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Best Buy vs. The Game Makers
An anonymous reader writes "CNN's excellent Game Over column brings word that Best Buy has begun selling used games in select locations as part of a test program. If successful, all of the store's 700 stores could begin doing so in the not-too-distant future. Not so happy about this are developers, including Epic's Mark Rein, who resurrects his 'no used game sales' argument, saying 'To have them resell the games, with developers having no participation, that's just wrong. That's just fleecing us.'"
The used game market is way overvalued, margins are huge. Maybe this will make things a bit more reasonable. And the developers have nothing to complain about, reselling something you bought is very clearly defined as fair use in every copyright law ever.
--The universe will not be altered by forum threads, even those which are very wry. --Tycho Brahe (Penny Arcade)
To have them resell the games, with developers having no participation, that's just wrong. That's just fleecing us.
You already made money on the sale the first time. Regardless of your personal feelings about the issue you have absolutely no rights to money made on subsequent sales. I'm sure your opinion would change drastically if you were charged extra, on top of the sale price, for a used car.
Granted, you probably aren't buying used cars but you get the idea.
What about selling used cars or selling houses? Should the original manufacturer/builder get a percentage of the sale? Of course not. Of course those License Agreements we accept might have some small print stuff in them... Over here in the UK GAME and Gamestation stores have been selling used console games for years. My understanding was that used PC Games were much more legally ambiguous/completely illegal which is why GAME doesn't sell them. However, the Gamestation in my city does which would be pretty good except their whole PC range is about 1/12 of their stock.
"Are they going to sell used copies of Microsoft Office and if not why not?," asked Rein. "Why is that Microsoft (Research) has no objections to you reselling a copy of 'Halo,' but if you try it with Office, they'll come down on you like a ton on bricks?"
That is one of the coolest things I've ever heard. And not really novel; why haven't I heard or thought of this argument before?
Though I'm not sure if it applies to this case. Is Best Buy selling used PC games also? The article is not clear.
My stupid web site
Great! Now I can choose between pay $10 off the price of a new game for a scratched CD, ripped or missing manual, and no box from EBGames, OR paying $10 off the price of a new game for a scratched CD, ripped or missing manual, and no box from Best Buy!
Pulp Audio Weekly - Geek News and Reviews
That's just fleecing us
And annual rehashes of pre-existing content at full retail price isn't fleecing the consumers? Oh dear. I suppose you'd rather we consider ourselves as not taking ownership of the CD/DVD when we buy it from the store? Would you rather we saw your game not as an item we purchase, but as an experience that one can indulge in for a nominal fee just like those found on darkened street corners? After all, once we're finished with your underwhelming offerings, we would be stuck with something we can't get rid of.
This comment was formatted for readability, but I forgot the line break tags
I know from experience at Gamestop, whenever I buy a used game, despite them having oodles of cases around, they'll never give you one. Even if that's the last one they have in stock, all I ever get is the DVD. I insisted on getting full cases when I bought DDR, seeing as how I was paying $5 under full retail on a no longer made product.
Seriously. This isn't like the NES or SNES days. Who trades in games with JUST a disc?
What happened to the case? Where did it go? There should at least be that. The PS2/Xbox cases should be the most generic freakin cases in the world.
I'll take a beat up case, that's fine, but I'm not paying $5 under retail just because you have a disc. That's what chipped systems are for. Anyone can do that, and go play reburnable ISO's all day long as they get scratched. If I'm buying THE actual game, I expect a case at the very least. New cases are 50 cents a piece (or cheaper in bulk) for chrissake.
Buying used cars is unethical as well. How are autoworkers expected to feed their families if you're out there buying cars that were manufactured years ago?
I propose a levy for every car sale, so that the rightful creators of automobiles get their just reward.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
Of course Mark Rein's comments are self-serving greed. But the importnat thing is that when the Big Boxes start selling used games, small local game stores are dead (if they arnt already).
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
"including Epic's Mark Rein, who resurrects his 'no used game sales' argument, saying 'To have them resell the games, with developers having no participation, that's just wrong. That's just fleecing us.'"
Uh huh. I can play this game, too: "By preventing the sale of used games and forcing customers to only be able to buy new games, Epic is fleecing everybody."
I'm growing concerned that a business with the expressed purpose of entertaining people is fussing over entitlements they think they have. It's bad enough that the RIAA and MPAA do it. "Those people with boom boxes are costing us money because other people who haven't paid for the music can ear it."
"Derp de derp."
Can you make a copy of a car, download a 'car crack', then sell the car while still retaining the full use of said car? No? Then stop comparing this with selling a used car. A slightly closer analogy would be buying Harry Potter, then scanning / photocopying it before reselling it. And even that's a poor comparison because it takes a lot of effort to scan a huge novel and the resulting copy is less convienent to use than the original.
That said, I dont think publishers should have any say in what happens to a copy of a brand new game that somone bought. Nor do they deserve any of the revenue generated by the resale. But if they think that profits are being seriously impacted by second hand sales, that's just going to make them move all the quicker to Steam type DRM. Where 'one custumer = one sale' and transferring ownership is nigh impossible.
It's not that far off. Look how gamers have eaten up HL2 and Steam in droves and are begging for more.
Although, it appears wacky, I'm glad others know what transhumanism is.
The only doubt I have of it is that the singularity may or may not happen in our lifetime and even then we may not have control of even if happens or not.
However, the singularity is inevitable if society continues on its present course. When technology can produce anything for the price of nothing then we start to see the affects of the problems of brick and mortar fighting the changes in the business methods. This will eventually lead to all items that we now still pay money for weather it be food, shelter, and entertainment. There will be a sector of society which will resist this to the bitter end, but as the parent says Transhumanism will render this a moot point. Although I don't know what that has to do with selling used games, but then again... The same principal applies when there is nothing that can be manufactures for free than what do you pay people for their ideas and time in creation of software entertainment or various other things that involve "intellectual property".
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
I'm cheap. I admit that flat out. I have no interest in pay $40+ for a game, any game no matter how good. I have no interest in paying $20 for a junk game.
Go ahead, charge what you want for the popular games when they come out. Lower the prices when sales drop off. I'm in no hurry, I'd rather have a new game (on a disk that isn't scratched), than a used one, but not at your prices. If I knew the game was going to come down I'd wait, and you would at least get something from me.
Now maybe you don't want my money. Fine with me, I'll buy books instead, a paperback is a lot less than a game anyway. (Though in fact I'd pay more for books than games, but I'm weird that way)
When there is no option to get your products at a price I'm willing to pay, don't be surprised when I don't buy. This is basic economics, as price goes up, demand goes down. Apply the rules as you wish.
While I am a game programmer, I think that the opinion that banning the sale of used games is foolhardy. Of course it will likey cost the game publishers, and in turn the developers, a non trivial amount of money. The game industry has a vested intrest in preventing this.
However, the sale of used games most directly impacts 2nd and 3rd tier titles. Or at least, it the effect is much reduced for first tier titles.
If a game is worth keeping, it will likely be held onto. Many gamers like to reply games that they liked. But of a game turns out to be a less then perfect play experience, why hold onto it?
Good games that are sold as used are not going to sit on a shelf in a store very long, but mediocre games will sit for quite some time, be sold back soon, and will have a large effect on the total raw sales of a game.
Its pretty much impossible to buy a used copy of Tetris for exactly this reason.
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