Five Ways To Save Video Games

Games.net has an article up with the somewhat dramatic title of Five Ways to Save Video Games. The piece doesn't feel the need to pull any punches. From the article: "#1 Stop Treating Women Like Whores - Sexy is fine. Titillating can be fun. But when you show stupid jiggle-physics and scantily-clad girls cooing and moaning and wriggling, you show yourselves for what you really are: sex-crazed children. And don't think for a minute that the mainstream media doesn't pick up on this. If you can't stop demeaning women (with skimpy outfits and hyper-sexuality) and men (by glamorizing massive musculature and testosterone-dripping masculinity), then get the hell out of the industry."

Comments

Skimpy outfits?

[Jare]

It seems 90% of the world is a sex-crazed children, if advertisments are anything to go by. From cars to perfume to... yeah pretty much anything adheres to the "skimpy outfits + huge muscles" trend. Don't even get me started on movies.

Re:Skimpy outfits?

[Laxitive]

No shit.

I still remember when a friend bought home a case of Bud one day. Oh yes, I remember waking up the next day, feeling strangely bewildered and disoriented when I realized that despite the several cans of shitty beer I'd consumed the night before, I had not received even a single blowjob from hot, giggling college girls.

A rude awakening, that was.. (well, waking up to a vomit-stained bed smelling vaguely reminiscent of that shitty generic beer taste was probably the most rude part).

-Laxitive

Re:Skimpy outfits?

[cloudkiller]

I'm just glad that the very first image was of a nice set of cartoon tubes. Made the whole click thing worth it.

Re:Skimpy outfits?

[ZephyrXero]

Just because crack and herion are big money makers, does that mean we should all sell it? I know it's more of a problem with our apathetic culture than anything else, but it doesn't mean people have to keep contributing to it. There's a time and place for porn, but not every movie/game/ad/whatever should be trying to achieve the same goals. I want to throw up everytime I see those tire commercials with "sexy people" dancing in the rain...What the fuck does that have to do with your tires? lol

I've known lots of women who would refuse to play certain games because of the way the women looked or were treated in a game. If developers just want to aim their games at half the market, I guess we should let them go ahead and shoot themselves in the foot, but if gaming's ever going to become a truely mainstream entertainment medium, we're gonna have to diversify. Sure people say the games industry makes more money than the movie industry, but that's because we charge $50 (and now $60) a pop while a movie ticket is usually below $10 and DVDs are usually about $20.

I guess I'm the only one here who agreed with most of this article? Games may be blowing up right now, but they're about to go completely stale if current trends continue. It's sad when I spend most of my time playing old SNES/Genesis games because there are hardly any decent games coming out today. And these sort of articles aren't going to stop until some change happens.

The only thing I didn't quite agree with is that games shouldn't be as epic/cinematic. As while I do agree with this when it comes to simple platformers and action games, I've yelled out "just hurry up and get to the game" during numerous cinematics for those sort of games, as I'm sure everyone has at some point. But a game like Final Fantasy would blow ass without it's epic story and grandiose cinematics. It should really depend on the game itself whether this is a problem or not, as while he makes it sound like a general one...

Re:Skimpy outfits?

[Sylver Dragon]

One thing to always keep in mind when watching Budweiser commercials. Those clydesdale horses aren't just their mascots, they are their production facility.

1. Horse drinks water
2. Horse expels said water in the normal fashion
3. Anheiser-Busch collects waste water into bottles
4. Bottles chilled and sold as Budweiser "Beer"
5. Profit!!
6. ???
7. People wake up going WTF did I drink last night?

1st point is totally exaggerated...

[Anonymous Coward]

"#1 Stop Treating Women Like Whores"

On the grounds of taste, I'd like to agree, but I don't think it matters overall to gaming's future successes. There are plenty of films and music videos that portray women as sex objects and do well out of it. Here's a great example:
http://www.internetdj.com/watch_video.php?op=watch &mediaid=15089&feature=1

"Saving" Gaming

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, how many articles like this have we seen recently? I don't mind slashdot covering the articles; after all, this is an undeniable trend in gaming journalism of late and deserves to be covered. I do wonder whether the authors of these articles realise just how redundant they're being, though.

