Four Millennia Old Noodles Found In China

mollten writes "According to BBC News, the world's oldest noodles have been found at the Lajia site in China. Carbon Dating has found the remains to be over 4000 years old." From the article: "Prior to the discovery of noodles at Lajia, the earliest written record of noodles is traced to a book written during the East Han Dynasty sometime between AD 25 and 220, although it remained a subject of debate whether the Chinese, the Italians, or the Arabs invented it first ... Our discovery indicates that noodles were first produced in China."

Comments

Lajia U?

[yagu]

They should keep digging. I'm betting they've stumbled across an old Lajia University dormitory and discovered students' supplies of Ramen. (Well at least that's what we lived on in college.)

Re:Lajia U?

[rob_squared]

Nah, couldn't have come from a university, everyone knows that there would have been *roaches around to clean the place of food.

*Not the kind you smoke.

Re:Lajia U?

[slideroll]

MSG, the ultimate preservative.

Re:Lajia U?

[ozmanjusri]

It's the same thing. If you ever feel like giving them up forever, try some of the recipes here http://mattfischer.com/ramen/

Re:Lajia U?

[WillWare]

But the world's oldest beanbag chair and the world's oldest lava lamp ought to have been safe.

Was it Ramen?

[notthe9]

That stuff lasts forever. Bet it was.

Probably still good.

Re:Was it Ramen?

[StarDrifter]

The article says they resemble La-Mian noodles. And according to Wikipedia, the name Ramen was probably derived from "la mian". So maybe not exactly ramen, but it could be the ancestor of the modern noodle.

Re:Was it Ramen?

[CameraChimera]

La Mian literally translates as pulled noodles. They're a specialty of northwestern China and incredible delicious, but to really appreciate them you have to see them made.

The noodle chef starts with a well worked ball of dough, rolls it into a rope like thing, takes one end in each hand, pulls it as wide as his armspan while swinging it up and down, doubles it over between his hands and repeats until it's been stretched thin enough. I realize my description doesn't do it justice, but to see it is to be amazed. It's usually served in a bowl of beef broth with meat, cilantro and onions, but you can get 'em fried too. There's nothing like handmade noodles.

Pictures:1 2 3(this one's not your ordinary la mian) 4 (the first frame gives a good feel for the process)

Translation of text found with noodles

[Anonymous Coward]

1. heat 1 cup boiling water
2. peel back lid on cup and pour water to line
3. cover for 3 minutes

Re:Translation of text found with noodles

[Anonymous Coward]

" 1. heat 1 cup boiling water
2. peel back lid on cup and pour water to line
3. cover for 3 minutes"

You forgot some:
4. ???
5. GUNPOWDER!

mmm

[Kickboy12]

Wonder what the expiration date was.

Arrr matey!

[geeber]

Yet more proof. He Lives!

Re:Arrr matey!

[Associate]

Behold, the Second Helping.

This is the proof we needed!

[origamy]

This is irrefutable archeologycal proof of the existance of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

This may have an impact on the holy books, but I'm sure the clergy is already handling the matter.

Re:This is the proof we needed!

[FSM]

Did anyone doubt I exist?
FSM

The inventions of noodles was in question?

[king-manic]

I thought it was a concrete fact that the chinese invented it and it migrated west. The italians haven't had them for all that long.

Re:The inventions of noodles was in question?

[pancake_lover]

It's not a concrete fact. There is a commonly told story that Marco Polo brought pasta back to Italy, but there is quite a bit of evidence that pasta existed in Italy before MP. There is also evidence of pasta in Roman and Greek times. Further evidence shows pasta existed in the middle east. And we know that pasta existed in China (from TFA).

One theory is that pasta was invented in several different regions independently. Considering the ingredients it seems plausible. Ground grain, water, maybe some eggs. Not exactly rocket science.

Re:The inventions of noodles was in question?

[MMaestro]

You can chalk this one up to the fact that almost all modern history is written from a Western point of view (read: European and occasionally Middle Eastern outlook).

Who invented gunpowder first? The Chinese (although primarily used for bombs and fireworks.)
Who developed rule by divine right first? The Chinese (see: Chinese Mandate of Heaven.)
Who developed (or adopted) the idea of education as a high priority for all its citizens? The Chinese (see: Confucius.)

Who 'discovered' North and South America first? The 'Indians'/'Native Americans', Inca, Mayans, and others.

Re:The inventions of noodles was in question?

[typical]

You can chalk this one up to the fact that almost all modern history is written from a Western point of view (read: European and occasionally Middle Eastern outlook).

You mean most *Western* history is written from a Western point of view. Go to China and I suspect that you'll find somewhat different history texts.

At the shop around the corner

[Wizzmer]

I can find that at the shop around the corner. It even includes a coupon to go and see where they're building the Egyptian pyramids...

One more proof....

[dracken]

....that we were all created by his noodly appendage .

If They're Looking For Old Food...

[Ginnungagap42]

Hell they should have dug in the back of my refrigerator; I've got noodles WAY older than that back there...

Shortly after...

