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Linux Instant Messengers
mrAshley writes "This article talks specifically about the antiquated state of the even the best Linux instant messenging software, and generally about the need for software developers to be mindful of younger people, as their social attitudes towards software are going to be much more influential in than any moral or financial consideration.
Simply put - People are communal. Don't make a person who wants to use Linux have to leave behind a method or style of communication."
Younger people ?
As far as I'm concerned, there are a lot of people out there using instant messengers... my friends, my mom, my dad, people from work, people at college... it's not just teens using instant messengers, it's a huge community using them.
And yes, I personally miss features like displaying which song you're currently listening too, and heck, since the latest MSN version I can't even see their "mood" anymore...
And yer yer, I could just ask them, I know... it's just that my friends seem to have a hell lot of fun using MSN, and I'm just happy I can finally show people my MSN icon... I seem to be missing a lot of the fun :)
- Leon Mergen
http://www.solatis.com
...is why we use GAIM to communicate in our company. (Well, except the garbage file transfers.) We have a Jabber server that supports encryption and use that for all of our in-house messaging. This is important as we are a geographically distributed team, we need a secure, reliable chat mechanism to collaborate quickly and easily on code. We don't want or need all the garbage that comes with of IMs, and the fact we can link to other services in GAIM makes it our one stop shopping solution for IMs when we *do* need to talk to someone with a more mainsteam IM.
:) :( smiles. But for a corporate solution, GAIM + Jabber makes a lot of sense and I would hate to see it become the playground that MSN has become.
Of course, we are professional developers who don't need to send flash animations, pictures or even more than the basic
Sig under construction since 1998.
And file transfers with non-gaim clients ?
The Raven
Sounds like whoever packages gaim for your distro is a moron. gaim's developers can't be faulted because someone else is screwing up the packaging.
I've never had any problem with upgrades or installations of gaim on any of my systems (Gentoo, and I used to use RedHat until 7.3), including the Windows port.
gaim blows away AOL's standard AIM client in terms of UI cleanliness, ease of use, and features. How the hell is it that the AIM protocol supports aliases for screen names (i.e. foobar43289342 displays as "John Smith") but only third-party clients actually support it? (i.e. aliases ARE saved on AOL's server with your buddy lists, but AOL's AIM client is about the only client out there that DOESN'T show them).
gaim also lets me strip out all color/fontsize changes from people's IMs. Some people have REALLY annoying color defaults.
gaim starts far faster than AIM.
There is one thing (and only one) that AIM handles better than gAIM, and that's when people use nonstandard character sets in away messages. gAIM bitches about a buggy client, AIM will display the away message, even though some characters will look like junk. I only see these away messages once or twice a month though.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Not sure whom he's exhorting here... open-source developers? Microsoft? Linux is the OS by the people and for the people, so if the people don't add the features that he thinks they want to their apps, then maybe they don't want them as bad as he thinks.
:-)
But tagging along on MS's coattails isn't going to get us anywhere. What is needed is for Windows people to use Jabber; then we can really have interoperability and end the IM wars. And if it doesn't have enough features to make that compelling, then they need to be added. And the Jabber server used to be interoperable with other IM's (including MSN I think), not sure if it still is but that was a really good feature. Hopefully its interoperability includes file transfer. Voice IMO already has a couple of good implentations (asterisk for sure, and then there are skype and some others), and if people think that IM and voice belong together then the IM client could include a SIP client as well. Next they will be wanting video. CUCMe anybody? I remember it working already in 1994, perhaps earlier...why don't we leapfrog for once and get video well-integrated into IM as well?
As for me, I don't really "get" IM - don't like to be interrupted all the time. Email works just fine, thank you.
True hardcore Linux users just use talk/ntalk/ytalk, of course.
I think its ironic that this article made Slashdot at the particular time. Gaim's summer of code had projects ranging from Yahoo Whiteboard support, to better file transfers, to group editing of text files/images/music. Also support for audio VoIP. There is also a webcam plugin in the works for gaim as well [though I'm uncertain for which protocol(s) they are aiming at. It is for exactly these features that gaim hasn't released a new version in much longer than their normal development cycle. In perhaps a few weeks most of these complaints [as well as many other advantages like dbus and fixed perl interfaces] will be irrelevant.