What I've noticed is that, whatever language and specific examples are used to dress them up, most of these articles seem to be trying to point in the same direction. In short, they want to "save" the industry by getting it to drop the practices that have been successful at pushing gaming into the mainstream over the last decade.

Seriously, how often lately have we read that games should stop trying to be like movies, stop including fmv or, indeed, any cutscene longer than about five seconds. How many cheap (and inaccurate) shots at Final Fantasy X do we have to sit, on the supposed grounds that it was just a movie with a few interactive sequences? What precisely is the purpose of attacking games with "epic" plots? Should every game be about a cartoon plumber running around cleaning graffiti off an island?

I think this basically boils down to "disgruntled fanboy syndrome". The journalists writing these articles now are the same breed who, ten years ago (before the Playstation, when gaming could still reasonably be described as niche) were writing about what games needed to do to break into the mainstream. Now that gaming is firmly a mainstream practice, they want nothing more than to push it back into its niche? Why? Ego, mostly.

A lot of these sages figured that when games became a mainstream activity, the nature of the public would change to fit their past-time. They didn't figure on their past-time changing to fit the public. Look at all the Final Fantasy fans who whinge on (often at great length, in slashdot games comments section) about how Square haven't made a good game since Final Fantasy VI and are just interested in milking the franchise these days? Do their claims stand up to close investigation? Not by any objective standard. FFX had a more intricate and nuanced combat system than FFVI, had more "optional" content and a better range of tools available to convey emotional expression. FFX-2, by no means the most popular installment in the series, was a pretty risky venture, taking all kinds of liberties with established gameplay concepts that *could* have simply been milked further to provide a safe cash-flow. The vast majority of those who publically hark back to the so-called glory days of the series are simply trying to boost their own egos by showing all these pesky newcomers that "WE WERE HERE BEFORE YOU" and assuming that their opinions should carry more weight as a result of this.

Alternatively, turn the example around and look at Nintendo. Nintendo's course of action over the last few years (and its probable course over the next couple of years) has been pretty close to what most of these articles seem to be promoting. They've eschewed movie-style production values (look at the absence of voice-acting in Wind Waker, for example) and concentrated on "old school" gameplay concepts. If these articles (and the general thrust of opinion on slashdot games) were correct, Nintendo should be market leaders. In reality, they're faced with declining sales, plummeting market share and a near total absence of any press attention out of the strictly specialist media.

In short, most gaming media articles on "how to save gaming" are in fact nothing more than thinly disguised articles on "how to save the author's job and/or ego".

What I want to know is ...

[Metatron]

... is there anywhere I can do a Masters or PHD in jiggle-physics, this seems like a discipline that requires further study.

More like...

[stupid_is]

The entire article is a bit disgruntled - bits seem cobbled together from that Games Manifesto and the rest is a rant saying "don't target game content at 14 year old males". Oh, wait. That's the main purchaser of games.

Maybe it would be nice if games could alsobe targetted at other markets, but I suspect the interest just isn't there. Just look at films - barring the odd Titanic / English Patient (eww), how many blockbuster chick-flicks are there? Granted they do exist, but the film market dynamics are different. Currently, the market says "geeky boys play games" - hence games focus their sights on geeky boys.

media

[Tom]

And don't think for a minute that the mainstream media doesn't pick up on this.

You mean the way I read articles about the male/female stereotypes in hollywood movies every other day?

The media will pick up whatever it wants, and if it doesn't find something, it creates something.

Remember all the crying of "think of the chiiiildren" back when they found some boobs in a game labeled 17 or older already? Right, that was a major issue for the 9-13 age bracket.

I've got another hint:
Stop worrying about the media and start making better games, you morons.

stop and think

[FidelCatsro]

I am a Man , I like seeing women in skimpy outfits .I do not view them as inferior or lessor beings because some women choose to wear something titillating . In fact I admire their courage and their bodies.
I like jiggling breasts .. It's natural for straight guys to like these types of things.
It is not Evil or wrong for Games to portray this .

