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Heap Protection Mechanism

An anonymous reader writes "There's an article by Jason Miller on innovation in Unix that talks about OpenBSD's new heap protection mechanism as a major boon for security. Sounds like OpenBSD is going to be the first to support this new security method."

38 of 365 comments (clear)

  1. Slowdown? by (1+-sqrt(5))*(2**-1) · · Score: 4, Informative
    Continues Theo,
    A number of other similar changes which are too dangerous for normal software or cause too much of a slowdown are available as malloc options as described in the manual page.
    Id est, they stopped before reaching a Java-like retardation.
    1. Re:Slowdown? by (1+-sqrt(5))*(2**-1) · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Trying programming in Java sometime outside of a website applet, kid, and maybe you will learn something.
      I'm quite willing to concede the argument that programmer time is dearer than processor time; but why has the the Real Time Specification for Java, for instance, only been able to achieve 100 microsecond interrupt response times, when 2.0 microsecond response times aren't unheard of in other domains?
    2. Re:Slowdown? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Ho hum.

      http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library /j-jtp09275.html

      Malloc is slow. Per studies, 20-30% of CPU time wasted on memory management.

      I haven't seen that level of retardation in JVM's since... oh... 1996?

      But yeah, keep thinking you can do it better. Whatever. In the meanwhile, the rest of the world moves on.

    3. Re:Slowdown? by ergo98 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Malloc is slow. Per studies, 20-30% of CPU time wasted on memory management.

      Interesting paper - thanks for the link.

      However I find the conclusions given a bit dubious. For instance the claim that allocations are "free" is somewhat dubious - garbage collecting languages put all of the work on the back-end, giving the illusion of a free front-end (whereas non-GC languages put the hard work on the front-end). Yet for every object you create on the heap that is more work the heap walker has to do each GC to detect orphaned objects - a non-trivial task. It then has to free all of those objects, and because of the "free" allocation it has to move all of the objects and rebase every object pointer in the application. It doesn't take a genius to realize that is a signficiant task in an application of a real-world size.

      I think the proof is in the empirical proof - how many high performance memory intensive Java applications are there?

    4. Re:Slowdown? by Retric · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Java's RTspec is not designed around those applications. In the Real time world a lot of people are still using ASM because in plenty of applications programmer time is much cheaper than CPU time. If your paying for 10,000,000 CPU's then and 6 programmers then paying for 50c CPU's vs. 1$ CPU's is worth a lot.

      I work with real time systems and 0.0001 seconds (100 microseconds) is plenty fast for most Human to Real time systems applications. Granted JAVA is not what you want for fine-tuning your Engines performance but it's plenty fast for most applications. What makes Java so useful is you get to avoid most of the really time consuming bugs. Compare a fully functional java based multithreaded HTTP server with the C / C++ equivalent and it's going to be 1/3rd as much code. And will operate at vary close to the same speeds. In other words it's designed around applications where programmer time is worth more than machine time. We already have C so Java was built around the 95% of applications that don't need inline ASM.

      I have killed BSD UNIX with buggy C networking code which is the only thing I have been unable to duplicate with good Java code. You can do bit twiddling in Java, but it's faster in C. You can have hundreds of threads doing their own thing in either but it's much easer to do that in Java than C/C++. The secret is to know enough about how Java works so that you avoid things like creating new threads that eat up a lot of time. Once you understand how things work you can use things like Thread Pooling that are extremely efficient. Instead of complaining that concatenating Strings takes so long try learning about what other tools are out there like StringBuffer.

      PS: A quick look at some fast Java code. (It is a bit dated but gives you some idea what I am talking about.)

    5. Re:Slowdown? by JohnQPublic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      PS: A quick look at some fast Java code. (It is a bit dated but gives you some idea what I am talking about.)

      Hmm ... that's a little archaic. The page complains about Java performance in JDK 1.1, and appears to be based on a site (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~jch/java/optimization.html ) that hasn't been updated since 1998.

    6. Re:Slowdown? by liloldme · · Score: 3, Interesting
      It doesn't take a genius to realize that is a signficiant task in an application of a real-world size.

      And anyone who's run a JVM knows about the price of this task -- yes GC takes time.

