateito · · Score: 5, Funny

    I find that I can better hear the voices in my head with the iPod turned off.

  10. Re:You can always sniff out a snobby XYZ-phile by asbjxrn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Bose tends to market their products using technobabble that impresses the mainstream consumer, but is absolutely ludicrous to anyone with a modicum of knowledge of acoustics.

    As opposed to "audoiphile" marketers using sciencebabble that impresses the audiophile consumer, but is absolutely ludicrous to anyone with a modicum of knowledge of physics.

  11. I've given this thought recently... by Kaldaien · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have mild hearing damage in my left ear, unrelated to headphones. In my case, it has to do with years of practicing the violin without an earplug in my left ear (which is most vulnerable to damage in violinists).

    Nevertheless, I think the iPod generation is in luck, because they are also one of the first generations where genetic therapy is not purely science fiction. In the past couple of years, researchers discovered that the production of a protein (Rb1) was responsible for the behaviour shared by the inner ear hair cells of all mammals, or more to the point... the reason the hair cells do not divide and hearing does not regenerate. Recently scientists discovered the gene that was responsible for producing this protein in mice. Given 5 to 10 years, I am optimistic the naive iPod generation, senior citizens and even I will be eligible for gene therapy to reverse the effects of hearing loss.

    It is important to protect your hearing, but damage is inevitable no matter how careful you are. Luckily, for musicians and the ignorant iPod generation, there is a glimmer of hope on the horizon :)