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Massachusetts Finalizes OpenDocument Standard Plan

wellington map writes "The state of Massachusetts has finalized a proposed move to an open, nonproprietary format for office documents, a plan that involves phasing out versions of Microsoft's Office productivity suite deployed in the state's executive branch agencies. Massachusetts expects its agencies to develop phased migration plans away from productivity suites that do not support OpenDocument, with a target implementation date of January 1, 2007. Looks like it's finally cemented after some heated discussions."

24 of 210 comments (clear)

  1. lately... by rd4tech · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... governments are getting geekier.

    1. Re:lately... by MyLongNickName · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, they aren't. They are looking for ways to meet budgets. Not that this is a bad thing. They see their annual expenditure on IT and look for a way to cut costs. Open Source has been big news the past couple years (outside of geek circles). PHB thinks "hmmm this might be a good idea" In this case, PHB is right.

      I also have seen the quality of tech support in several local gov't situation. Usually below industry pay rate (but nice benefits). And the hiring process favors women, minorities, those with prior civil service experience and military background. Some of the dumbest folks you ever want to meet are working for your local gov't. I had one "sys admin" forward me an e-mail about a dangerous file on my system that I had to delete... turned out to be a critical windows file.

      So point is, this decision wasn't made based upon tech savvy. It was made based upon cost.

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    2. Re:lately... by Atzanteol · · Score: 5, Insightful
      They stated three things they wanted in a format (the things they used to define as open):

      1. No single vendor controlling the format
      2. A spec that is available to anybody who wants it (purchase in a store, download from site
      3. No cost to implement the spec to anybody and no patents encombering the spec.

      They were very smart IMHO. It's not trend-following. In fact they sort of appologize for not getting to this earlier (talking about how government tends to actually trail behind the private sector). Their reasoning is that they never want to need to worry in the future about being able to read old documents (MS can't make this guarantee - remember that state documents live for hundreds of years!). This was the big sticking point mostly. They also don't like one vendor controlling what they can do with their documents and didn't want to require the public to purchase expensive software to view these documents.

      This is one of the few times I'm glad to be from Massachusetts. They had very well thought-out reasons behind this. The Microsoft representative couldn't even argue with them (though it sounds like he'd just gotten off a flight so he was probably pretty tired).

      They stated that they don't require Open Office, just software that implements the OASIS spec. Microsoft is free to do so and then they will consider Office. It was the most complete spec that they found that offers all of the above points. I highly suggest listening to that recording. It's long, but not terribly boring (mostly techies in the room - few lawyers).
      --
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    3. Re:lately... by swillden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I suspect the problem you describe is primarily due to the age of the data file and not some much with the data file being in a proprietary format. As the open file format evolves it's likely you will encounter the same issue.

      No, not the same issue. If Access 1.0 had used an open format, even if I couldn't acquire a copy of a sufficiently old version of Access, I could always read the specification and implement a translator that converts to a newer format which modern software can read. Now, whether or not that's worth the effort depends on the circumstances, but it would be orders of magnitude easier than reverse-engineering the format, or finding some way to acquire the ancient software and the infrastructure needed to run it.

      And, odds are, given an open format someone else will have already written the translator and published it as open source. Especially if the format in question was widely used.

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  2. Good on 'Em, mate! :-) by mfh · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Seriously, I like it. I like the fact that govs are looking at the bottom line and trying to streamline operations. Phasing out Microsoft? That would have been unheard of ----- last year.

    I am happy to hear the Chew'setts have the brass tacks to pull something like this off and I can't wait to see Microsoft shoot themselves in the foot on this one.

    --
    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
    1. Re:Good on 'Em, mate! :-) by pallmall1 · · Score: 3, Funny

      This is good news. When I heard Mass. had made its policy final, I immediately went to OpenOffice.org and downloaded OpenOffice.org 2 beta and installed it on my Debian system. I created a new text document, and when I saved it, the default format was OpenDocument! And it worked great. It's fitting that Mass. is leading the way. This is like the Boston Tea party.

      Here's to the Boston Office party!