      However, as I understood the article, the author was making a point that the way most C programmers manage memory tends to make the task more time consuming than is necessary. Therefore relying on a known optimized implementation rather than reinventing the wheel every time may be preferred. After all, it is just the VM implementor that needs to understand how to optimize the memory management, not the application developers. So yes, where the time is spent is shifted but also the amount of total execution time spent on memory management can be reduced -- because the task is managed differently.

      As for the specific details of this paper, they're basically discussing how to determine which objects can be safely allocated from the stack, instead of heap, and therefore can be discarded without the usual book keeping required from a heap GC.

      how many high performance memory intensive Java applications are there

      Java is so widely used on the server side and middleware, it cannot be difficult to come up with examples -- Tomcat, J2EE app servers, etc. eBay for instance advertizes very clearly on their front page to be powered by Sun's Java technology. There are individual Java systems that manage millions of transactions daily, and there must be thousands of systems out there that do this every day with Java.

    7. Re:Slowdown? by eric76 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      About 15 years ago I started using a technique to improve performance when doing lots and lots of very short term mallocs.

      Essentially, I'd create a large ring buffer of malloced temporary buffers of some standard length. Any time a temporary buffer was needed, I'd grab the next one in the ring.

      Before the buffer was provided to the function asking for it, the length would be checked. If the requested length was longer than the current length, the buffer would be freed and one of at least the proper length would be allocated. (I normally allocated by buffers in byte multiples of some fixed constant, usually 32.)

      The idea was that by the time it was reused, what was already in the buffer was no longer needed. To achieve that, I'd estimate how many buffers might be needed in the worst case and then multiply that number by 10 for safety's sake.

      My primary use of this was when doing enormous numbers of allocations of memory for formatting purposes. The function doing the formatting would request a buffer large enough to hold whatever it would need, write the formatted data into the buffer, and then return a pointer to the buffer. The calling function would simply use the buffer and never have to worry about freeing it.

      The performance results were superb except in the very simplest cases where you allocated the buffers without ever using them.

      I've never known anyone else who used this kind of approach although I've showed it to a large number of people.

  2. new method? by iggymanz · · Score: 3, Informative

    other OS have had heap protection mechanisms, even one from Microsoft.

    1. Re:new method? by Intron · · Score: 3, Informative

      ISTR that MS tried doing immediate free and it broke some programs that depend on the memory still being sround after being freed, so they made it optional. Sounds like OpenBSD is playing hardball here.

      --
      Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
    2. Re:new method? by JohanV · · Score: 5, Informative

      You mean the Data Execute Protection from Microsoft? OpenBSD has had that for a long time already, only they named it w^x.

      This new feature from OpenBSD is the use of guard pages and the immediate freeing of memory. In essence this means that both bad programming and exploit attempts are much more likely to result in a core dump then some unidentifiable and non reproducible corruption or a working exploit. Many people consider that a good thing because it will result in bugs being found in userland applications that would have otherwise stayed unnoticed. So even if you don't use OpenBSD yourself this is helping your system becomming more secure and better. And if you are running OpenBSD there is o need to worry too much about the stability of this feature, it was actually enabled shortly after the 3.7 release and has been in every snapshot on the way to 3.8.

      And I have to agree with the author that the best thing is that we get all the goods without ever having to switch them on!

    3. Re:new method? by ArbitraryConstant · · Score: 4, Informative

      "You mean the Data Execute Protection from Microsoft? OpenBSD has had that for a long time already, only they named it w^x."

      They also didn't need the per-page execute bit to do it. You need a fairly new machine to get the protection, but my 486 firewall has it. They also have stack protection, which is helpful because even if the heap and stack aren't executable you can overwrite return addresses or pointers to functions, and have them point to existing code that can be tricked into doing something malicious.

      --
      I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
  3. Hope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Let's hope it's not as broken as Microsoft's attempt in SP2.

    But why did it take so long to implement?

    1. Re:Hope by Krach42 · · Score: 3, Informative

      There have existed functions in Windows and Linux for a long time that mark a page as executable. Even though Linux or Windows never really enforced this to be set when executing data, it was required by specification.

      Now that they're enforcing the specification, people complain that it broke.

      Hey, PearPC was written before they enforced the specification, and Sebastian Biallas had the brilliant notion to actually follow the spec, and mark things as executable. Thus, when SP2 came out, PearPC worked fine.

