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How the Lisa Changed Everything

Sabah Arif writes "The Lisa, started in 1979 to provide an inexpensive business computer to Apple's lineup, enjoyed little success. With its advanced object oriented UI and powerful office suite, the computer was priced well above the means of most businesses. Despite its failure, the Lisa influenced most user interfaces, and introduced many features unheard of in earlier systems (like the Xerox Star or VisiOn). Read the story of the development and demise of the Apple Lisa at Low End Mac."

14 of 194 comments (clear)

  1. Re:I for one welcome... by erick99 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The Lisa was introduced for sale in 1983 for about $10,000. It sounds like development began in 1979.

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  2. You got to wonder by Stevyn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How would things be different today if Apple initially offered the Lisa at a substantially lower price just so people experienced the GUI? IBM and the clones were much cheaper, so businesses probably chose initial cost over an interface that could have lowered training costs and increased productivity. And if people were using Apple machines at work, then they would have bought an Apple for home later on.

    1. Re:You got to wonder by tpgp · · Score: 1, Interesting

      substantially lower price just so people experienced the GUI?

      I think you overestimate the importance of a GUI to businesses at the time.

      Many tasks could be accomplished far easier without a GUI - text and number processing comes to mind (the mainstays of business desktop work)

      GUIs have advanced tremendously since then - to the stage where a GUI/mouse combo does actually enhance productivity with word processing/spreadsheet applications - but there are still many areas where a GUI (particularly coupled with a mouse) will decrease productivity (think Point of Sale particularly)

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    2. Re:You got to wonder by Dogtanian · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You're aware that a large amount of Amiga software (primarily games and graphics-oriented software) bypassed the OS, and "hit the hardware" directly?

      I'm not sure that the Mac/Lisa would have been focussed on those types of apps (let's face it, 2-colour monochrome isn't going to compete with 4096-colour HAM), so perhaps the comparison isn't entirely valid.

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    3. Re:You got to wonder by default+luser · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As another example, I don't think the modern game hardware industry owes much to Silicon Graphics - their hardware was ahead of PC hardware for a long time, but at a price most people wouldn't pay. When the time was right, graphics hardware became widespread, but it was no thanks to SGI who were trying to maintain the old prices.

      Are you kidding me? The modern game hardware industry owes a lot to SGI.

      First, let's talk about SGI's direct effect on the industry:

      SGI designed the N64. It was basically all the best bits of a $10,000 Indy workstation, shrunk down and sold for $250. Sure, it was a little memory-deprived, but that was a result of the pricepoint. Its 3D prowess was unmatched by anything consumer-level until the Voodoo Graphics was released for the PC a year later (which still cost more, intro-ed at $300), and was unchallenged in the console arena until the Dreamcast.

      SGI's '$250 Indy' featured hardware support for mip-mapping, billinear filering, anti-aliasing...tons of features typically only seen on SGI workstations.

      Now, let's talk about the indirect effects SGI had on the industry.

      SGI developed OpenGL. This had the following indirect, but lasting effects:

      * 3dfx based their GLide API on a subset of OpenGL, removing some of the professional-only instructions, as well as the transform and lighting hardware support, in order to implement a cheap 3D pipeline. 3dfx was the most influential hardware company in the early consumer 3D industry.

      * OpenGL made Microsoft react and make Direct3D a solid development platform, and encouraged MS to innovate even when they surpassed OpenGL. The ability of OpenGL to use unofficial extensions kept Microsoft on their toes. SGI's industry clout was key in getting OpenGL support built into Windows 95b / 98.

      SGI lead the way in making 3D a commodity, but once 3D became a commodity they lost the reins.

      --

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      And occasionally whores for Karma.

  3. Jobs didn't get it. by Baldrson · · Score: 3, Interesting
    As I described here years ago:

    Gutting programmer effectiveness and routing new programmers into BASIC by a factor of at least 10 while maintaining, and even slightly improving the GUI is a great example of "not getting it". You can say OOP would become important in a few years and I can say the windowing GUI would become important in a few years with or without Jobs. But the revolution had already occured at PARC (and if you're focused on the mouse environment -- even a decade earlier at SRI which is where PARC, and indeed PLATO with its touch panel, got their inspiration -- I remember sitting in meetings at CERL/PLATO viewing the films of SRI's research in 1974 as part of PLATO's computer-based conferencing project).