      --
      3 things about computers: they're alive, they're self-aware, and they hate your guts.
    2. Re:Good on 'Em, mate! :-) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well I wouldn't say they are phasing out Microsoft. If you listened to the mp3 that was made available. They made it very clear their up most concerns about document retention. They also made it very clear how vendors can comply with their requirements. Since the Microsoft representative had a hard time understanding their requirements, MA itemized what Microsoft needed to do. And still Microsoft took the position the customer does not have the right to define their own requirements and must use what ever Microsoft deems they should.

      Of all the company representatives present during that meeting, I did not hear one objecting to the goals MA has in mind, except one. And some of those companies present are not from the backwoods.

      If anyone is phasing anyone one out, it is Microsoft doing it to themselves.

    3. Re:Good on 'Em, mate! :-) by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think it's pretty clear that at some point someone is simply going to write an Office plugin that opens and saves in the format, so this whole debate over what MS will or will not do will be moot. But I think that MS's behavior in this instance demonstrates that it is still the monopolist it was convicted of being. I hope Massachussets has the clout to carry this out, but I'm still a little dubious.

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  3. MS Will Come Around Eventually by blueZhift · · Score: 5, Interesting

    While it will take more than days, I think that Microsoft will eventually come around and support OpenDocument. There's no technical reason that they cannot and Microsoft can't afford to let big customers get away. Once large companies and governments realize that they can get along just fine without Microsoft products, it will be even harder to get them back on the crack, so to speak. So I wouldn't be surprised if there are already betas running in Microsoft somewhere that support OpenDocument and they run on the Microsoft Linux Distro too!

    Anyway, in the end, the customer is always right. So Microsoft will come around if OpenDocument gets any kind of real traction.

    1. Re:MS Will Come Around Eventually by jkrise · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Likewise Open LDAP, Open HTML :-)... Open Groupware instead of locked down Exchange bloatware formats and MTAs and protocls.... Open FS instead of WinFS.. Open Database - okay that's there with ODBC... hmm. Interesting times ahead.

      --
      If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
  4. In Related News... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One of the guys behind KOffice has just posted an open letter refuting a few aspects Alan Yates/Microsoft's criticism of open doc.

  5. Microsoft just trying to stop Massachusetts... by Zweideutig · · Score: 4, Funny

    from choose somehting truely open. I am suer this OpenDocument format will not leave Microsoft's doors without a license that says you won't use it with GNU-licensed software (or maybe even MIT and BSD.) They don't want people having Office interoperability with non-Microsoft products anymore than they want people replacing Office (namely Word and Excel) entirely. Of course, if they do allow things like OOo and abiword to open and edit their OpenDocument-formatted documents, at least Massachusetts won't be as angry and they will probably still get plenty of customers buying Office. However, now it will be more difficult to force upgrades. Institutions are already fed up with Office costs and many (like the local school system) are using OpenOffice.org instead. I predict that Office will become much less profitable if everyone starts using OpenDocument format.

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    1. Re:Microsoft just trying to stop Massachusetts... by aled · · Score: 3, Informative

      Opendocument is a format backed from OASIS (Organization for the Advancement of Structured Information Standards), previously named SGML Group. It's not of Microsoft and it can be viewed as an open alternative to propietary MS Office format. Openoffice 2 implements this format as it's default format. Microsoft have no ownership on OpenDocument and it's wary that its widespread use will downplay the need to use MS Office and open the door to alternative packages, usually open source.
      Note: while MS Office documents can be open in abiword and openoffice, it's kind of a closed format that can never be 100 percent documented, so compability can't be perfect. Only MS Office use fully the format so there's a dependency on Microsoft by using its format.

      --

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  6. Re:Why? by Atzanteol · · Score: 5, Insightful

    See my post here: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=163269&cid=136 37741

    There is a recording of the Mass Technology Leadership Council discussing their reasons here: http://www.softwaregarden.com/cgi-bin/oss-sig/wiki .pl?OpenFormatMeetingSept2005

    Basically they're very afraid of proprietary document formats (and rightly so). Especially when they consider archival purposes. 20 years from now do you want to find a copy of Word '98 to be able to read old state documents? Right now I can go to the basement of Harvard and read law books from the 1800's!

    They're also concerned about requiring the public to purchase expensive software from a single vendor in order to view "public" documents. They state time and time again what their requirements for a doc format are, and that if Microsoft were to offer one they would consider it. MS, unsurprisingly, does not offer one...

