Slashdot Mirror
Linux Instant Messengers
mrAshley writes "This article talks specifically about the antiquated state of the even the best Linux instant messenging software, and generally about the need for software developers to be mindful of younger people, as their social attitudes towards software are going to be much more influential in than any moral or financial consideration.
Simply put - People are communal. Don't make a person who wants to use Linux have to leave behind a method or style of communication."
I think gaim does a pretty good job, and I've actually converted lots of friends to gaim with no negative after taste. And most love the tabbed interface for multiple conversations in one window. It's nice also to have multiple protocols all available in the one application. My parents now chat with multiple people, in multiple environments, and they're not even aware that's happening. No more splaining that they have to start the yahoo messenger if they want to talk with Uncle Duane.
There's also the huge value add of no advertising.
But, I seem never to be able to upgrade gaim, at least not easily. I always have to do an rpm upgrade with the Force option because of "conflicts" with other gaim packages. And the last couple of new releases of gaim won't even install with "Force".
So, for my money, gaim comes close. Depending on the user, I've found many are okay using gaim.
As for the "state of the union" in Windows, with the recently announced merger of the Yahoo and MSN protocols (as in, freely communicate with each other), it does appear Microsoft is making its move to get closer to their tipping point to dominate the messaging market. They have some interesting features, none that I can't live without, but probably a good draw for the "hip" young crowd. I find most of the described features annoying, but then, I come from the old BSD/Sun "talk" days. Heck I guess I even come from the old Unix "write" days (get out your history books).
Let Microsoft add the fluff. But, a cautionary note, if history serves, what Microsoft is doing has the petina of old tricks. Should they manage to climb to the top and snuff out other IM services the way they've snuffed out other competitors I predict they once again will begin charging for what once was free. Or at least start charging for features that used to be free but have become addictive to their target demographic. (Hey, little girl/boy, want some streaming video with your chat?)
No thanks. I'll take the simplicity of gaim to accomplish the given task; relaying a text 'conversation'.
If you go and bloat it up, for the love of God, be sure to leave an options dialog to disable all the crud so I don't have to be beaten with it.
Gaim is just trying to follow the look of the rest of the linux desktop experience.. antiquated and generally pretty ugly!
Of course it's trying to look like the rest of the linux desktop, it uses the same widget set! Sure, you can use one of the High Contrast themes or Simple or somesuch, and Gaim is going to look ugly that way because that's what you've chosen it to look like.
Completely different widget sets (MSN Messenger, WMP, Office, usual win32) on the screen at the same time? That is ugly.
Guy asked me for a quarter for a cup of coffee. So I bit him.
After RTFA, I think the author is missing the point of instant messaging. Strangely enough, it's right there in the name:
Instant: adj.
1. Occurring at once; immediate:
Messaging: tr,
1. To send a message to.
It's not instant video chatting, instant flash advertisements, instant voice communications. They are messages. At this Gaim and Kopete work very well indeed. I don't even use the standard MSN, Yahoo, and AIM clients on my WinXP box. It's Gaim and it does everything at once. As far as aesthetics go, Gaim is about as lovely as anything else. Kopete looks as great as you can make KDE look (which is pretty damn good.) In fact, I occasionally turn on the color cycling plugin on Kopete and get lots of positive comments and folks wish they could do that with their clients (just move to Linux!).
The only spot where I think the author is possibly on-topic is file transfers. More often than not though, this is a function of network firewalls and port forwarding. If there was a mode where Gaim/Kopete could self discover an outside IP address and use UPnP port requests, then I'm sure it'd work phenomenally in our household.
I'm a mac user and I love Adium X and would love to see it get ported to Linux. It's such an easy program to customize, very nice interface, and absolutely free. Just seems like a great fit for Linux in my opinion.
Finance tutorials and more! Understandfinance
Linux users are doing just fine, and the last thing we need is for Linux to be more like Windows.
Excuse me, but that's just plain ignorance. I know of a hell lot of people who really hate windows and would love to switch over to Linux, but it's the little things like these that hold them back. They try to use all kind of thingies over MSN with me, including webcam conversations, but it simply doesn't work for them. Then they're like "oh, yeah, Linux, right?".... and it's things like that that hold them back. Sure, it's not the only thing, but it's the picture as a whole that we draw about the user experience under Linux... sure, it's nice, fonts are prettier (in the opinions of many), but that just doesn't do it...