      Usually things break when moving to a newer version because some area of the spec wasn't very heavily stressed, and people writing code that just works (not as in, it works, but as in barely works,) thusly never really bothered shooting towards the spec. Then when the spec is enforced, they get all upiddy claiming that it breaks their app. Their app was broken to begin with, the previous implementations that you were relying on just didn't care.

      For instance, when libc 5 (I think, don't hawk me about versions, if you know the correct versions, then please correct me, but I'm working off of a poor memory of the version numbers) came out, it enforced against passing a NULL file pointer. Before hand some people had hacked their code such that if an open failed, and returned a NULL file pointer, they didn't care or print an error message. They just kept going, since it would just waste CPU cycles, as nothing would get outputted or read from the file. It was silently gracefully failing for them, and they used that.

      Then libc 5 comes out, and they break this silent graceful failure, and started reporting errors, or crashing when you passed them a NULL file pointer. People yelled and bitched, because they broke their app. But remember, THEIR APPS WERE BROKEN IN THE FIRST PLACE.

      That's why I don't like people griping about "blah blah upgrade broke my app". Unless you can state that your app was built to spec from the beginning, then that upgrade didn't break your app. It was broken to begin with. The new upgrade just showed you how it was broken.

      --

      I am unamerican, and proud of it!
  4. OpenBSD at the cutting edge on security by Sv-Manowar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Kudos to the OpenBSD folks for being at the cutting edge, in terms of implementations of these security features. Where they lead, surely others will follow and we'll be seeing this feature become commonplace. As their focus is security, its understandable that they lead more incentives in these areas than more mainstream Linux distributions.

    1. Re:OpenBSD at the cutting edge on security by failure-man · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Won't this crutch actually tempt people to write sloppy memory management because "the heap manager will catch it?"
       
      Doesn't seem so. The new malloc and mmap behavior will tend to cause buggy memory allocation code to segfault rather than allowing various sorts of stupiness or nastiness.

  5. My solution is slower, but 100% effective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    When my application needs a chunk of memory, it sends a specially crafted HTTPS request to my bank, debits the account, sends a fax to the local computer shop who then sends a tech over to install the DIMMs.

    When the application is finished with the memory, it sends a FAX to the local electronics recycling facility who sends out a tech to remove the DIMMs and melt them down into whatever.

    Using this method of heap memory allocation (I call it "ACAlloc" for "Anonymous Coward Alloc" has been 100% effective and I have NEVER had a heap overflow exploit in any of my code.

    Yes, it's slow, but I am secure.

    ...And I'm running the most up-to-date 80386 Linux 0.97 kernel. TDz.

  6. What's next? by Groo+Wanderer · · Score: 3, Funny

    Ok, we start out with 'protection', then we move to 'a heap' of protection, most assuredly to be followed by 'a whole heap' of protection. I can only see this spiral continuing until Bill Gates himself gets up on stage at CES in an Elvis suit promising 'a hunka- hunka- burnin protection'. *SHUDDER* Time to take a cold shower.

                  -Charlie

  7. Hm... old technique? by archeopterix · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Ok, the article is light on technical details, but it seems that they are using guard pages. Guard pages aren't exactly shiny new. Efence has been using them since a long long time.

    1. Re:Hm... old technique? by Chocolate+Teapot · · Score: 3, Funny
      Guard pages aren't exactly shiny new

      Shhh!! I was waiting until everyone started using them before hitting them with my patent ;)

      --
      Modest doubt is called the beacon of the wise. - William Shakespeare
  8. Re:cool by miffo.swe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "What do you mean? Windows Vista will be more secure than Unix. j/k"

    Just like...
    Windows 95 was more secure than Windows 3.1
    Windows 98 was more secure than Windows 95
    Windows NT was much more secure than Windows 98
    Windows 2000 was the mother of all security
    Windows XP, this time we got it right
    Windows XP SP2 this time we really really got it right, promise, cross my heart and hope to die
    Windows 2003, most secure server OS ever built!
    Windows VISTA, even better than the worlds best system ever built, this time ill put my mother up here on this 100 fot pole and if im wrong may she fall down into that pit of crocodiles!

    Until i have a real life experience of good Windows security i will tend to think back and remember all the former promises that have gone down the drain. Today you expect Microsoft to promise things that arent really true.

