Slashdot Mirror
Tivo Institutes 1 Year Service Contracts
azoblue writes "TiVo recently changed their customer agreement, allowing them to institute service contracts with early cancellation fees." From the article: "According to the new service agreement, any TiVo activated after September 6 will require a 12-month commitment. Those who cancel before the end of their contract, or have their contracts terminated by TiVo, will be forced to pay a $150 early termination fee ... Although not specified in the new agreement, some customers have reported that adding a new TiVo to their service makes contracts activated before that date also applicable to the new policy."
I was flirting with getting a tivo, but have reconsidered. I already have a DVD recorder, and as much of a pain as it is, I'm going to build a mythtv box. Tivo obviously does not care about their consumers, only about money and fellating hollywood.
I hate sigs.
According to the new service agreement, any TiVo activated after September 6 will require a 12-month commitment. Those who cancel before the end of their contract, or have their contracts terminated by TiVo, will be forced to pay a $150 early termination fee.
Well, with rebates that bring the devices under $50 and their recent radically retarded decisions such as presenting ads to users that bought a Tivo to rid themselves of ads, etc, it's no wonder they are going to these lengths!
I was the first to support Tivo for what their device and service did for my household. I am also the first to complain to Tivo and Slashdot (and various others including my parents who I had originally suggested a Tivo) that their service is no longer worth it.
Good riddance Tivo. While I still use your product (DirecTivo), I'm glad I'm not obligated to fall under any of your contractual and flighty mishaps.
Digital cable (even basic cable) is getting extremely high priced, and this is with no DVR style record feature. Not keen on a satelite dish either, heard some horror stories from other family members and friends.
TiVo looked great, record what you want when you want so you never miss something. Skip commericals (bout frakking time) and more. Now they've taken some ancient MSN/AOL type deal where you gotta have a service plan contract? Sorry, no thank you.
What if something where to happen where you couldn't afford that TiVo every month? (Granted yes money management saves alot but anyone can fall on tough times), you suddenly gotta cough up $150 flat fee cause you needed to save a few monthly payments and use it for gas or food? Yea, that'll go over real well.
Watch for a slow rise in the bittorrent community in the coming year or so as more TiVo like providers probably switch to similar "plans".
Aw Frell this
According to this article the company has been able to silently (and with no-opt-out policy) upgrade the TiVo to include the red flag stuff(some shows can be delete or not retained more than 7 days...you know..)
Very..."unconfortable"...
From boing boing:
Earlier this month, TiVo owners discovered that a mandatory, non-optional "update" to their TiVos changed the built-in software so that broadcasters could flag certain shows for automatic deletion and for restriction from use with TiVoToGo. David Zatz, a TiVo owner, decided to cancel his TiVo service. After all, he'd bought a device that could record all shows, not one that could record all shows save those that some paranoid Hollywood exec, overzealous broadcaster, or fumble-fingered technician gave him permission to record. TiVo had broken his device and he didn't want to keep using it. But when he looked up canceling his TiVo, he found out that under the terms of his "agreement" with TiVo (e.g., the crap he clicked through when get got set up), he was obliged to pay a $150 "early cancellation" fee.
Apple iProduct. Non importa cosa sia, lo comprerete!
Just a change in business plans, RTFA. Tivo is giving deep discounts and rebates for the hardware. $50 for a Tivo means that they *have* to get a service commitment to break even.
Nothing new here, move along...
"Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
...Are they trying to get rid of their customers?
I mean, a few years ago, Tivo was a wonderful, one-of-a-kind service. Back then, maybe something like this would fly. But now, with virtually every cable company out there offering their own DVRs, the novelty of having a tivo has pretty much worn off. Sure, nobody's DVR can match the ease of use or features of a Tivo, but I don't think a tivo is worth the $150 price premium they're imposing on their users.
I have two Tivos, a 40 hour and a 140 hour. I have them cuz they 'just work', and I haven't gotten around to building a stable MythTV box yet. I'm also a Tivo Rewards member, with 6 referrals under my belt. With this new pricing strategy, those two Tivos will be the last I ever buy, and I'll never recommend a Tivo to anybody again.