- Leon Mergen
http://www.solatis.com
Am I the only one who understands where this article is going?
Linux is a wonderful, efficient, relatively secure operating system, but damned, the UI is fugly on almost every distro. Even the "perdy" distros have UI deficiencies.
Why does this matter? It works, it's functional, right?
Short Answer... Yes... Long Answer... No.
In the ideal Linux world, everyone has discard MS Windows, and they are strictly using open source software... There is no concern over quality of software, no concern over usability, and no concern over closed protocols, software, and formats.
That's not the case. Most of the world uses Windows, and that's just the way it is. Windows does offer something that Linux doesn't offer in that sense... a relatively consistent (*sigh*) user interface, a relatively attractive (*sigh*) visual style, and relatively easy-to-manage (*sigh*) suite of software.
Point is, how do you tell an inexperienced Linux user to install a different visual style?
How do you tell an inexperienced Linux user to install new hardware (think something without pre-compiled Linux compatible drivers)?
How do you tell an inexperienced Linux user to do most every day things?
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this comment, but I have used Windows, OS X, and Linux. Plain and simple Linux is not the easiest to learn from a new user standpoint.
Sure, I'll hear the argument that once you learn, you'll be fine. Explain that to the old persons in my family who don't want to learn. Explain that to the young persons in my family who don't understand why they should learn Linux.
I am not trying to say the Linux needs to copy every Windows / OS X feature or functionality, in fact I'm quite opposed to this. Linux has a powerful kernel that's being underutilized by a copycat interface.
Why do the creative minds of the Linux community insist on duplicating Windows. Linux != Windows. Create a new interface. Move into a different direction that what we know now. Here's a novel idea. Forge a new, easier, more efficient way to use a computer.
Of course, the underlying principle is still this... GAIM is not MSN. GAIM is merely trying to duplicate how classic MSN/AOL/Y! looked and felt. It's been done. Move on.
I'm not saying that GAIM needs to recreate the annoying Screen Shake or whatever it's called. I'm not saying GAIM needs to recreate MSN/AIM/Y!/ICQ/Google Talk/etc. Do something original with it. Give me a compelling reason to use it. Give me an application that's not bloated (*coTRILLIANugh*). Give me something more intuitive (*coADIUMugh*) but unique (*coDOESN'TEXISTugh*).
The Linux community as a whole is stuck in this antiquated mindset. Let's move on. It's time to change. Linux doesn't need to be just for elite, make it available and usable (keyword) to the masses.
But, what do I know?
Deja Vu
n. 1. The sensation that you've read this very article before.
Not sure what version of Kopete he's using, but anything from the past year or so is pretty as can be and incredibly useable, and getting moreso with each release. It has very nice support for MSN avatars, fully customisable notifications, meta-contacts, tabbed chat... and they fixed up all of the bugs that made it hard to use quite a while ago. I agree that the file transfers and webcam capabilities aren't there, but that's not the UI, those are extras.
Umm, whenever I used a windows installer, it works, period. I've NEVER encountered a windows installer that didn't work. Ever. The program might suck, but it installs and novices knows predictably WHERE it installed as well (and without using "whereis" commands).
I am a Linux user...but I don't think anyone can argue that installing packages that are not in your sources list is easier than downloading and doubleclicking on a "install.exe" file in windows. But I DO enjoy your point about shell scripts that can do it all for you (which is really what windows installers are). It would make alot of sense if linux programs could simply be downloaded to desktop, doubleclicked on, ask for your sudo password, then go the the install motions AUTOMATICALLY detecting your disto, configuration, etc...and possibly asking if you'd like a shortcut installed to your app menu, if you want to make it the default program for a particular set of filetypes and so on...just like windows installers do. Linux can learn alot from windows when it comes to installation ease, and obviously in turn, windows can learn from linux when it concerns security (and making sure users really know what they are installing).