    DOS applications were starting to pick up on it despite the horrid CGA they had to work with initially -- and it wasn't because Jobs did the Mac. The Windowing GUI was inevitable and obvious to people with money as well as most personal computer programmers, especially once Tesler had already popularized it with his 1981 Byte magazine article.

    Dynamic, late-binding programming environments that highly leverage the sparse nerd matrix out there -- like Smalltalk, Python, etc. -- are, however _still_ struggling to make it past the concrete barriers Jobs poured into the OO culture with the Mac.

    When Jobs passed up Smalltalk for Object Pascal, and then again, with Next, passed up Smalltalk for Objective C, he set a pattern that continues to this day when Sun passed up that sun-of-Smalltalk, Self and went with that son-of-Objective-C, Java.

    Gutting the superstructure of technology while maintaining appearances isn't leadership.

  4. Article is hostile : mc68000 was 32 bit! not 16! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Article is hostile : mc68000 was 32 bit proccessor because it used 32 bit registers, had 32 bit math, and address more than 16bit addressing in linear addressing and used address registers than held 32 bits.

    the DATA bus and code bus used 16 wires.... b ut it was a goddamned 32 bit chip and this fact used to piss off intel x86 people for many years.

    So much so that they try to rewrite history with articles like this crap that ignore that the chip was 32 bits.

    A 64 bit processor for example DOES NOT have 64 bit data bus lines typically to the actual motherboard ram, and certainly NEVER EVER offers all 64 bit of addressing. (possibly some offer 48 in this universe though).

    but does that mean a 64 bit chip is not a 64 bit? no!! Jsut as the 68K was a genuine 32bit chip and almost no effort was needed when a full 32 bit wired version was offerred for sale.

    The article is hostile to history of the mac and lisa.

    by the way i bought both the years both shipped.

  5. An addendum by Baldrson · · Score: 2, Interesting
    While Jobs had his failure of vision in not pursing a hardware stack machine similar to Moore's Tesler also should have pushed back on Jobs harder to get some form of Smalltalk onto the Lisa even with the Motorola chip. The reason is that there are optimization techniques involving type inferencing and dynamic code generation that had been researched and to some extent exploited at PARC, and have certainly become a mainstay of the JVM today. If the software engineering resources that were to be invested in programming an abortion like Object Pascal had been instead invested in the optimization technologies already researched it is likely the Motorola chip could have performed adequately and the software industry wouldn't have been set back more than decade.

    I don't mean to single Jobs out here since, of course, Gates is the guy who ultimately defected against civilization to become its richest man.

  6. LISA by hhawk · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The Lisa wasn't cheap unless you were comparing to some mainframe. We had one at Bell Labs when I was there. Did some graphics on it, which was easier than trying to do graphics with TROFF/PICS...

    but it was also always breaking needing service and it didn't get a lot of use..

    --
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  7. Comprehensive Lisa info at guidebookgallery.org by toby · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Marcin Wichary has compiled a great deal of Lisa information, from screenshots, ads, brochures and articles to posters and videos, at his site GUI Gallery Guidebook. Recent postings include 17 exclusive Lisa posters for download and enjoyment, and an interview with Dan Smith that reveals "The original trash can for Apple Lisa was supposed to have been an old, beat up alley trashcan, with the lid half open, flies buzzing around it and appropriate sounds as user put something inside."

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    you had me at #!
  8. Re:You are a Moron by ScrewMaster · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Actually, the original PC BIOS wasn't so much reverse-engineered, as it was simply duplicated. IBM published the full annotated assembler listing in the original IBM PC technical manual. I still have a copy, somewhere. And in any event, because the BIOS was accessed via software interrupts (unlike the Apple ][ machines, which required direct calls into the ROM) it was pretty painless to duplicate the functionality, and IBM for its part didn't seem to care one way or the other. That simply encouraged the entire PC clone market to burgeon and spread. Contrast this to Apple Computer, which was continually trying to shut down competitors (like Franklin, for example.) Apple ][ clones had endless compatibility issues with applications that were making ROM calls that would fail on non-Apple firmware. IBM (by using INT13 software-interrupts to access BIOS services) eliminated that problem, and so long as a clone BIOS correctly emulated the original functions the system would work.