    --
    "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

    - Charles Darwin
  7. This will be M$'s strategy... by bogaboga · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I am speculating that M$'s next strategy will be to get a mandate from the next high authority. This time, it will be the Federal government. I understand that in the union, the Federal government can overrule a state's authority.

    By the way, what will happen when the Federal government sends documents to Massachusetts in word format? Would the state send them back?

    Suppose M$ suddenly decides to support OpenDocument, gets the state's business and then issues a "security patch", that introduces proprietary extensions as has been in the past?

    1. Re:This will be M$'s strategy... by John+Hasler · · Score: 4, Informative

      > I understand that in the union, the Federal government can overrule
      > a state's authority.

      You do not understand correctly.

      > By the way, what will happen when the Federal government sends
      > documents to Massachusetts in word format? Would the state send
      > them back?

      The state will read them with OpenOffice, of course. What do you think?

      > Suppose M$ suddenly decides to support OpenDocument, gets the
      > state's business and then issues a "security patch", that
      > introduces proprietary extensions as has been in the past?

      Either the "extensions" will be turned off or Microsoft will lose the state's business again, and perhaps find itself in court for breach of contract.

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  8. Re:Why? by Naviztirf · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Well, I can think of an easy answer: to begin to get out of the financial box MS has put most US governments. I can only speak about my own experience working in IT for Multnomah County in Portland, OR, but I know that they were spending millions each year on MS licensing fees, both for OS and Office applications. Sure, it can be expensive to switch IT standards, but it seems to me the more governments rely on open standards and open source software the less they have to spend keeping expensive proprietary software around. As a side note, Oregon at one point was considering a bill that would force local government IT to consider open source when making technology decisions. A move that had MS down there in a jiffy with a team of FUD spreading lawyers who quickly squashed it. As a partial result, Multnomah county is now 100% MS, no NetWare, no Linux, no alternatives allowed. They even fired or demoted those who refused to switch....

  9. Why aren't big companies doing this? by HangingChad · · Score: 4, Insightful
    You have to wonder why more big companies aren't setting an open file format standard? It would ensure that 10 years from now you could still access archived data.

    Whenever I bring it up to any of my clients, government or private side, they give me that deer in the headlights look. Even if you can dig out an old backup tape and demonstrate the files aren't conveniently recoverable it still doesn't seem to sink in.

    The same with database storage. I'm amazed how many companies don't even have a freakin data dictionary. If you have to ask why you need one of those, then you need one. Maybe you just really like transposing fields and data types on the fly between every application you build. People must find that pleasurable because there's sure enough of them doing it.

    --
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  10. Re:Why? by Jason+Earl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Massachussets stated reason for switching to the OpenDocument format is that it allows them to guarantee access to important state documents. However, my guess is that this is just a fancy sugar coating over the real reason for switching, and that reason is the cost of migrating to Office 12. There is a very interesting exchange in the MP3 of the recent meeting that the state officers had with various software companies in which, after nearly an hour of saying that the state didn't want to talk about procurement, one of the Mass. officers let the Microsoft team have it right between the eyes. Basically he laid out the costs that Massachussetts would incur in a switch to MS Office 12, and it was clear that the costs were much higher than a switch to OO.org.

    Massachussets is going to have to switch document formats no matter what they do. The new version of MS Office 12 is going to have a completely new set of document formats that won't be backwards compatible. Yes, Microsoft has promised plugins for some of the older versions of MS Office that will read and write these new formats, and yes Microsoft has tools that allow for batch conversion of documents, but OpenOffice.org has this as well. The state of Massachussetts has an estimated 50,000 desktops, primarily running Windows 2000. In order to use MS Office 12 Massachussetts would have to upgrade the operating system on all of these boxes, and in many cases it would need to purchase new hardware to boot. Not only that, but Office 12 also has an entirely redesigned user interface which would require additional user training.

    Do you see where this is going? Massachussetts estimates (using past knowlegde of similar Microsoft updates) that a move to Office 12 would cost $50 million dollars. A move to OpenOffice.org is estimated to cost an order of magnitude less ($5 million dollars). Heck, if Microsoft is going to force their customers to a new set of file formats, with a new UI, and a new operating system then its almost certain that OO.org on their existing operating system and using existing hardware will be less expensive. OO.org also forces you to use a new file format and it will require training, but Massachussetts won't have to throw an OS upgrade into the mix.

