Gaiman and Whedon Discuss the Rise of the Geek

CABridges writes "In a lengthy Time Magazine interview, Neil Gaiman ("Sandman," "American Gods") and Joss Whedon ("Buffy the Vampire Slayer," "Firefly") talk about their audience. Gaiman: "Mostly they're people. They're us. That's what they look like." Whedon: "They're a lot more attractive than I am, actually, which kind of disturbs and upsets me." Both men, known for their cult-favorite creations, have movies debuting this Friday. For Gaiman it's MirrorMask, for Whedon it's Serenity."

Comments

Sounds almost race-ist

[VxJasonxV]

...talk about their audience. Gaiman: "Mostly they're people. They're us. That's what they look like."
So, the two interviewee's in the article are the only fans of each others' work?
What's going on here?

I don't think it's the rise of the geek

[noewun]

I just think that things which used to be the province of geeks -computers, teh interweb - are now in wide use. I knew that time was coming several years ago when I sat down on the subway next to two very well turned out SoHo women who were deep into a conversation about untangling SCSI chains. When your grandmother has a 3 GHz P4 and broadband, computers are no longer the province of geeks.

That said, Whedon has to be one of the most overrated writers, ever. IMO, YMMV, etc.

Re:I don't think it's the rise of the geek

[why-is-it]

Sure, but Kaylee & River are both hot!

Feh!

Kaylee and River are cute, but Inara is the hot one!

As a typical /.er, I doubt that any of those actresses would give me the time of day, much less go on a date with me...

Re:I don't think it's the rise of the geek

[Gulthek]

Great, pet peeve alert.

Anachronism eh? SO. Since you feel that in the Future we will all have equal access to all technology, how do you explain the fact that we are chatting to each other via a global information network while many thousands of people still live in subsistance communities?

Do you think that when phasers, lasers, or other -ers are invented; that they will be handed out to all who ask? Do you think that when terraforming dozens of planets, that each planet will receive state of the art machinery requiring expensive fuel and electricity? You don't think that there will be a place for livestock at all?

Where do you think hamburgers and the like come from? Do you think that food will be delivered via spaceship to entire planets? If so, where does the food come from in your idealized scifi universe?

Please, describe your all "futuristic and shit" universe. Explain how people living on the edge of civilization will have access to very expensive technology other than that required to maintain their lifestyle. I guess you believe that the Iraqi insurgents have helicopters, tanks, tactical nuclear weapons, submarines, etc. I guess that's why they are taking on our military directly instead of doing makeshift hit and run attacks, oh. Wait.

Does it not make more sense that people would use the scifi tech they need and can afford, and make do with the rest? I.e. they have a scifi space engine, but use guns. Their scifi engine does the job they need it to do, their guns do the job they need them to do.

So I guess I should get over to Mongolia and help out with the water well-based community IPO they are offering next month. Maybe get them to finally upgrade from horses and oxen to cars and tractors, because gas is so cheap and easily available to them; unlike grass. The grass that grows on the hills. That feeds the horses and oxen directly. Yeah. I guess that makes sense in your head.

its all about the money

[peter303]

Geeks are attractive when they have big wallet bulges. Now that a few internet stocks have revived, especially the Google monster, geeks are in fashion again.

Re:its all about the money

[__aanebg9627]

No, it's about a shift in power. Geek skills are a critical part of the modern information society. We geeks/nerds have created a new kind of social structure, in open source, something that competes with the business enterprise and the state. People with geek/nerd talents are essential for most modern businesses, just as a vibrant business community is essential for a healthy nation-state. This power shift trickles down into societal attitudes: kids don't tinker on cars, they mod their computers. Small talk at parties is about your computer gear, instead of cars. Our pursuits are adopted more and more by the world, our films and books sell - much to the bafflement and disdain of the guardians of old bourgouis culture. (Every read a NYT review of one of the Tolkien films?)

It's not about the money, it's the power that can get the status. Just as money could buy a noble title -- and status -- for the banker Rothschild in 1816, more and more, geeks can turn their tech knowledge into money and traditional measures of status.

Mmmmm...

[fragmentate]

Is that cute red-head in Serenity? Willow?

She was the only redeeming value in the Buffy show.

Honestly, I'm not impressed by their work. It's definitely geek material. It's like watching EverQuest, World of Warcraft, and EverQuest II on TV. A bunch of well endowed girls with doll-like figures capable of defeating creatures 10 times their size. They should go into game development.

Re:Mmmmm...

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

Is that cute red-head in Serenity?

Nah, there is a completely different cute redhead with precocious personality traits.

Honestly, I'm not impressed by their work.