They are not treating them as whores , they are treating them as beautiful examples of the female form.
I am not a sexist and believe women deserve equal rights in all things. The fact remains that men like to see scantily clad women and that is not going to change because a few prudes consider this demeaning .
We are not immature idiots , we know that most real women are not like this , but let us keep our fantasies please.(some women also enjoy scantily clad men , look at the success of male strippers )

The complaints about the story lines are silly , some games have better plots than others .. but the most important thing is the game-play . Sure a few stories are rather similar and have some plot holes .. but you would think that these people have never read works of literature .. I can tell you from experience that the same things happen even in the greatest of literary works .

After all these are just games and centre around the interactivity aspect of the story . Sure they do sometimes follow the Hero save damsel from villain plot but honestly it is a tried and true format that works well.

Special effects can be rather cool , So long as they are not over-used or inappropriately used (or lacking inappropriately ).

Cinematic experiences can be part of the games style , what is wrong with that . I don't have much to say on this part as it's really not worth commenting on

Re:stop and think

[emilymildew]

I just took great offence with the comment on that article that just because a female character is portrayed as sexy that we view them as something derogatory or lesser .

The problem is that when you teach a woman that unless she's 6 feet tall with a D cup, a 24 inch waist and a vacant look in her eyes that she doesn't belong in a video game, she IS being taught that she is lesser.

I don't argue that some men appreciate that aspect of the game. Or that some women might like male eye candy. I'm just trying to point out that he might have a valid point as far as how women see a game in which they are portrayed as moronic eye candy.

Re:stop and think

[FidelCatsro]

Perhaps , but then how many stumpy over/under-weight geek guys star in games ...
They are almost all Athletic , muscle bound , Heroic types .(well except Mario and Luigi , but they are still heroic )
There are also a fair few examples of strong female leads .. who admittedly are also Athletic fully formed heroic girls .

Guys get the impression that unless they are toned to perfection , can do a 4 minute mile and bench-press a small car that they are inadequate .. or do they

Yeah games have stereotypes , perhaps more games should fix this .. but do you really want to play a game staring your Systems admin .

  I will agree that occasionally the female leads in some games are a little lacking in the intellect department and are sometimes rather sterio-typical adult movie stars ,that should be addressed .. but then what about the 183CM tall, D cup and intellectually challenged blondes who will start to feel unwanted .

Games are not out there to teach , that's the parents job and the schools job ..

Re:stop and think

[WidescreenFreak]

I'm probably going to regret replying to this, but here goes.

Ditto here.

you are showing women that their role is to be pretty scenery, unimportant to the plot or action.

Emily, please stop jumping on the defensive and speaking in absolutes. No one here makes the assumptions that you always make. (Anyone who does either has not yet finished puberty or is not representative of the "normal" male.)

I agree that there would be no harm in making games with strong, female characters, or al least designing the game so that such a character is strong. However, there is no basis for making the blanket assumption that showing an attractive woman automatically equates to being irrelevant eye candy. But even if it did, the male target audience for these games are males aged 18-37. You have to expect that. Numerous studies (assuming that they're valid) have shown that most female game players are more into strategy, puzzle solving, or other more intellectual games. That market is changing, of course. You see more and more girls/women playing action/fantasy/FPS games than ever before, and a hell of a lot of them can whip their male opponents' collective asses. But they're still not the largest audience.

You also need to keep in mind that most designers are male. As such, they have a tendency to think in those terms. (There are exceptions, of course. Games like the No One Lives Forever series come to mind. Eidos admits to a backlash from the gaming audience for making the latest Laura Croft more top-heavy at the expense of gameplay/story of previous versions.) I remember John Cleese and Terry Jones saying how the Monty Python troupe apologized to Carole Cleveland on multiple occasions because, as they said, "We just didn't know how to write parts for women." Just because you see it as being easy to write strong women into storylines doesn't make it so.