    The reason that Massachussetts can get away with the switch is that they are big enough that they can simply mandate a file format and expect people that deal with them to make the switch. You don't argue with the bureaucrats. If they want their documents in OpenDocument formats then you simply find a way to send them OpenDocument formats. The fact that the software necessary to deal with the state government is going to be a free download is just a bonus. If Massachussetts required MS Office 12, or WordPerfect, or even LaTeX that's what people would send them.

    One thing is certain, a lot of businesses and individuals in Massachussetts are going to find it necessary to download and install OpenOffice.org, and many of them are going to like what they find. It's almost certainly going to become much more difficult to sell new versions of MS Office in Massachussetts. After all, unless you are some sort of MS Office power user you are not even likely to be able to tell the difference between the two programs, and OO.org is going to be required for dealing with the government.

  11. Re:And the results of this: by GrungyLotG · · Score: 5, Informative

    This sounds very similar to what Microsoft is doing with HTML/CSS/JS. Before they release a new browser, they state how CSS2 is "flawed," and therefore we wont support it (And I'm betting that they will add propritary functions that do a similar thing). The same thing happened with the half-assed support of pretty much any standards in HTML/JS...yes, they might have one or two parts that follow standards, but the rest is either proprietary, or a horrible "improved" take on the standards.

    I'm sure MS will attempt to do the same thing to ODT files. They will make some fairly basic functions in Office stored in a "enhanced" form, which, ofcourse, only works in MS Office. Judging from past experiance, the "standard" files genorated by Office would be a horrible mash of invalid markup, useless elements, and namespaces that server no purpose; except to break compatibility with any other program. In their usual style, they will probally hide a series of options hidden under 12 dialog windows which are the only way to genorate an actual standard document. Not only this, those options would probally pop up a "scary sounding" warning when disabled, to stop the non-techies among us from changing them.

    Just to back this up, look at the XML Word genorates for a document that only contains "Hello world!" (No, I'm not joking, check for yourself).

    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="yes"?>
    <?mso-application progid="Word.Document"?>
    <w:wordDocument xmlns:w="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/ 2003/wordml" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:sl="http://schemas.microsoft.com/schemaLibra ry/2003/core" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/c ore" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word /2003/auxHint" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:dt="uuid:C2F41010-65B3-11d1-A29F-00AA00C1488 2" w:macrosPresent="no" w:embeddedObjPresent="no" w:ocxPresent="no" xml:space="preserve"><o:DocumentProperties><o:Titl e>Hello World</o:Title><o:Author>Mike Koval</o:Author><o:LastAuthor>zzz</o:LastAuthor><o :Revision>1</o:Revision><o:TotalTime>0</o:TotalTim e><o:Created>2005-09-24T15:20:00Z</o:Created><o:La stSaved>2005-09-24T15:20:00Z</o:LastSaved><o:Pages >1</o:Pages><o:Words>1</o:Words><o:Characters>12</ o:Characters><o:Lines>1</o:Lines><o:Paragraphs>1</ o:Paragraphs><o:CharactersWithSpaces>12</o:Charact ersWithSpaces><o:Version>11.5604</o:Version></o:Do cumentProperties><w:fonts><w:defaultFonts w:ascii="Times New Roman" w:fareast="Times New Roman" w:h-ansi="Times New Roman" w:cs="Times New Roman"/></w:fonts><w:styles><w:versionOfBuiltInSty lenames w:val="4"/><w:latentStyles w:defLockedState="off" w:latentStyleCount="156"/><w:style w:type="paragraph" w:default="on" w:styleId="Normal"><w:name w:val="Normal"/><w:rPr><wx:font wx:val="Times New Roman"/><w:sz w:val="24"/><w:sz-cs w:val="24"/><w:lang w:val="EN-US" w:fareast="EN-US" w:bidi="AR-SA"/></w:rPr></w:style><w:style w:type="character" w:default="on" w:styleId="DefaultParagraphFont"><w:name w:val="Default Paragraph Font"/><w:semiHidden/></w:style><w:style w:type="table" w:default="on" w:styleId="TableNormal"><w:name w:val="Normal Table"/><wx:uiName wx:val="Table Normal"/><w:semiHidden/><w:rPr><wx:font wx:val="Times New Roman"/></w:rPr><w:tblPr><w:t

  12. MS could embrace this and stop the bleeding by dodongo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That the format isn't supported in all office suites isn't anyone else's fault but Microsoft's. If MS was quick about this, they could easily incorporate the OD standard into an upcoming release of their Office suite. In fact, I believe they have one coming up, as luck would have it. Hell, include a patch to backport that feature to whatever Office (12-1) was called.