A friend in MSN showed me a blue furry creature that looks like a pokèmon, and it was waving "hi", smiling and everything. I instantly clicked on it, and added to my custom MSN smileys. Whenever I say "hi" to my female MSN friends using this custom smiley, they all say "awwww how cute! ^_^ where did you get that?" or something. (love hint: yes fellow slashdotters, girls like all that cute stuff)
This custom smiley is some kind of social phenomena. Custom emoticons begin appear computer, and the next day they're everywhere because they can be easily transferred between computers.
For years i've been waiting for F/OSS messengers (for Windows, i mean) to have this custom emoticon feature. And I'm still waiting...
... In my experience has usualy been what the people you want to talk to use. All the features in the world won't get you users unless the people you want to talk to are on the network. As I find mysef forced to use more and more networks (I started with AIM but now use IRC,YAHOO and now jabber) Gaim means I don't need 8 chatt clients on my desktop.
If it's dead, you killed it.
Gaim's tabbed interface IS great. There are many things about Gaim thats great, but it's interface is too much like AIM and there are a couple of annoyances such as: 1. You can't see your own picture in the chat window. You have to go through two dialogues before you can preview/change it! 2. Avartars/Icons belong on the left of the contact list - not the right where someone's long MSN name forces it off view with a scrollbar.
I know I should be making these comments on the Gaim bug/feedback forums, but I know for a fact many of these requests get ignored. I actually think the fonts look nice in Gaim, despite what someone else said on here during the previous IM topic.
It just may take a while to convince developers to implement the 'annoying' MSN features so that the rest of the users out there can come on board.
No, Gaim does not support skins. If you really want to know the good reasons for this design decision, you could check out the developers words on the topic.
I have come to hate Gaim very much over time... Whenever I try to update my MSN nickname, well... it doesn't. Whenever I try to connect to my company's internal Jabber network, well... it doesn't. I spent quite a while with both Gaim (for MSN) and PSI (for Jabber) running at the same time (kinda defeats the purpose of a multi-network IM client), until I found that Kopete does both almost perfectly (I can finally change my MSN nick, and connect on the Jabber network). For some reason, I can receive files from other but I can't send my own though.
Anyway, I am still very happy with Kopete, and I don't care for the small problems, because I believe that small problems on a Linux IM are better than a flashy MSN on Windows. However, I agree with the article that many people won't do the switch simply because the IM client doesn't flash.
After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
- The Tao of Programming
Not as a matter of course, no. I do use e-mail quite frequently as it also helps me communicate with many of my clients. People at work full-time just don't have the time to sit down at their PC and monitor a real-time messenger client. In effect, it becomes merely background noise.
The problem being, so many younger people are latching onto IM software and slowly creeping into the working world. In my job (sales) I can't be tied down to my computer. I talk to people all day long and oft times ignore my PC for hours on end. The first time I saw a nudge come across my screen from an impatient friend I disabled the functionality and set myself to always busy (with a message of "I'm at work, I'm probably away from my PC or busy with a client. I'll get back to you when I get a chance.")
The thing that worrys me about young people, IMs, and professional atmospheres is the IM-speek they develop. If I'm communicating with a client, I can't very well ask them if they r going 2 come 2 see me 2nite; but it's become such a natural rythm to these people (many of whom learn how to speek IM before they learn proper English) that it's going to take over their communications style. Be it 14 or 41, when I see somebody typing in IM it gives me the impression of an uneducated child.
To the security aspect, yes, I aboslutely agree. IMs are very dangerous tools when in the hands of the uneducated. With a plethora of trojans/viruses floating around that automatically spread to one's entire contact list it wouldn't take long to bring an entire office network to its knees. For what? The convenience of not having to walk across the room? Not dialing an extension? Not waiting 5-10 minutes for an e-mail response?
BD Phone Home!
Shameless plug. Like you weren't expecting it.
Good point; but I don't think Linux has a problem with looks. MSN messenger looks as ugly as sin, has a cluttered interface and annoying adverts lodged in the client. Kopete, on the other hand, is clean, simple, and looks a hell of a lot nicer.
Strange, I just converted from gaim to trillian, as Trillian does my IRC, yahoo, and AIM messaging without any issues.
Issues I had with Gaim (win32):
Font support was crap. I blame this on GTK/Win32, making it near impossible to change the program's default fonts.
When docking/undocking the laptop, occasionally gaim would flip out and suck 99% cpu for 10seconds->10 minutes (longest I ever let it run), the time varied.
I disliked the interface for the accounts, I much prefer Trillian's 'connection bar' at the bottom to give me a quick view of what I'm on. Not one 'sign on' button, and then needing to find the 'auto-login' option in the system tray to actually do what I want..