I'm not excusing the game companies from their lack-of-female-character games, but you take these issues far, far too seriously. For example, T2X, an absolutely superb Thief 2 add-on, portrays the lead as one who wants vengeance for the murder of her cousin, of whom she was very fond. Based on your reaction in your post, the T2X team is showing all women to become vindictive, murderous kleptomaniacs when they suffer a personal loss. No one here believes that to be true.

I guess it would be too obvious to state, "Then go and form your own game company - by women, for women." It's also easier said than done, of course.

But the question has to be asked. Have you even bothered to start a grass-roots campaign to both major and independent game companies? I'm sure that question alone is going to garner "troll" or "flamebait" by incompetent mods; but the reality is that complaining on Slashdot isn't going to get these game companies to change their ways, nor is being a single voice who implies that she speaks for a larger segment, nor is putting up your own personal boycott when there are far, far more men who will make up for your single non-sale.

And as for your last question of "And what woman wants to play a game like that?" I know several gaming women just who play exactly the kinds of games that you describe. They look at the gameplay and whether or not the game is an overall enjoyable experience. They don't let comparably minute issues like "women as pretty scenery" bother them because they don't look at the whole issue in absolutes and they don't expect instances in a video game to be the same in the real world. That's why it's called a "game".

*sigh* Well, here come the mods. Who needs karma anyway?

Re:stop and think

[realityfighter]

Let me see how delicately I can put this...

I am a woman. I disagree. Games like Rumble Roses and Dead or Alive Beach Volleyball make me feel pretty shitty. The kind of "appreciation" you're expressing makes me feel pretty shitty, because for most men that appreciation comes before all others. It's demeaning to those of us who actually work to do something of value and meaning with our lives, to have our accomplishments swept aside by that natural titty lust. And somehow you expect a woman to like it simply because you're complimenting her body. What you don't understand is that most of the time what we want is appreciation for what we have done, not for the incidental shape of our tits. (And for those guys who say, "Gee, I wish people treated me like a sex object, hur hur hur!" - No, you don't. Trust me.)

If your body, which is something you have simply by virtue of existing, is the sole reason that people pay attention to you, what worth are your mind, soul, personality, opinions - in essence, the things that make up your sense of self? There's not much value in being "appreciated" like this all the time. Now think about how you would feel if you were ignored for a CGI image of a better body than yours - and probably "better" because you chose to spend your days, say, coding or writing instead of primping and dieting?

Again, this may not reflect how you feel or act, and I don't mean to say that this kind of portrayal is Eeevil in the moral sense. All I'm saying is that you might want to know what goes through my head when I, an actual woman, see a game like this, and why it makes me feel degraded.

I can feel a wave of moronic, misogynistic replies coming because of this post. I'm sorry, guys. If you don't want to understand things like this, it's not our fault that women seem mysterious to you.

Re:stop and think

[FidelCatsro]

Look at the men in those games ... seriously Do you think most of us guys have a single hope in hell of ever looking like that . The men's bodies are as much idealised as the women's.
Most men even if they sat and worked out constantly could never attain these looks couldn't .Well without major plastic surgery and steroid injections .. about the same thing women would have to do to look like those characters .The men are in the stereotypical roles that most of us would not want to fill in real life And the normal guy is ignored in favour of the Adonis type fable .

So why am I not offended by it .

I will tell you how at least one man feels.
I feel that I am secure in myself as a person .I don't need to feel inadequate just because I don't fit some idealised model of what some people think is normal .

You are perpetuating a stereotype of men as immature and driven by physical attraction , men who blindly lust after stereotypes . Some men do , just as some women do .
Men are not from mars , women are not from Venus .. bar a few extremely minor genetic alterations .. we are not that different .

This is how you feel as a specific woman and maybe a lot of other women feel like that .Honestly you shouldn't , there is no need to and the only person making you feel bad is you. Perhaps that some total immature prats .. and trust me there are women who are just the same and who make men feel bad about the way they look.