    In this way, they could show governments that they *can* move to open standards, while still maintaining their (for MS) lucrative relationship. Instead, as per usual, we get stonewalling out of Redmond.

  13. Re:long overdue by idamaybrown · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "OpenOffice and XML are pretty much standard nowadays"

    Is this true? Are most users running Open Office? Is it 5%?, 10%?, 50%??? It is A standard, but is it THE standard?

  14. Software As A Commodity by AeroIllini · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is just one step in the eventual commoditization of major software products. Eventually, because of open formats, the interconnected nature of the internet, and tightening IT budgets, there will be nothing Microsoft (or any other private company for that matter) can offer in a word processor to justify the price difference from Open Source alternatives. The same will be true for other types of software, such as spreadsheets, browsers, even operating systems. As a result, these types of "ninty-percenter" software will become commodities; each brand will be basically the same as every other brand, including OpenSource. And no one can compete with free.

    Once this happens (and it already is, slowly), the software companies will have to make their money by creating "ten-percenter" software: highly specialized software contracted and built specifically for another company, or a niche market. To use an analogy, the "ninety-percenter" software market right now is like tract housing. Companies build products that they think people will like, and then sell them when the product is finished. The future of software design is much more like contract housing; people contact a company, tell them what they want in their product, and the company builds it for a contract fee, specifically for that customer. Both types of software development co-exist now, but soon the tract style will not be maintainable as a business model since groups of people are giving away tract houses for free.

    Microsoft is struggling right now with the future of their products. Microsoft Office will soon be obsolete if MS continues their current business model, since there will be nothing to justify its high price. Right now, Microsoft maintains their pricepoint with vendor lock-in; but as soon as every major company and government is using open standards, MS Office will be just one choice out of several. I can see Microsoft Office being quite profitable in a commodity market, but Microsoft will have to add more than just office-suite productivity to their software. They have to offer more value than the next guy: in the form of tech support, or service contracts, or collaboration/version tracking software, or any of a number of things that would add value to the commodity. The commodity alone will not be enough.

    This is a very good move by Massachusetts; in the long run, it will protect valuable data from vendor lock-in, and eventually foster competition in the office suite marketplace. Competition is always a Good Thing(tm).

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  15. Re:MS Office already uses open formats by WhiteWolf666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    XML != open.

    Wikipedia defines XML: "The Extensible Markup Language (XML) is a W3C-recommended general-purpose markup language for creating special-purpose markup languages. It is a simplified subset of SGML, capable of describing many different kinds of data. Its primary purpose is to facilitate the sharing of data across different systems, particularly systems connected via the Internet. Languages based on XML (for example, RDF, RSS, MathML, XHTML, SVG, and cXML) are defined in a formal way, allowing programs to modify and validate documents in these languages without prior knowledge of their form.

    One uses XML to 'define' a document format. The problem is that one could easily define a format (schema), permit royalty free-licensing, but 'patent' the schema/format.

    Remember GIF?

    MS XML formats have this problem. One, there are a couple licensing requirements. Two, the royalty-free license does *not* grant the licensee rights to use any MS patents that the document format may utilize. Even if one interprets some as the text as granting a right to the patents for certain implementations of MS XML, there's no reason to believe you have a perpetual right to those patents.

    MS has some control over who can implement these formats, and for instruments of public policy, that is simply not acceptable.

    MS is free to implement OASIS formats, because everyone is free to implement them. Governments are having to upgrade anyways--> DOC is being phased out. It's either switch to OASIS (ISO-approved), with multi-vendor support, and shipping software that supports it; or switch to MS Office Open XML, which hasn't been released yet, which *no* software on the market currently supports, which is not vendor neutral in implementation, and is not any kind of 'official' standard.

    People use DOC over all the other formats because it has marketshare. MS Office Open XML has 0 marketshare right now. It has to compete on its merits alone, and a such, is failing.

    Read here for more information:
    http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/why-opendocument-wo n.html

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