Revisiting Sly Cooper

1up is running a feature about the previous two Sly Cooper game titles, underappreciated classics for the PS2. They're examples of truly great platforming for this generation of consoles. From the article: "Sly's emphasis on plot and continuity is one of its greatest strengths, which may be a pleasant surprise for gamers weaned on old-school platformers whose story lines rarely strayed from such gripping territory as 'Bowser kidnapped the princess again' or 'Dr. Robotnik is probably up to no good with those Chaos Emeralds (again).' Unlike the unambitious premises of action games gone by, Sly's narrative feels like a crucial component of the series."

Comments

Not just Sly

[jclast]

The Jak and Daxter games tell a decent story and are fun along the way as well. Why are we rewarding that which ought to be standard in a game (decent story) anyway?

Re:Not just Sly

[c0d3h4x0r]

Why are we rewarding that which ought to be standard in a game (decent story) anyway?

Because, sadly, it is so rare.

Re:Not just Sly

[edwdig]

Good gameplay is essential, but why should I care how well the character controls if I don't care about what he's doing?

Would a complex relationship between Mario and the Princess make the game any better?

Does anyone play Street Fighter for the endings?

Would Contra be any better if the aliens went on rants about why they were trying to take over the world?

Would giving Little Mac a backstory make you more likely to want to beat Mike Tyson?

More often than not, complex stories just drag a game down. They force a game into a linear progression and usually just result in a lot of gameplay sacrifices to meet the demands of the story.

Re:Wrong era, wrong comparison

[Slow Smurf]

Yet Mario 64 can, and it resorted to a "Boswer kidnapped the princess" plot.

With the added bonus of cake!

Hah

[oman_]

I think the fact that they chose to put-down the plots of two of the most highly regarded platformers ever just shows that plot does not make the game. Having a decent plot is a nice feature but that's not what I look for in my games.

Last time I was doing ninja wall jumps around the levels in mario64 I wasn't thinking about character motivation or plot. I do however have several well written movies in the bookcase which don't get nearly the same amount of time on screen as my favorite games.

Different people have different tastes

[Moraelin]

Yes, for _you_ (and for a lot of other people), the plot and story doesn't matter. In fact, I know a couple of people who are outright opposed to having their time "wasted" with any kind of narrative.

But then for a helluva lot of us, it does matter. Me, I found Mario 64 (and Donkey Kong 64 and various other platformers) to be more boring than watching paint dry. I've had more fun in a RL dentist's chair than jumping around like an idiot for no good reason or purpose in those games.

For _me_ the story and plot are the _main_ attraction in a game. I couldn't care less about score or showing off my l33t reflexes. Why I play is to see what happens next, and it damn well be a good piece of story.

If I have to do some ninja wall jumps, damn right I'll want it to be a part of some story. I'll want some damn good reason why my character is doing that, and I'll want to know what's he/she/it trying to achieve, and why couldn't it be achieved otherwise. (E.g., why can't he take the stairs instead of jumping his way upwards.)

And btw, by "damn good reason", I don't mean "the generic non-descript princess was stolen by generic villain #3, now go save her". Why is my character trying to save the princess anyway? Did he know her? Was he her body-guard maybe? Was he hired by someone to rescue the princess? How did that happen, then? Why did they choose him for that task? E.g., I can understand why someone would hire a well known mercenary or bounty hunter for that, but if it's the palace's plumber, there damn better be a good explanation why's he hired to rescue anyone.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your favourite games are bad as such. But like any game, some people like them, some people don't. I'm just giving you a glimpse into the mind of someone whose tastes are the exact opposite.

Re:Different people have different tastes

[Moraelin]

"You try to find depth in something that shouldn't have any."

No offense, but that "shouldn't have any" is just your own judgment call, based on your own individual preferences, not some universal law of physics, nor God's commandment set in stone. If I like Genre A more than Genre B, honestly, who are you to tell me that a matter of personal taste is wrong, and that Genre A shouldn't even exist?

"Watch a movie. Read a book. These mediums WILL provide you with MUCH, MUCH more food for thought than a video game."

I do watch movies and read books too.

"Small question, would your ideal game be "press space button" - FMV - "press space button" - FMV ? Of course not. Or, I hope not."

The world isn't made only of extremes, you know. Between (A) that extreme you describe above, and (B) purely jumping around on colourful blocks with no story, Mario-style, there's a whole continuum of shades of grey. But if you need a point of reference in that continuum that I still don't consider silly, I can think of at least one game which was literally 75% cut-scenes and 25% actual game. I actually liked it.

"Background info : As a frenchman, I laugh at americans who fancy themselves as wine connoisseurs, and talk about "cheap ten-dollar bottles". We just drink the stuff, and a ten-euro bottle is something you bring when you're invited to a family dinner, ie, it's not shit. We don't find "fragrances of cherry", "hints of raspberry" in our wine. We look at the glass, the color is nice, it smells good, we drink. Here, the buffoons that could have been characterized in that wine taster movie about pinot noir (don't remember the name) are made fun of. Do you understand?"

Not sure even what your point is. I'm not an american, and I don't drink much alcohol, so I'm not going to feel insulted or anything.

If we're talking about americans, I'd tell you what I tell them too: don't get your education about other countries from movies. Just because some people act like pretentious snobs in a movie, doesn't mean a whole country is like that. I'm guessing the vast majority of americans too would laugh at anyone who takes that kind of connoisseur elitism too seriously. So maybe they're not that different from you, after all.

If we're still talking about games, and it's just a metaphor for that, I don't think anyone who's into story-driven games does it for any kind of elitism. We just like to watch a movie or be told a story, that's all. Just like you just drink the stuff, we just play the stuff. Just like you probably like some sorts of wines more than others, even without going into fancy elitism, e.g., might like sweet wine more than sour one or viceversa, so it is with games too. Some of us like kind A more than kind B. That's all.

Or maybe it just isn't more than some unrelated background info after all, and I'm just reading too much into it.

Sucker Punch is more than just Sly Cooper

[w0rf]

They had a game for the Nintendo 64 called Rocket: Robot on Wheels that was just a great platformer. It was a lot of fun, and very clever, and the physics engine was just amazing. I wonder if Sly would have been considered a "kiddie game" if it had been developed for the Cube. Rocket was underappreciated in such a manner as that.