I find most Whedon's work so campy that I just can't watch it. I usually leave the room, despite other geeks attempts to get me interested. One day, however, someone threw on the DVDs of the Firefly series and after seeing three episodes I was hooked. I went out and bought them a couple days later. I highly recommend giving Serenity/Firefly a try, it is one of the best sci-fi shows to come out in years.

Am I a geek?

[digitaldc]

"JW: But I also think there's a bit of misconception with that. Everybody who labels themselves a nerd isn't some giant person locked in a cubbyhole who's never seen the opposite sex. Especially with the way the Internet is now, I think that definition is getting a little more diffuse."

translation: Anyone geek can get laid with net pr0n.

Am I a geek? Let's see...
Pocket protector? NO
Bad hair/teeth/smell? NO
Own my own RAID? NO
Write apps for fun? NO
Collect Buffy and Transformer dolls? NO
Post on /.? YES

The Rise of the Geeks

[Dark Paladin]

lately, I've been wondering why this is. It seems that "geek hood" is actually approaching a phenomenon. When people ask me what I do for a living, I'll usually give them a grin and say "Oh, I'm a professional geek". To which I usually get the response:

"Oh? What kind?"

Not a look of disdain that those growing up before, say, the 1990's might have received. Part of this I think it because of the dot-com boom (and bust): people saw that geeks could become millionaires, and if there's anything that influences people to do something it's money.

But the other thing is how much technology affects our lives. Cell phones and the Internet are on everyone's minds - you can't go 10 minutes without one some days. Because of this, geeks are now something of mystical wizards, the people who bring these cool "toys" to the masses to play with, including their iPods, the current status symbol, which 5 years ago was purely a geek music toy.

And because of this, I think that society is slowly starting to see the benefits of intelligence. Where before "egg headed intellectuals" would have been scoffed, intelligent activities are starting to aquire some respect. Look at TV shows: the most popular ones weren't just mindless driven, they were shows like "Lost" and "Battlestar Gallactica" and yes, "Desperate Housewives" (which I haven't watched), shows which contain very complex relationships and huge shades of gray in character.

The most popular books: Harry Potter, a book about a geek (a kid who likes to go to school and is best friend with the school uber-geek - a geek girl no less). Manga is becoming popular - I went into a bookstore and saw two whole isles, with 14 - 20 year olds hanging around - and not just the ugly ones, but cheerleaders looking at what once was only "nerd" material talking about how cute so-and-so is.

This isn't to say that those who are smart or different are entering Utopia - look at the current "Intelligent Design" debates and issues with extreme religious people trying to convert government to their way of thinking (as a religious person, this behavior really irks me. There's a reason why the "Render under Ceaser speak was made, and it's still applies, folks), or corporations muddling science (global warming? Where? Have another Hummer!) -

But things are getting better. Saying "I'm a professional geek" makes me the guy at parties people want to talk to. They ask about security, or about games they're playing (amazing how many executives have a PS2 these days), or just computer talk about their iPods or whatever. Yeah, they don't think I can play basketball, but that's ok.

I don't have to - I'm a geek.

Of course, this is all just my opinion. I could be wrong.

Re:geek - the word has evolved...

[Hrolf]

Teenage nerd - no knowledge of new trends, can't show off fashionable boyfriend in high school lunchroom or at parties. Not interesting.

Adult nerd - useful college degree, probably good job, disposable income, can definitely show off fashionable jewelry received as gift. Much more interesting.

Re:geek - the word has evolved...

[fak3r]

Right, nowadays you meet people who like to talk about technology, but when I talk/think about my time in the "Computer Club" in High School back in the 80s, it was a different story. We *were* the folks learning about phreaking via a IBM PC in my friends parents bedroom, with the old Hayes modem, on some BBSs. I think it's just that it now touches peoples' lives so much deeper; from email to shopping on the web, it's just more mainstream and people can relate better.

I concur.

[Grendel Drago]

It is all about creative control. Someone with a real strong vision can make something uniquely cohesive and brilliant. Whether it's Straczynski's Babylon 5 or Frank Miller's Sin City, it's amazing what can be done when the grubby fingers of mediocrity are kept away from someone's bright ideas.

Of course, creative control doesn't guarantee quality. (See Ilene Chaiken's utter failure to even have consistend characterization on The L Word.) But a lack of it will pretty much guarantee mediocrity.

I want to come out of the theater saying "I have never, ever seen anything like that before." I did that after Sin City; I did that after the preview screening of Serenity that I saw.

Corpse Bride & Wallace & Gromit???

[stefanlasiewski]

How could any geek forget these two:

• Tim Burton's Corpse Bride, which returns us to Burton's macabre roots.
• Wallace and Gromit, The Curse of the Were-Rabbit

These are classic geek genres, and Wallace & Gromit is something I can watch with the kids!