    --
    HTTP/1.1 400
  9. Hm... gotta reply to myself by archeopterix · · Score: 4, Informative

    Ok, I've posted hastily, thus creating a bit of an half-assed post. They use more techniques (random address allocation, immediate free-to-kernel), still not revolutionary, but indeed worth mentioning. My bad.

  10. Could this help Gnome? by MuMart · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Sounds like a heap that returns unused pages to the system like this would help the problem described by John Moser in the Gnome Memory Reduction Project here.

    Is it really true that the standard GNU/Linux heap implementation holds onto pages like this when it becomes fragmented? That sounds really primitive to me.

  11. In related news, GCC 4.1 stack protector by joib · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The upcoming GCC 4.1 release will include a stack protector. Basically it's a reimplementation of the old propolice patch.

    Hopefully mainstream distros that have been wary of propolice will start using this new feature. And perhaps glibc malloc will borrow a few tricks from this new openbsd malloc too.

    1. Re:In related news, GCC 4.1 stack protector by rehabdoll · · Score: 3, Informative

      There are patches available at http://www.trl.ibm.com/projects/security/ssp/ for 3.4.4 and 2.95.3

  12. Re:My Windows XP has heap protection! by jcupitt65 · · Score: 4, Informative
    The MS thing is just support for no-execute: the bit that says that this page is only code and not data and you shouldn't try to run anything in here. Everyone has supported this for ages.

    This is more. It looks like they are adding extra 'tripwire' pages to the heap, so if an attacker manages to write to part of the heap they shouldn't, there's a good chance they'll hit a tripwire and be detected.

  13. Wrong solution for solving heap problems. by master_p · · Score: 3, Interesting

    From the kerneltrap.org post:

    He explains that for over a decade efforts have been made to find and fix buffer overflows, and more recently bugs have been found in which software is reading before the start of a buffer, or beyond the end of the buffer.

    The solution that the kerneltrap.org refers to against buffer overflows is to:

    1. unmap memory as soon as it is freed, so as that to cause a SIGSEV when illegaly accessed.
    2. have some free 'guard' space between allocated blocks.

    My opinion is that #1 will slow software down, although it will make it indeed more secure. #2 will make it more difficult to exploit buffer overflows, since the space between two allocated heap blocks will be random (and thus the attacker may not know where to overwrite data).

    Unless I haven't understood well, these solutions will not offer any real solution to the buffer overflow problem. For example, stack-based exploits can still be used for attacks. The solution shown does not mention usage of the NX bit (which is i86 specific). It is a purely software solution that can be applied to all BSD-supported architectures.

    Since all the problems relating to buffers (overflow and underflow) that have costed billions of dollars to the IT industly is the result of using C, doesn't anyone think that it is time to stop using C? there are C-compatible languages that allow bit manipulation but don't allow buffer overflows; e.g. Cyclone.

    1. Re:Wrong solution for solving heap problems. by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 3, Interesting

      C is actually the most secure language currently, AFAICT. Languages with higher level intrinsics (C++, Java, Basic, Mono, Objective-C, etc) have a more complex implementation that may allow different exploit vectors; while languages with real-time interpretation or runtime code generation (Java or Mono with JIT) will wind up disabling things like strong memory protection policies (strict Data/Code separation -- code is data when generated at runtime) and may not in their own code create a backup buffer overflow protection.

      In the event of a screw-up on the part of the JIT or runtime programmer for any language, every program is instantly vulnerable, and all of this generic proactive security stuff is disabled because this "secure language" doesn't work in an "inherantly secure" environment, only a much weakened one. C's runtime is rather basic (and it's still huge), as is its language; people still screw that up once in a while, but rarely.

      While these "shiney new secure languages" may boast "immunity to buffer overflows," their runtimes are still designed around other concepts that may leave holes. Look at this memory allocator and think about a bug in the allocator that smashes up its own memory before it gets everything set up; because the new protections aren't yet set in place, it'd be totally vulnerable at that point (no practical exploit of course). A bug that forgets to add guard pages (generates 0 guard pages every time) might occur too in one update. Now add to that something like Java or Mono-- interpreted or not, you're running on a whole -platform- instead of just a runtime. C++ instruments loads of back-end object orientation.