What it all boils down to is the separation between reality and fantasy
Do you really think I want to be some Adonis killing machine who has relationships with women who have the IQ of a watermelon . In real life ..not a hope in hell , but it makes for some great escapism . That's why it sells , People don't want games that reflect real life.

I have been married for a number of years to a wonderful intelligent woman who I think is the most beautiful thing in the world on all levels. She also does not fit in these stereotypes.

I apologise if this reply seems moronic or misogynist , It was not intended to .It was intended to be egalitarian and give you a little perspective into the male psyche and how I as one man view these things. I would hate to think I am the only man like this but i know for a fact I am not .

Great maths :(

[Doctor Ian]

Article: Instead of spending $20 million to make "THE NEXT HALO!!!,... why not spend $4 million to make five solid games with interesting themes? You might not sell 8 million copies, but with budgets like that, selling 300,000 units will make you serious bank.

5 * 300,000 = 1,500,000.
1 * 8,000,000 = 8,000,000.

8,000,000 > 1,500,000.

Re:Great maths :(

[mdielmann]

Well, here I was going to moderate on this article, but everyone is botching the maths so badly that I had to reply. This post is in response to all the people who apparently can't count above 4, and can't keep track of two sets of numbers at one time.

Option 1:
Number of Games = 5.
Cost = $4M.
Units Sold = 300,000.
Revenue Per Game (based on $50 per unit) = $15M.
Profit Per Game = $11M.
%Profit Per Game = 200% [(11-4)/4*100].
Total Revenue = $75M.
Total Profit = $55M.

Option 2:
Number of Games = 1.
Cost = $20M.
Units Sold = 8,000,000.
Revenue Per Game (based on $50 per unit) = $400M.
Profit Per Game = $380M.
%Profit Per Game = 1900% [(400-20)/20*100].
Total Revenue = $400M again.
Total Profit = $380M again.

Now that you have correct numbers based on the values given in the article, perhaps you'll agree with the doctor that the options listed in the article truly suck.

And stop trying to use math if you aren't qualified. :P

Re:Great maths :(

[Idolminds]

Your one game may bomb. You've put all your money into a single game and have it only sell 300,000 copies. By spreading the money out into 5 games, if each one sells only 300,000 then you're ahead. Or if 3 bomb and they other 2 take off you're still in better shape overall.

Dont put your eggs in one basket. Which I think is a better point to make.

Nothing wrong with video games

[TheSkepticalOptimist]

Its just that the entertainment industry's creative muscle has atrophied and instead of offering new and innovative titles, we get the same formula based and derivative "sequels" and "clones" based on other successful franchises.

Most companies while earning billions of dollars don't want to waste millions developing a software title that may fail. The same is true in Television and Hollywood. The entertainment industry has resolved itself into only a few major companies that generate billions in revenue, but these companies make their billions by not taking risks.

All that is needed to save video games is to start breaking the mold and offering us something new. We don't need GTA or Quake knockoffs, just something new.

Gratuitous sex and violence isn't needed in video games, its a cheap gimmick to drive sales without investing much in innovation. But sex does sell, and as long as any movie, tv show, or game can make millions with it, it will continue to happen.

For the most part, many game formats are old time favourites, we will always love a fast paced FPS or thought provoking RPG or RTS, but rather then 90% of the market being clones of only a handful of original games, just take a risk and offer us something new!

REAL Best Way to Save Video Games

[tommertron]

I thought this article was about saving your current game in games, which is a problem that really bugs me.

To me, the best way to save video games is to be able to save whenever the hell you want, not run around the building/city/world/universe trying to find a save point.

A few questionable examples...

[dreamquick]

For the most part they are pointing out the obvious, however I found it rather ironic that their choice of images to prove their points shows how little they understand games or have bothered to research their choice of imagery beyond "that looks good, we'll use that".

#2 Your Storylines Suck--Get New Ones

The image they've chosen to match this one against is from System Shock 2, one of the few immersive story driven FPS games from that time.