Trillian seems to handle metacontacts slightly better, in my mind. I can't really put my finger on why though, it just feels nicer.
I dunno. I use both, still.. but prefer trillian.
I would agree with you that most companies as standard will block any kind of IM access, at least for the "regular" staff. Those Cxx people might have access, I don't think they are the target market for MSNs latest flashy stuff.
Its been tried before where I've worked, both using internal only Jabber type service and AIM (ugh) service. In both cases they had to be shut down because of abuse. People messaging people inappropriately, people sending things they shouldn't send, and people messaging people that they shouldn't. The internal wasn't so bad because at least it was kept in house. The AIM however reflected VERY badly on the company, and we aren't willing to take that risk.
To be fair though, the few times I've had to use it in a corporate setting, the most a client general messaged me was;
Client: Hey, did you get that email I sent? See what you think and then email me back.
Me: OK
So I don't think we are missing out!
My employer started using IM pretty regularly at the beginning of the year. They bought everyone webcams, and we use Yahoo Messenger to videoconference during meetings (some participants are geographically remote.) So whenever I have a meeting, I need to boot up the windows laptop (Gaim on Linux doesn't support Yahoo videoconferencing yet.) They seem unconcerned about the idea of sending unencrypted trade secrets out into the wild woolly internet, but such is life. Maybe Yahoo doesn't data mine conversations.
I IM with personal accounts periodically, but I generally don't log on during the workday (email's distracting enough) and I often forget to log in at home.
Gaim, while works great and has many features, is horribly ugly on Windows XP, with the new appearance also, but specially so with the classic Windows 2000 visual style. This ugliness makes me feel bad when using it, feeling that I don't get when I use Skype and/or Google Talk, both with [IMO] great interfaces (but these two programs are completely useless outside their small niches). Trillian and Miranda interfazes do not feel completely right either, but they do not feel as bad as Gaim. MSN interfaze is so-so also, but again better than Gaim, except for the really annoying advertisements it shows.
While Gaim running on Gnome 2.12 looks considerably better than in Windows, I still think that the look and feel of all its windows and option dialogs is way suboptimal. I am not an interfaze designer, and I have not stopped to think what exactly makes me feel that an interfaze is bad or good, so I do not know how to improve Gaim's one specifically.
For the shake of contrast, Firefox would be an example that does not have this problem, as the interfaze is delightful both in Windows XP and in Gnome.
Both rock. Pine on screen 0, centericq on screen 1, epic4 on screen 2.
To make it even better, I have a screen feature called "caption" enabled in screenrc. That makes a status bar at the bottom of the screen session. Use the speaker for the sound device, and whalla, notifications at the bottom of the screen. Its pretty nice.
-- 4 8 15 16 23 42
Ok Mr. Linux Zealot. This is the type of information that is harmful to Linux. Guess what a Lot of people may need to install an application that is not on the distribution. Just because the distribution doesn't have it it doesn't mean that you chosen the wrong Linux distribution. You may have chosen that distribution because it is the only one that proply supports your new hardware, but it may not have came with one Application. Also there are a lot of applications out there and some of them may not be that popular, but they do the job you want and only 100 people in the world use it. Linux needs to be designed to install applications a lot easer. I for one prefer the Static Binaries and organized like Mac OS X method. Which is very rare.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Bitlbee is much cooler than centericq. It communicates IM using IRC as a gateway.
screen+irssi --> bitlbee
Absolutely. I almost never use it outside of work. But it's very convenient at work, and every office I've been in has used some form of IM extensively. It's a hell of a lot easier to throw URLs and commands back and forth in IM than in email (let alone by voice).
Examples:
Developer1: Do you know the syntax off the top of your head to make an existing column autoincrement in mysql?
Developer2: alter table modify column type autoincrement
or
Developer: What's next most important for CLIENT?
Project Manager: Finish up the issue you're working on first, then take a look at this: http://bugtracker-bugurl/?bugid
or:
Secretary: Reminder to all: company meeting is starting in 1 minute in the conference room
It also has the advantage of letting you keep in touch with peers who work elsewhere--I have friends who I know are familiar with certain commands or whatever, and for some packages it's a lot quicker for me to ask them (and vice-versa) "what's the flag to do X" than to dig through the docs.
Also, how are the young people of today going to react when they find they can't use a tool they are kinda of hooked on daily in the real work world?
Badly, as they should if the company they work for doesn't allow them a valuable communications tool.
rage, rage against the dying of the light