    About a year after the formal release of the Mac, I called up Apple's service people looking for a replacement gate array chip for an Apple // disk controller board. They wouldn't sell me the part (it was for one of my customers, I finally found a computer store that had a couple left) and I was told that "we recommend you purchase a Mac." Apple lost market share all right, and it wasn't because of the Mac ... it was because they treated loyal, long-standing customers like myself as dirt. After that experience (and several others like it) I went out and bought a PC and never looked back.

    And the parent poster isn't too far off base in one respect. Apple's market share did drop, not so much because of the move from DOS3.3/ProDOS to the Mac, but because of the way Apple treated their existing base of Apple ][ and //e customers. I mean, even when the Mac came out there was still a huge base of installed Apple //e business customers and Apple pretty much just threw them away, fully expecting them to migrate to the Macintosh. Migrate they did, but to the IBM PC.

    Never forget one thing: Apple was the incumbent, with all the advantages that confers. Atari and Commodore together couldn't market themselves out of a cardboard box and both eventually fell by the wayside. I look back at Apple Computer as a company that was at the right place at the right time with everything in its favor, only to squander opportunity after opportunity, relegating itself to second place. And such a distant second as to be almost out of the running, when they could have owned the market. They do seem to be making some good moves lately: let's see if they can keep it up.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  9. Re:Mac changed everything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Jef Raskin's total contribution to the Macintosh project was "Hey, let's build an inexpensive computer that's easy to use." That's it. He had absolutely no technical input whatsoever, and no input at all once Jobs took over the project.

    People love to latch on to Raskin and call him the unsung hero, but the fact is that he totally abandoned the project when he didn't get to do everything his way.

  10. Re:The Mac's other salvation: square pixels by njh · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How does square pixels allow true WYSIWYG? The screen representation is still an approximation (unless you are printing on a B&W printer with 72DPI). One thing that we've learnt since is that tall pixels are better value, as the human eye needs greater horizontal resolution than vertical (c.v. cleartype, lcd mode in freetype, or whatever). I would rather have a 2:1 tall-pixel display than a /2:/2 once the resolution goes above 100dpi - better visual resolution for a given investment in pixels. Quickdraw even supported non-square pixels in the original firmware.

    (And IBM PCs had square pixels in some modes too in 1985)

  11. Does Patrick Naughton Have No Idea Too? by Baldrson · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Patrick Naughton wrote:

    ...When I left Sun to go to NeXT, I thought
    Objective-C was the coolest thing since sliced bread, and I hated C++.
    So, naturally when I stayed to start the (eventually) Java project, Obj-C
    had a big influence. James Gosling, being much older than I was, he had
    lots of experience with SmallTalk and Simula68, which we also borrowed
    from liberally.


    The other influence, was that we had lots of friends working at NeXT at
    the time, whose faith in the black cube was flagging. Bruce Martin was
    working on the NeXTStep 486 port, Peter King, Mike Demoney, and John
    Seamons were working on the mysterious (and never shipped) NRW (NeXT RISC
    Workstation, 88110???). They all joined us in late '92 - early '93 after
    we had written the first version of Oak. I'm pretty sure that Java's
    'interface' is a direct rip-off of Obj-C's 'protocol' which was largely
    designed by these ex-NeXT'ers... Many of those strange primitive wrapper
    classes, like Integer and Number came from Lee Boynton, one of the early
    NeXT Obj-C class library guys who hated 'int' and 'float' types.


    Another interesting side-note, (so as not to break any rules on my first
    [and last]-ever posting to comp.sys.newton), John Seamons, (who happened
    to be Andy Bechtolsheim's roommate at Stanford and largely reponsible for
    the first ever port of Unix to the SUN-0) once did a port of Oak (Java)
    to the Newton. We were in the midst of trying to do a deal with 3DO to
    run as their OS/API, and we didn't have any 3DO dev systems on hand, so
    John took apart an Apple Newton 100 and wired it up to a bunch of logic
    analyzers, reverse engineered the interfaces and actually got some of the
    original Star7 demo to run on this machine. After the 3DO deal tubed, I
    think most of the code was lost to history... last I heard, John was out
    in Aspen working for wnj, so you never know.


    Sigh... we sure knew how to have fun in those days...


    -Patrick


    -------------
    Patrick Naughton
    President and CTO
    Starwave Corporation
    http://www.starwave.com/people/naughton