The original system shock defined a genre in a period when "shoot, shoot, shoot, grab the key" was about as deep as the stories in FPS games were. Then half-life 1 stole system-shocks crown by doing nearly everything the original while not leaving you feeling as isolated by adding lots of NPCs you could interact with.

System shock 2 was a fine sequel that built upon elements of the first system shock and made it truely atmoshperic and immersive to the point that it was capable of scaring you.

Yes the storyline still left you as the only live "person" on the ship and partnered with an operator, but that is system shock's style. Maybe they could have done more with it, but honestly I think the team that designed system shock did themselves proud on both the storyline and the game itself.

#5 Cinema is Sinful

The image they've chosen to match this one against is Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas with the general feel of "stop trying to make games like film, because it doesn't work".

Again, really poor research - yes SA did have cinematic cut-scenes but the majority were amazing and really helped define & enhance the underlying story and hold your interest.

Yes, they could have tried doing it all in locked 3rd-person mode so it didn't break the immersion but that wouldn't have worked nearly as well at keeping peoples attention, or setting the scene.

For example in Half-Life and Halo the narrative is delivered from bystanders but for the most part these people are extras who could (and often would) never be seen again so you don't need to develop any attachment to them. Contrast this with SA where you and your extended family are all major characters, each with their own backstory and plotlines which are woven into the main story.

By the time the last "chapter" of SA begins your character has been used and thoroughly betrayed, some of which helps the player remain motivated and understand the events of the final chapter which would have seemed unthinkable at the start of the game.

Hmm ... this may well be the longest thing I've posted on slashdot...

The Attack of the Straw Men

[tolendante]

"Ok, so here's a big one. Why is it that half the games on the market begin with your character as the sole survivor of some mysterious holocaust?"

Hey, I've got an answer for him...they don't. Using hyperbole like this to establish an argument when there are actual real issues that could be discussed is simply bad writing. There are many ways to see that this is a straw man argument. An examination of the past year's releases and the upcoming year's releases shows how lame this argument is. Of the Top 10 releases of 2004, none involve a character who is the "sole survivor of some holocaust." Actually, none are close, though we almost got a holocaust in Halo 2 and we likely will in Halo 3:

• 1. Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (PS2) - 5.1 million
• 2. Halo 2 (Xbox) - 4.2 million
• 3. Madden NFL 2005 (PS2) - 3.2 million
• 4. ESPN NFL 2K5 (PS2) - 1.5 million
• 5. Need for Speed Underground 2 (PS2) - 1.4 million
• 6. Pokémon FireRed (with adapter) (GBA) - 1.2 million
• 7. NBA Live 2005 (PS2) - 1.2 million
• 8. Spider-Man 2 (PS2) - 1.1 million
• 9. Halo: Combat Evolved (Xbox) - 1.1 million
• 10. ESPN NFL 2K5 (Xbox)- 1.0 million

(Note: I'm not interested in his other points at the moment, but it doesn't look like jiggly boobs and a cinematic experience hurt GTA sales all that much and I'm not sure that any of the other titles included T&A. Heck, less than half of them featured a "hero" as the main character. GTA, and arguably the Halo games, feature an anti-hero. The sports games don't focus on a single character, nor do the racing games. So, only Halo, Halo 2, Spiderman, and Pokemon have the player playing as a hero. Only GTA features T&A. Only GTA, Spider-man, and the Halo games feature cinematic cut scenes. Of those, only the Halo games commit his sin of being, God forbid, Epic. I'm not aware that any of the games have you getting captured half-way through the game and having to recover your weapons. I've played lots of games that had you do that back in the 90's. I don't think I've played a single one on the current consoles, but I might be forgetting something.)

Additionally, here is a list of the upcoming releases on the PS2 as previewed by one of the major video game sites. I have marked the ones that don't feature a solo hero in a post-holocaust setting.