- Take the consumers' money
- Cancel their agreement the next day, before providing any services
- Another $150 PROFIT!
Sounds fishy to me that they get to break the agreement, and the CONSUMER is penalized. It should be whoever breaks the agreement owes the other party. If its the consumer, they ante up $150. If its TIVO, Tivo should have to have the same obligation. After all, a contract is a contract. Whichever party breaks it should compensate the other party.What they're doing is the same as the cell phone companies have done for years here in the US. They reduce the price of the phone to below wholesale to get you to sign up, then they get you to stay by signing the 1 year contract. You might be able to get out of signing a contract if you pay full price for the Tivo...
Every time you call tech support, a little kitten dies.
I have a MythTV box and I'm tired of maintaining it (Gentoo-based VIA EPIA 1.0ghz C3 Nehemiah utilizing Hauppauge PVR 250). I value my time and I hate tinkering with the system to keep it working (e.g., NTP won't run as often as it should, so my recordings are off by 20-30 secs and I have to login and manually run ntpdate).
I really want to sell the whole thing that cost me over $400 to build and switch to a Tivo. With Tivo, I could spend $200 on a box (get $150 back in a rebate) and pay $14/mo for service. Sounds good so far. This 1-yr contract doesn't bother me as much (like with my cell phone) as long as the thing works. The only real worry is the DRM and the fact that they control their service from afar.
I know people are going to say "blah blah, this is why you should switch to MythTV." Has anyone been successful in prototyping a Mythbox (such that it just works for long periods of time without having to worry about tweaks and workarounds)? If so, please tell me how.
Otherwise, I'm afraid Tivo seems the better way to go if you value your free time.
They're giving 150 rebate for new users so that a tivo box only costs 50 dollars, they're gonna execute that 150 fee back at those people if they cancel.
a contract is a contract, except when it's between a little customer and a giant corporation. then it's always in the company's favor regardless of merit.
Science : Proprietary , Knowledge : Open Source
The story is complete misinformation. The 1 year service issues only apply to machines bought now that qualify for a $150 rebate. If you don't keep your TiVo service active for a full year, you get a chargeback for your $150 rebate. All other TiVos use the old monthly service charges or you can buy a lifetime subscription. This is a non-issue.
Since you can buy TiVo units for a cost of $50 now (and for a brief time, you could actually make a $50 PROFIT buying a $100 TiVo on Amazon and getting a $150 rebate) it only makes sense for TiVo to protect themselves from people buying cheap units for the rebate, then dumping them on eBay.
A long time ago, I spoke to one of the top executives at TiVo, he told me that they make no money on hardware sales, they gave all those profits to the hardware manufacturers, they make money only on subscriptions and subsidiary projects like advertising. TiVo is giving up $150, the equivalent of a full year's subscription fees, just to move more hardware. It is a gift to their hardware producing partners. It only makes sense for TiVo to protect themselves from unscrupulous buyers exploiting this project.
That's bullshit. You can't unilaterally alter a pre-existing contract. It would be like buying a second cell phone on a second line, and being charged an early cancellation fee on both lines if you changed services, even though your first cell line is already fully-amortized.
That's why I use Windows Media Center edition 2005, bought a $50 200GB HD and $50 TV card, put them in old AMD 1700+ computer and I pay no monthly fee.
Only if you allow it to be that way. First, NEVER sign something without reading it. If you don't understand the agreement and can't get a satisfactory explaination, don't sign. If a company fails to live up to their end of the deal, explore your legal options. That doesn't usually mean hiring an expensive attorney. The business is most likely regulated by multiple local and federal agencies, and threats to file complaints usually result in action being taken. Most businesses scam people who are content to allow themselves to be scammed.
I think that Tivo wanted to see what 65,000,000 middle fingers looked like all at once.
Karma: a simple way of silencing those with unpopular views regardless how correct or just that view might be.
Ok, I'm still stunned there are people who haven't decided to get a TiVo yet in this day and age. Slashdot comments like "Well, I was on the fence.. I was about to get one.. But NOW.. nope!" are astounding.. If you don't have one already, I don't get the feeling you were about to sign up anytime soon.. What else did the box need to do for you - produce gold?