Whedon's Writing Skills

[joejoedoghair]

As far as Whedon's writing skills are concerned. Best TV writer...possibly ever. There is no one else out there who has been able to successfully do the following 1. Write character arcs over SEVEN years that show true character growth. No one has ever done this-- with the possible exception of Joel Fleischman from Northen Exposure ALL TV character basically remain the same. Whedon changed that-- but if your're looking for characters that never mature...stick with the crap that's already out there. 2. Tackle controversial subjects without preaching..."Realistic" TV sermonizes...Whedon entertains and actually demonstrates the complexities of truly controversial subjects-- homosexuality, despair, feminism...etc. 3. Treat Death with dignity-- watch "The Body" from Season Five--- Six Feet Under could've taken some lessons from that episode. Real death was never trivialized on a Whedon show, the way crime shows and supposedly "avant-garde" shows on cable trivialize death. But then again for a nation hooked on narcissistic reality shows--- Whedon's writing skills may go unappreciated.

Re:geek - the word has evolved...

[TheRaven64]

Scott Adams, in The Dilbert Principle, wrote that engineers are lousy as potential dates, but good as potential husbands. He may have been on to something...

Re:This may be redundant, but. . .

[tsm_sf]

Gee, a movie based on a four year old television series that itself only lasted four to six episodes? Oh, that must be absolutely amazing.

Hi there! I have no knowledge of, or interest in, the subject at hand. This will not stop me from posting my random pre-coffee thoughts. Enjoy, /.!

(ps. not a troll)

Rise of the DVD

[Ben Newman]

I'm excited about both of the projects and I'm planning on going to a midnight showing Serenity tomorrow. The most interesting part of this though is the fundamental shift in the entertainment industry that both of these movies represent. "Movie" studios have been firmly taken over by their DVD divisions. There have been a lot of comments here asking why Firefly was given a movie deal after being seen as such a failure for Fox. The answer, it sold a boatload of DVDs, and Universal is counting less on a succesful theatrical release then they are on selling another boatload when it comes out on DVD. Plus, the markeing campaign for the movie acts as marketing for the existing DVD set, increasing sales there as well. Mirrormask, as someone else pointed out, was produced to be sort of a spiritual successor to the Dark Crystal and Labrynth, 2 movies that didn't have very successful theatrical releases but proved to have very long legs in the DVD sale market. I think these releases are really interesting becasue I think the studios are floating these out there as a test of a new business model, and if these movies spawn lucrative DVD releases, I think we're goign to see some major shifts in movie releases: a shortening of the window between theatrical and DVD releases, an increased emphasis on studio releases straight to the customer like home viewing of downloaded content (which might be great news for the BitTorrent guys if they can become the defacro transmission protocol) and eventually the death of the movie theater as we know it. These ideas of where the business is heading certainly aren't new, but these are the first releases I've seen that look like their number one goal is DVD sales and the theatrical release is secondary.

No, it's about the sex!

[xirusmom]

I am going to say this again: Geek sex is the best! Trust me!

PS: to any woman reading this - Don't even try to mess with my geek. Get your own!

Re:Just a Thought

[Ruprecht the Monkeyb]

You certainly shouldn't be modded down, because you make some valid points. Allow me to address them:

* The movie will have a built-in audience of a couple million, enough to start strong. Whether it has cross-over appeal is unknown, but then again, no one expected 'Star Wars' to do what it did. Once upon a time, early summer was where movies went to die because everyone was off on vacation.

* Fox's dumb decisions are legendary, but it's really one bad decision repeated over and over again. Fox has been trying to re-create the success of the X-Files, another niche show that had cross-over appeal and became mainstream enough to enter popular culture. Firefly did about as well as Harsh Realm, VR5, and any of the other 6-week and out shows tried on Friday nights.

* 'Serenity' currently stands at %63 on RottenTomatoes, which is not too shabby for a sci-fi flick. We'll see where it is once more of the mainstream press have reviewed it.

* For all that 'Firefly' got the shaft, 'Serenity' at least seems to be getting some loving from the studio. They moved it from late spring (where it would have gotten lost in the Episode III hype) to its current slot, which may not be ideal, but it's got much more of a chance to hold on for a few weeks and build an audience. Plus, at least around here, they've been advertising the hell out of it -- I saw a ton of commercials for it during football games over the weekend, and that's pretty prime advertising.

* Any more, the movie industry doesn't make its money during the summer run, it makes it on video sales. This is why 'Serenity' got the green light -- because the studio heads saw the hundreds of thousands of DVD sales of the series and said 'Hey, if that many people bought the DVDs of the show, they'll all go see it in the theatre at least once, *plus* they'll all buy the $25 DVD in six months.'