• Jak X: Combat Racing****
• Ratchet: Deadlocked****
• World Poker Tour 2K6****
• Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks****
• The Sims 2****
• The Incredibles: Rise of the Underminer****
• Tak: The Great Juju Challenge****
• Brothers in Arms: Earned in Blood****
• Full Spectrum Warrior: Ten Hammers****
• True Crime: New York City****
• Driver: Parallel Lines****
• X-Men Legends II: Rise of Apocalypse****
• Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire****
• Heroes of the Pacific****
• Ultimate Spider-Man****
• World Racing 2****
• Gene Troopers
• DT Racer****
• S.L.A.I. -Steel Lancer Arena International-****
• Knights of the Temple 2****
• Radiata Stories****
• Conflict: Global Terror****
• One Piece Grand Battle!****
• EyeToy: Kinetic****
• Ponkotsu Roman Daikatsugeki Bumpy Trot****
• Evil Dead Regeneration
• Pac-Man World 3****
• World Series of Poker****
• Ryu Ga Gotoku****
• Shining Force Neo****
• Guitar Hero****
• NASCAR 06: Total Team Control****
• StarCraft: Ghost
• Black
• 24: The Game****
• James Bond 007: From Russia With Love****
• Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves****
• Aeon Flux
• Fatal Frame III: The Tormented****
• Trapt****
• The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe****
• Call of Duty 2: Big Red One****
• Crash Tag Team Racing****
• Total Overdose: A Gunslinger's Tale in Mexico****
• Pri

Five ways to save video games

[ArmorFiend]

Five ways to save video games
1. File>Save As...
2. put the CDs in your gun vault
3. cd /dev/cdrom warcraft3.iso
4. wait till the game's in the $5 bin and buy an extra copy
5. just pirate the game from your buddy, and let him worry about it!

"sex-crazed children"

[HTH NE1]

But when you show stupid jiggle-physics and scantily-clad girls cooing and moaning and wriggling, you show yourselves for what you really are: sex-crazed children.

Won't someone please think of the sex-crazed children?!

Re:Hello pot, this is kettle... you're black

[Creepy]

yeah, and it's not exactly like they can treat men as whores (gigolos yes...)

Sillyness aside, I completely agree - heck, extend that to all media, though the fat and/or ugly guy/girl could make a career in radio if they have a sexy voice (for some reason the 90s song "I might like you better if we slept together" comes to mind, but I've also seen DJs that fall into that category).

What exactly is not demeaning to women, a tiny breasted lesbian woman with a butch hairdo and pant suit that has a man hating attitude in-game? To sell any copies you'd better have great gameplay, have a non-offensive or tongue-in-cheek attitude and a lot of word-of-mouth from the GLBT crowd. How about modeling the character after Betty Crocker? Which would sell to anyone better, the Betty Crocker beach volleyball or DoA Extreme Beach Volleyball? Even if Betty Crocker gameplay is WAAAY better, I doubt it'd sell more, even though Betty is a composite of a generic woman made to appeal to all women of all ages. Think of it this way - why does one watch beach volleyball? It's probably not for the game, or regular volleyball would fill stadiums.

    What about a dress or skirt? Where do you draw the line at being too high cut for a skirt or low cut (in the bosom) for a dress? A similar sort of criteria could be applied to guys (pulling straight from Duke Nukem, muscles?, shirt?, sunglasses? pant bulge?).

How about skintight leather? Is that demeaning or empowering (think Catwoman... er, make that Underworld... er, Bloodrayne... er, just picture it in your mind)? Skintight black leather on women is traditionally associated with S&M, often with a woman in charge (at least in US media). So in one respect you have the empowered woman in control, yet you also have the duality that most men find skintight leather sexy, whether they're into S&M or not, which is demeaning.

Stop whining

[Gravedigger3]

Wow i've seen this same article written by 15 different people. Its ironic to see a writer complaining about originallity as he writes the same complaints that have been posted dozens of times on a number of different sites.

And for the record I LOVE having hot busty women and big testorone filled guys in my games. I dont want to play DOA with some 45 year old fat chick that looks like the lunchlady from my old high school. And i dont want the hero of Far Cry to be some gangly redneck with a beer belly.