As for this most recent news article, it shouldn't affect anyone who's thought about this for more than 10-15 seconds.. Paying the $12/month fee is a suckers game - they let you pay a one-time fee (originally $199, then $249, now I think $299) for the LIFETIME of the unit.. If you have it more than 2 years, the lifetime subscription paid for itself and you're free - if you opted to pay $12 per month, you're losing money.
Who are these slashdot readers who are getting paid so poorly that they can't afford $299 up-front instead of the screw-you-layaway-plan option? They are the only ones who are affected or should be complaining about this change.
Every time TiVo makes some change that lets them stay alive, someone's there to complain that they're not going with them now. No one's buying it - you're not getting the company to change their plan - they're not reading slashdot to see if you're happy about it or not.
Oh yeah - one last thing.. From now on, anyone considering getting a TiVo: TiVo Inc just made it easier to see that the $$/month is a sucker's game.. To "make out" on that deal you'd have to buy a TiVo, decide AFTER a year that you don't like it, but BEFORE two years.. Then maybe you'd save UP TO $150.. Again - who is making these low salaries?!
(and yes, I know DirecTivo people don't have the lifetime option - but then again DirecTV isn't marketing DirecTiVos anymore either)
..Jeff Keegan
seven syllables explain TiVo: kee gan dot org slash ti vo
Yeah, that sounds user-friendly. No wonder Linux is flying off the shelves.
That's how I got out of my AT&T/Cingular contract. While Cingular is still trying to claim that it is impossible for them to fulfill thier contracts with AT&T bought customers, after filling a complaint with the FCC, I got a call from their "office of the president". When I kept pressing the person on the phone, and kept telling them that they are under contract, and breaking my phone service is a violation of that contract, they eventually cancelled my contract withour penelty.
The conversation went along the lines of...
Me: You have broken my phone. You need to fix the service or cancel the contract without penalty.
Cingular: We are aware of the problem, it is caused by our upgrades to the system. We can sell you a new phone, and move you to the Cingular network. That would solve the problem.
Me: Would that require a restart of the contract period? What would be the cost?
Cingular: Yes, it would restart your contract period. It would be about $10 more a month, and you would get 200 less minutes.
Me: Why would I sign a new contract with a company that has violated their existing contract, AND pay more for less minutes? That would be stupid of me wouldn't it?
Cingular: Well, I guess. There really isn't anything else we can do...
Me: No, you need to fulfill the existing contract.
Cingular: We can't do that.
Me: Then you are in breach of contract. To continue to bill me for a service that you know you are not providing is fraud.
Cingular: Well, if you read your contract, we don't guarantee service in all areas.
Me: I'm not complaining about various dead zones. I am complaining about zones that previously had service, and no longer has them. I am complaining about voice mail being delivered days later, and out of order. I am complaining about sitting still, and having calls disconnect.
Cingular: What would you like us to do about that?
Me: I would like you to fulfill your contract.
Cingular: Well, we don't like to do this, but we could cancel your contract.
Me: Without any penalty to me?
Cingular: Yes.
Me: Ok. That would be acceptable.
"ReplayTV also requires a subscription and they reserve the right to change your software whenever you connect to their server."
I've had a Replay for 2 years now, haven't had any problems with them removing services or anything. Commercial skip still works, etc. It even has a network port. If I download the right software I can grab those shows. They even have a website where you can set your unit. (it takes 24 hours for the changes to take effect, though. It makes sense considering it only calls home once a day.)
With that said, though, I think the unit is going bye bye. It's not out of disatisfaction, though. Comcast has a DVR option now. I've had it for a couple of months and I like it. There are some downsides to it. I cannot hit it over the network. It doesn't have auto commercial skip. I think it has less capacity than the Replay, though it has enough I haven't noticed much. I liked Replay's interface better, it handles categorization etc. (I.e. My girlfriend had her own group and I had mine.) Sounds like a crummy unit, right? Nah. Thing is, I have digital cable. I couldn't get the Replay to work with the digital cable. (well... supposedly I can get an IR thingy for it, but as I say more here you'll understand why it's not of much importance to me.) So I cannot record HBO etc with the Replay. The Replay lets you watch TV and pause etc, but it's not as elegant as Comcast's DVR does it. It's slower to change channels etc. Even when I only had analog cable, I despised using the Replay this way. I think the Replay I have only has one tuner. The Comcast box I have now has two, and it's come in handy. I also like that the Comcast DVR doesn't eat up a network port. That's the main reason I'm seriously considering getting a second unit for the bedroom. I only wish those two units would talk to each other so that stuff I record in the bedroom could be watched in the living room. It doesn't auto skip commercials but fast fowarding is easy enough. To make a long story short, the Replay has merits above the Comcast DVR, but I'm happier with the Comcast box. Mainly, though, the difference is my preference for digital cable.