Until Linux packages are as easy to install as install.exe's, Linux loses big time in that respect. There's no debate there. I argue that it is THIS problem alone that really holds linux back from the big time, not instant messengers. If instant messengers were easy to install (and worked without odd hacks and forum digging), they would improve exponentially because their audience would have increased expontially as well to justify the extra development.
Linux is headed in the right direction...but the persistant folly of installation and upgrading woes is heavy plow holding it back.
I think, therefore I doh.
Not everyone who uses IM tools uses IM 'tard-speech. Too many do, though. I work at a helpdesk, and we use IM to escalate issues to coordinators and whatnot. It's easy to log in conversation form, it's lightweight (being able to do things quickly and easily is a big plus, and since we use "Slowtus Notes", email doesn't fit the bill)... it works really well for us, filling in the gap between phones (in which you steal all of someone's attention for a short time) and email (which can get filed and forgotten way too easy).
The coordinators do ask us "did u get the tkt?" and "can u review?", though. And I thought people only talked like that in school.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
I think "officially laid to rest" is stronger than the actual situation. The Oct. 7 announcement states that there will be no more gaim-vv releases but that they are working on merging with gaim and code will (not might, but will) be added to gaim.
IMO, that's how it should have been done from the outset.
Veering back toward the the response of so many posters, both here and in the comments for TFA, gaim is pretty good at the basics (better than either AOL's or Yahoo's official clients) and IMO isn't ugly, either. Kopete looks nicer/more Mac-like, but some of its functionality is goofy. I love KDE but use gaim for my IM b/c I just can't stand Kopete.
The trouble is, the basics aren't enough. The main point of TFA, really, is "Where's the voice and webcam support?" This is a major stumbling block in open-source IM, and it doesn't affect just young people. I'm in my early forties and Linux has been my exclusive desktop OS for over five years. My wife is in her thirties and would also be a Linux user except for one thing: Yahoo Messenger, and specifically the voice/video features, is her number one app (ahead of even email) for keeping in touch with her family and friends overseas. Any platform that doesn't support that doesn't work for her, and that's why we have a Win2K box (Yahoo Messenger on Mac doesn't support voice, either, or I'd buy her a Mac).
It's all about the applications for a lot of people, and IM is the only area that immediately comes to mind where there is really a huge gap between capabilities of open-source clients versus proprietary ones. People can point to gaim-vv or to gyach-e (Eeeeeeuuuuuuw! Have you ever looked at the source code for that?! I feel the nausea coming on again just from thinking about it. I and one of my staff members tried for three days to get it to build, without success; eventually I ran a binary RPM through alien), but both of those projects are really in their infancy WRT both functionality and reliability. I've tried both and eventually concluded that I was better off just living without those features until they are more stable (they have cute little tricks like making a 2.5 GHz P4 with a gig or RAM go to 100% CPU utilization and stay there when receiving video. This happened multiple times and my only out was to kill X; charming).
Need a good office suite? OSS has you covered. Browser? Take your pick. The only proprietary browser that's as good as the OSS offerings is Opera, and it also runs on Linux. Email? Same situation? Groupware? Maybe a little rough around the edges, but we're basically there. Security tools? The list is long but distinguished. SQL databases? PostgresQL and MySQL are two of the most popular in the world, take your pick. Development tools? There are probably more OSS tools than proprietary ones available these days, and whether you prefer vi, (X)emacs, or a full-blown IDE, OSS has something for you. This list could go on and on, but I think you all get the point.
However, turn to IM, and OSS is years behind the times. The author of TFA had it right. I know none of us really like hearing that there's something OSS doesn't do as well as proprietary software, and we especially don't like hearing that proprietary is kicking our asses in some area, but sometimes it's true. This is one of those times.
Having a world-class IM, with voice, video, etc., is crucial for OSS at this juncture. I hope people who are working on major OSS IM clients like gaim or Kopete are reading this thread and also read TFA and realize how important this is.
And yes, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. If what is needed is to pay gaim developers to get this done in a reasonable time frame, I will donate 50 bucks, which is more than I've spent on software in years. I hope everyone else who wants advanced voice and video features in OSS IM will also be willing to pony up whatever they can afford to get the job done.