We are playing games to escape into a fantasy world and I want to see fantasy characters. I love the hot chicks in revealing clothes and the tough guys with big muscles and so do most people i know personally. In fact I have never met anyone who complained that the chicks were "too revealing in DOA" or that the main character in Halo was "too tough"

If you want real life go walk around outside. If you want hero's and fantasy worlds and hot women with unrealistic proportions play games.

Save? from what?

[AzraelKans]

I dont know if you've heard, but right now the gaming industry is BEATING the movie industry. Right now people are a lot more hyped about getting their clutches on a "next gen" console and titles than in any movie coming this or next year.

And yes they are making halo 3, MGS4, GTA for PSP and DOA4 plan on banking several million bucks, apparently disregarding your "saving" extreme advices.

Anyone find it interesting...

[Forum Joe]

...that he's criticising the best selling games of 2004-2005? One slashdotter was correct when he commented above that these industry commentators just want to push gaming back into a niche market. They can't handle the fact that it's grown into the mainstream.

I mean, come on, lets look at what points he really has:

#1 Stop Treating Women Like Whores
At least he admits that television and movies have been doing the same for years, but no one has said that those industries should stop it if they want to be "saved". Why is computer gaming any different? Sure, he has a point, but I don't really consider it a problem until all games are treating women like sex objects. There's enough counter-examples out there (Resident Evil, Beyond Good And Evil, Perfect Dark, Final Fantasy X, etc) to not get worried yet.

#2 Your Storylines Suck--Get New Ones
Wait, what? Let me get this straight... He's ciriticising System Shock 2 and Half Life for having derivative storylines? Two of the most highly rated FPSs of all times, both having won many Game Of The Year awards, yet they both have derivative story lines. Oh I'm sorry, Mr "there is only one story in the world" you come up with something better. FPSs are exactly that, First Person Shooters. The story will always revolve around one man (or woman) because it's First Person, and until the technology for realistic squad AI or personal interaction came along, it was decidedly easier to reduce the human interaction. Besides, people who play FPSs don't want to be swamped by character interaction. A little bit, maybe, but mostly they just want to shoot things. So developers write story lines around that. Now, mister smarty pants, you develop an "original" story that involves one person, unravelling a mystery, without any character interaction. Go on, I dare ya! Chances are it's going to involve:
a) Getting transported to an alien planet (Doom)
b) Armageddon (Doom 2)
c) A Killer virus (Pariah)
d) Zombies (Resident Evil)
e) Conspiracy Theory (Max Payne)

If you can come up with a better reason why one man might be alone against the masses then suggest it. Until then, I think your argument is pretty weak. There are only so many story lines out there, especially for one lone soldier.

#3 Enough with the Epics
Oh. Sorry... Yes, you're right, we don't need anymore epic games. We need more mundane games where people do mundane things. Paperboy, anyone?
We need less heroes? We need more "everyday people"? I'm sorry, but I'm an everyday person, and I play games for escapism. I play grand theft auto because I do things there I can't do in real life. I can't shoot cops, I can't fly helicopters, I can't ride bikes ten times faster than the speed limit. The last thing I want to do is play an everyday game with an everyday character. I find The Sims boring, though I understand its appeal. But I also think its a niche and more sim-like games will fail to succeed. Why on earth would I want to play a game about everyday people?
Same as with the first example, if every game in the world were basing themselves on a heroic character that has to save the world, maybe I'd be worried. There are enough counter-examples not to worry.

#4 Stop with the Spectacles
This one's a bit iffy, and I do think some of the games he mentions have problems. Doom 3 is a classic example of too much work on the graphics and the engine and not enough on the gameplay. Sure it looks pretty, but I think the game suffers because of it. Halo 2 I haven't played, so I can't comment on, but in answer to one of the questions he poses on Half Life 2... Yes, I think it is a great game and the physics model complements the game experience rather than dominating it. Spectacles are great to enhance a good game, not to make a bad game into a good game. But that just comes down to basic game design "What makes a good game?" Developers shouldn't stop building spectacles, they should jus