      So in short, C is a very basic language that has easily quantifiable attack vectors, and thus the system can be targeted around these for security. Several such enhancements exist, see PaX, GrSecurity, W^X, security in heap allocators, SELinux, Exec Shield, ProPolice. Higher level languages like C++ implement back-end instrumentation that ramps up complexity and may open new, unprotected attack vectors that are harder to quantify. Very high end languages on their own platform, like Java and Mono, not only implement massive complexity, but rely on a back-end that may lose its security due to bugs. Platform languages may also be interpreted or runtime generated, in which case they may require certain protections like PaX' strict NX policy to vanish; in some cases these models (as an implementation flaw) also don't work well with strict mandatory access control policies under systems like SELinux.

      Face it. C is the best language all around for speed, security, portability, and maintainability. Assembly only brings excessive speed at the cost of all else; and higher level languages sacrifice both speed and real security (despite their handwaving claims of built-in security) at varying degrees for portability, speed of coding, and maintainability. Even script languages working inside a real tightly secured system would more easily fall victim to cross-site scripting, the injection of script into the interpretation line; under such a system, any similar attack is impossible in a C program.

      On a side note, I'd love to see a RAD for C. Think Visual Basic 6.0, but open source, using C/GTK+. Glade comes close. . . .

  14. Re:Sacrfice useability? Nice idea , won't work. by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually, for OpenBSD, it will work. And has.

    The reason is very simple: There will always be some applications where the security of the system is a paramount point. Where it does have to do with the application. OpenBSD caters directly to those people, and those applications.

    Now, you are right, this means OpenBSD is likely to never get as large a following as Linux or even FreeBSD, but they honestly don't care. They are making a system that fits their goals, and security is among the top goals.

    This actually allows security to spread: Once these changes are on a 'major' system, applications start to be ported to work with them, which means the changes can be ported to other systems.

    OpenBSD is a security testing ground. If it's features get in your way, you use a different system. This won't be the first time that advice will have been applicable.

    --
    'Sensible' is a curse word.
  15. Finally Locking the Door by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm surprised that modern heaps still put writable data segments adjacent to executable code segments. Self-modifying code is rare enough that all code should be in read-only (except by privileged processes, like the kernel which sets it up and tears it down) segments, except when a process has privilege to write to its own code segment. Then its code segment should be a data segment, with other security features applied (that are too expensive to apply to every code segment). Generally then, segments are either writeable or executable. Data segments could still get overwritten, which could put unsafe values in unexpected variables (like "write to that file" instead of this file). But at least those insecure operations are limited to the operations programmed into the code, not arbitrary new code inserted into executables by buffer overflows.

    After decades of these problems, and known techniques already applied in Computer Science, its surprising that we're only now seeing these techniques deployed in popular OS'es like OpenBSD. Hopefully the open nature of OpenBSD and other OSS OS'es will see them tested for winning strategies quickly, and widely adopted.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  16. Also Worth Mentioning by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 4, Informative

    This presentation (by Theo de Raadt) gives a good overview of the security features in OpenBSD (beyond what's already outlined on the OpenBSD security page). It covers W^X, random stack displacements, random canaries to detect stack smashing, random library base addresses, random addresses for mmap and malloc operations, guard pages, privilege revocation, and privilege separation. One thing it doesn't cover is systrace.

    --
    Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
  17. This is how Electric Fence works. by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Electric Fence explicitly allocates dead pages at the end (or configurably, the beginning) of buffers. It can also protect the memory immediately as it is freed. I think it was first published in 1987.

    It may be a legitimate invention - it is cited as prior art in an ATT patent. This is also the first known example of a prior Open Source publication causing a patent filer to cite. ATT also removed a claim from the patent that my work invalidated. Just search for "Perens" in the U.S. patent database to find the patent.

    We don't run it on production programs because of its overhead. To do this sort of protection exhaustively, it requires minimum two pages of the address space per allocation: one dead page between allocations and one page allocated as actual memory. This is a high overhead of page table entries, translation lookaside buffers, and completely destroys locality-of-reference in your application. Thus, expect slower programs and more disk-rattling as applications page heavily. If you are to allocate and release memory through mmap, you get a high system call overhead too, and probably a TLB flush with every allocation and free.

    Yes, it makes it more difficult to inject a virus. Removing page-execute permission does most of that at a much lower cost - it will prevent injection of executable code but not interpreter scripts.