[UltimaL337Star]

The world's oldest flavor sauce and oil packets were found.

That sound you hear...

[winkydink]

is 58 million Italians crying out in anguish

Non sequitur

[Elf-friend]

Our discovery indicates that noodles were first produced in China

Although I would tend to agree with that theory, this is badly worded, to the verge of being a logical fallacy. It would be better to say that the discovery "rules out the Italians and Arabs," since those cultures post-date these noodles (assuming the accuracy of the dating, despite radiocarbon's vulnerability to contamination). The discovery does not prove that some earlier culture didn't have noodles first. We can only say we have no evidence for an earlier existence.

Re:Non sequitur

[Yurka]

Three scientists are walking across countryside when they see a cow.

"It is a Bos taurus," - says the biologist.
"It is black," - says the physicist.
"It is black on not less than one side," - says the mathematician.

Re:Non sequitur

[the phantom]

...despite radiocarbon's vulnerability to contamination...

In most cases, contamination of C14 samples can come from one of two places: either newer material is introduced or older carbon is absorbed from the matrix. If newer material was introduced (either by the archeologists, or by natural processes), then the date will come out more recent, thus the noodles are older than the dates suggest. On the other hand, older material is generally introduced from the sediment matrix itself, and that is fairly easy to control for. Why does everyone have such problems with radiocarbon dating? The method has been shown to work, and has been correlated with other methods, such as dendrochronology and archeomag dating. Relax.

Re:Four Millenia -- Four Millenium

[Guppy06]

They found four noodles.

Did the noodles have MSG?

[saturndude]

Strange, I read the article, and I wanted to read it again twenty minutes later.

Condiments?

[ElectricOkra]

What they didn't say is that they also found 30 unopened packets of Duck Sauce...

This story...

[mary_will_grow]

...is as old as those noodles!

ha!!

Freshness?

[ZenPirate]

I bet they're not as tasty as four millenia old twinkies would be.

No, it's not

[JoeBuck]

Creationists (especially the "young earth" kind that compute the age of the earth by counting up the "begats" in the Bible) claim that carbon dating is inaccurate, because they need it to be inaccurate. They also think, wrongly, that if they can kill carbon dating, they can kill all evidence that the world is older than they say it is.

Also, carbon dating isn't used for anything as old as dinosaur remains, so sorry, tossing out carbon dating won't let you put a younger date on dinosaur fossils.

Re:No, it's not

[Hannah E. Davis]

IANAEBGOA (I am not an evolutionary biologist, geologist or archeologist), but...

For Carbon dating, "the current maximum radiocarbon age limit lies in the range between 58,000 and 62,000 years" (from wikipedia). So... pretty recent, in the grand scheme of things.

Wikipedia also has an article on radiometric dating in general which outlines some types of radiometric dating that work for much older samples.

Also, when we're dealing with dinosaur remains, even IF we're off by hundreds or even thousands of years, it's not going to affect our data very much. We're dealing with such a large time scale that determining roughly when a creature died is often good enough -- usually we just want to know when some species existed compared to some other species, and species are usually pretty good about lasting for at least a few thousand years.

In any case, if we determine that something is... say... roughly 60-65 million years old, that huge error range doesn't change the fact that the evidence blatantly contradicts Young Earth theory ;)

Re:No, it's not (OT)

[DarkProphet]

... and its a funny thing about the 'begats'... each generation (with a couple exceptions) has a somewhat shorter life expectancy, starting at 900-some odd years and gradually declining...

Creationists can't swallow evolution, but 1000 year old men sounds plausable?

By any sane measure (heh, ironic) using the 'begats', the world is only about 15-20 generations older than it was when christ was born, which would make it much YOUNGER than the creationists believe. I say a branch of science aughtta lay that one out on the table ;-)

Then there is the little problem that even with super high-resolution spy satellites, we still haven't found Eden or that big flaming sword that guards its entrance... heh.

And the number 1 least logical thing about this post? I am a protestant christian ;-)

Re: necro-what??

[chooks]

Okay, how do they date dinosaur remains,

That certainly takes necrophilia to a new low...

What would be interesting...

[jd]

They (believe) they have the list of ingredients for an ancient cocktail, they're pretty sure they've got the list for ancient beers, wines and meads across the globe, they've managed to identify the ingredients for breads found inside the stomachs of Iron Age people found in peat bogs, and now they've got the recipe for ancient noodles.

I'm sure it's done to some degree, but it would seem to me that there exists an opportunity for archaeologists to tempt people into the field by taking reproductions of these ancient foods to schools. If you want to make archaeology interesting to kids, you need to show them more of an end result than a dry, rather obscure research paper, some lumps of stone and a trowel. Make ancient history something real to them, something they can see, something they can actually relate to, and you're more likely to get them interested in it.

Although the noodles had to be saved for science

[Julian Morrison]

...some eggs found nearby were considered a delicacy.

Re:OLD STORY!!!!! FUCKING SLASHDOT IDOTS!

[ZeroExistenZ]

Contrary to popular belief, "slashdot idiots" rarely or never "are fucking".