In any event, you have choices out there. I don't know if your cable company has a DVR. If you don't, the Replay is a fine unit. Honestly, I prefer the Replay over TiVo to begin with. I know a guy with a DVR on his satellite reciever. He's happy with it, though I'd highly recommend one with two tuners. That's bitten him a few times.
"Derp de derp."
Why so long? You want to know a little secret from one satisfied MythTV user to a potential user? Seperate your backend system from the front end you're going to hook up to your TV. It'll add more to the cost but you will appreciate it in the long run. I use a plain old AMD Athlon 1.4 GHZ system with 512MB of RAM and two Hauppauge WinTV PVR 250 cards on the backend and a little diskless book-sized system on the frontend using a Via EPIA M10000 motherboard and MiniMyth.
The advantage to going this way is that the backend can be very low-end (a PIII-500MHz or slower would be sufficient) since the MPEG2 encoding is done on the Hauppauge cards. The frontends are also pretty low end (mine is around 1GHz) but they have built in MPEG2 decoder hardware on the motherboard so they use very little CPU while playing back video.
If you run Debian unstable you can get pre-built packages from Matt Zimmerman's web site, so the hard part is getting the IVTV drivers working so you can capture video from the PVR 250 cards. It's well documented and they've stabilized a lot in the last 2 years. My setup has been running without any problems since March when I finally traced back some issue I was having with 0-byte size recordings to an IRQ sharing conflict. Once I disabled the USB and parallel ports I wasn't using and put each tuner on a separate IRQ in the BIOS it's been rock solid. Once you get the capture cards working, mythtv itself is simple to setup. apt-get install the packages, follow the setup prompts, and then run the mythtv setup program to configure your tuners, setup your guide data download preferences (North America uses the free Zap2It Labs Data Direct service that downloads listings in a nice XML format (labs.zap2it.com).
I've been using MythTV for two and a half years now and I honestly never get jealous of TiVo or ReplayTV users. If anything I pity them for being locked into a proprietary pay service with their video locked on a hard drive which forces you to jump through hoops to get at it.
Commercial Products and Services:
ReplayTV: TiVo's ancient nemesis, it also 'just works'. I can't say whether it is more user friendly than TiVo, but it is far more customer friendly.
Windows XP Media Center Edition: Yes, them. Choose from multiple manufacturers but expect to face Microsoft Corp's version of the 'personal' computing experience.
Hardware vendors are now pushing DVD/HD Recording devices quite a bit. RCA, Motorola and Panasonic have products available.
Service Providers like Comcast and DishTV are now providing time shifting hardware and tv-on-demand solutions. Check with your choice of cable or satellite service provider.
Hobbyist Solutions:
MythTV: The Open Source, Do-It-Yourself DVR. Expect to build your own machine and play around a bit before it works the way you want. (Linux)
Freevo: MythTV, but not. (Linux)
MediaPortal: Who ever said Open Source was limited to Linux software? (Windows)
Meedio: It was a community based freeware product (myHTPC) that morphed into a commercial product without warning. Still a reasonable alternative to Microsoft for PVR function on the Windows platform. (Windows)
eyeTV: This Mac product has me seriously considering picking up a Mini-Mac to use as a media center. (Apple)
SnapStream (Windows)
SageTV (Windows)
Chris-TV (Windows)
ShowShifter (Windows)
On a personal note, I purchased the ReplayTV when it was first released and am entirely satisfied with it. Plus, by purchasing early I have never had to pay a subscription fee for data that is freely available elsewhere. If there had been a subscription fee I would not have purchased it.
Dan