    I don't think the BSD allocator will reveal more software bugs unless the programmers have not tested with Electric Fence.

    Bruce

    1. Re:This is how Electric Fence works. by stab · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think the BSD allocator will reveal more software bugs unless the programmers have not tested with Electric Fence.

      The OpenBSD allocator already has revealed a number of software bugs (in X11, in ports, they lurk everywhere). Some of the bugs found were years old. Thats the point of the testing process in the OpenBSD release cycle.

      I think you're missing the point behind the integration of these technologies into OpenBSD. The idea is that they are always on, with a performance hit that is acceptable that your day-to-day programs can be protected, and most crucially, used under them. Not sitting in a debug environment getting limited regressions and unit tests that the particular programmer felt like writing (and if I want that, I run it under Valgrind, which has a near-miraculous tendency to find lurking bugs).

      And considering them in isolation is also dangerous. When you combine the address randomization, W^X, heap protection, propolice canaries and local variable re-ordering, you're left with a system that has accepted a reasonable performance hit in return for a large amount of protection against badly written code. Sprinkle in regular audits, timely releases every 6 months to keep our users up-to-date on stable systems, and a 'grep culture' to hunt down related bugs in the source tree when a bug does strike.

      As others have pointed out, other "hero projects" have stuck bits and bobs into their respective distributions. But how many have had the discipline to follow through, maintain and integrate their patches, test the fallout and release a complete OS with thousands of third-party packages year after year... probably only Microsoft, but the first thing they do at the sign of incompatibility is to turn the protection off. Oh well :)

  18. VBLinux by Frankie70 · · Score: 4, Funny


      For real security, don't use C.


    I am rewriting Linux in Visual Basic 6.0.
    I am going to call the distro VBLinux.

  19. Re:OpenBSD does not matter by Ulrich+Hobelmann · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Who is "not giving back?"
    Feel free to download all of their source code before complaining.
    If you don't like it, don't use it, even though I'm sure you too benefited from some security fixes that originated with OpenBSD.

  20. Re:This is why I couldn't use OpenBSD exclusively. by Nimrangul · · Score: 4, Informative
    But they don't care, they're not trying to be FreeBSD or a Linux distribution, they're trying to be OpenBSD and a part of that is not letting people's perception of optimum performance get in the way of doing what is right by them.

    You gotta remember, the project doesn't do it for outsiders, what they do is for themselves. They want security and are willing to pay performance and ease of use to get it, it's like a mantra for them, never take the path of least resistance.

    If this looses like 5 or 10 percent of it's performance on my machines I won't mind, it's another layer of protection and I like having it and am fine with the cost, faster hardware isn't that expensive. If something I run crashes, I will report to the people that wrote it, telling them that I found a problem that was found by OpenBSD's malloc, maybe they'll even devote an old test box to checking for bugs on it.

    If OpenBSD was trying to be a Linux distribution then we'd not have most of the good stuff that makes OpenBSD unique.

    --
    I'm sick of following my dreams - I'm just going to ask them where they're going and hook up with them later.
  21. Re:Unnecessary when using languages that solve thi by Clover_Kicker · · Score: 3, Funny

    You're totally right, dude.

    Let me know when you release your Haskell version of Sendmail, and I'll switch over immediately.

  22. Re:Whatever happened to segmentation? by Sloppy · · Score: 5, Funny
    Holy crap, if my 1987 self could hear what I'm saying in 2005... "You senile old bastard! I'll fucking kill you for this!" would probably be his first reaction.

    2005 self would counter with, "Yeah, the pointers will be bigger than they used to be, but you progam in high-level languages now, so you don't ever worry about that. It's the compiler's problem."

    1987 Sloppy would say, "But I'm going go write a compiler!"

    2005 Sloppy would say, "You fuckwit, you never got anywhere on that project. You barely even started it. Too much time fucking around with graphics and genetics."

    1987 Sloppy would say, "But, but, it's not fair! Segmentation is an x86 thing. Everyone knows that in the future, we'll all be using 68k. 68k doesn't do segmentation."

    2005 Sloppy would sigh.

    1987 Sloppy would say, "Oh come on. There's no way people are still using x86 in the 21st century, or even in the 1990s. No fucking way."

    2005 Sloppy would just shrug. There's nothing to do in a situation like this. There's nothing you can say. They'll never believe you.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.