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Minor Computer Flaw Frees State Prisoners

Posted by Zonk on from the prisoners-develope-interest-in-coding dept.

Ruvim writes "A Michigan State audit shows a software glitch let some prisoners get out early. From the article: 'The audit report shows errors in the release dates of 23 prisoners between October 2003 and March 2005. Some were let out early, while others were let out late... A flaw in computer programming caused State jails to release 8 prisoners anywhere from 39-161 days early, prisoners who were doing time for everything from embezzlement and drugs to bad check writing.'"

24 of 268 comments (clear)

  1. Gracious Me! by geomon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A whole 39 days early? Shit! They ought to hunt that bastard down and horsewhip them.

    I guess I don't see the 'crisis' in this other than these people were low-level, non-violent offenders. If a software glitch had let a Ted Bundy out for another killing spree, I would probably be more concerned.

    Fact is, we have WAAAAAY too many people in jail as it is. If we were to only charge and incarcerate those who pose a safety risk to the rest of society then you could probably monitor the entire population in half as many facilities with 1/3 of the correctional officers we have today.

    The US incarcerates people largely to punish them for stuff they do to themselves. If someone is strung out on meth or heroin, they are only a problem to me if they steal something to support their habit. Considering the fact that theft is already a crime, I can't see how locking up people who are casual users and functioning addicts helps society at all.

    These prison systems are getting too complex, too expensive, and are locking too many people away for "their own good".

    Rep. Rick Jones: " 8 people is too many. I understand the department found another 15, that's too many, even 1 is too many."

    Fuck that. Notice he shed no tears for the few that were held too long? I'm glad some of them got out early. The only sad thing in this story is that somebody got held longer than they should have.

    --
    "Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
    1. Re:Gracious Me! by Seumas · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The US incarcerates people largely to punish them for stuff they do to themselves. If someone is strung out on meth or heroin, they are only a problem to me if they steal something to support their habit. Considering the fact that theft is already a crime, I can't see how locking up people who are casual users and functioning addicts helps society at all.

      These prison systems are getting too complex, too expensive, and are locking too many people away for "their own good".

      It's essentially the Catholic Justice System. You're locked away not so much because of offenses you commit that harm other people, but for offenses that upset god and baby jesus and mother mary and all that jazz. How else do you explain laws intended to punish 18 year olds having sex with same-sex 15 year olds with 17 years in prison, but punish 18 year olds having sex with female 15 year olds with 15 months in prison? It's all about morality and just because something is considered "immoral" by many doesn't make it harmful to anyone.

    2. Re:Gracious Me! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I think the other side of the coin, letting prisoners out late is muchh more of an issue... that's essentially a human rights violation. I won't even get in to the Constitution.

      Reminds me of some 3rd world prison systems.

    3. Re:Gracious Me! by geomon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's essentially the Catholic Justice System.

      I think the Baptists would take exception at your excluding them from this party. They like controlling people too.

      You're locked away not so much because of offenses you commit that harm other people, but for offenses that upset god and baby jesus and mother mary and all that jazz.

      And it is only getting worse. Every year some dumbass politician screws the whole world up with just six simple words: "There ought to be a law!"

      How else do you explain laws intended to punish 18 year olds having sex with same-sex 15 year olds with 17 years in prison, but punish 18 year olds having sex with female 15 year olds with 15 months in prison?

      You can't. Neither can you rationalize incarcerating a person who does drugs, keeps their job, pays their taxes, and doesn't commit any other criminal offense. They *try* to rationalize it by claiming that "they need treatment" as though the criminal justice system is any substitute for medical therapy.

      It's all about morality and just because something is considered "immoral" by many doesn't make it harmful to anyone.

      Aye. That about sums it up.

      --
      "Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
    4. Re:Gracious Me! by LaughingCoder · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Fact is, we have WAAAAAY too many people in jail as it is

      That reminds me of a funny headline in the NYTimes. Paraphrased it said:

      Jails overflowing despite record low crime rates!"

      I doubled over laughing. The Times brainiacs actually didn't understand how the jails could have so many people in them when crime was down so much. Obviously, they deduced, this proved that the Bush administration was locking up innocent people. In reality they were actually too stupid (or blinded by their biases) to realize that crime was down BECAUSE the jails were full. Cause and affect. Go figure.

      --
      The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
    5. Re:Gracious Me! by Ironsides · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Fact is, we have WAAAAAY too many people in jail as it is. If we were to only charge and incarcerate those who pose a safety risk to the rest of society then you could probably monitor the entire population in half as many facilities with 1/3 of the correctional officers we have today.

      Unfortunately, some people who are not dangerous are not detered by anything short of prison. Even after some prison time, some will still repeat the offense. Look up Maricopa County's Tent City Jail.

      --
      Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
    6. Re:Gracious Me! by geomon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In reality they were actually too stupid (or blinded by their biases) to realize that crime was down BECAUSE the jails were full. Cause and affect. Go figure.

      Yes, crime is down for several categories of the penal code. But if you keep adding categories, then the jails will never see a decrease in prison population.

      There are too many offenses that require jail time.

      --
      "Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
    7. Re:Gracious Me! by Jesus_666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There' one flaw in that argument: If $DRUG was legal, people wouldn't need to give their money to some shady dealer who in turn gives his money to a drug syndicate. The FDA would make sure that there are certain standards it has to meet and the legal system would make sure that the huge corporations owning the market (if $DRUG === "marijuana" that would most probably be the tobacco companies) would stay mostly clean. Shady people would make less money because they couldn't compete with the mass production that the big corporations would do - and the prices associated with it. Especially if production and/or sale are coupled to strong regulation.

      Yes, most drugs (including alcohol and tobacco) are detrimental to one's time/revenue ratio, which is a reason to legislate against them. But "if people buy this stuff the money goes to bad people" is not, because the money only goes to bad people because no one else can sell the stuff.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    8. Re:Gracious Me! by The+Spoonman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If they were growing their own drugs you would sort of have a point. But their meth/crack/weed money goes to some fairly nasty people (encouragement and power to them), who don't do drug stuff exclusively.

      Ah, so you're one of those "smoking pot leads to twin towers being blown up" theorists? Always good to get your opinions on drugs from mass-marketing media.

      And if it became accepted to do crack, and more people did it, less cool stuff would be done in the real world, because more people would have fun doing crack instead.

      I'm not sure I follow. You're saying if we can smoke crack absolutely no one would do anything else? I'd have to disagree with you there because I wouldn't smoke it. And, yes, I'm one of those evil potheads who funds terrorism. I did try to grow my own for moral reasons, but was too stoned all the time to get it right. Did I need to put sarcasm tags in there, or did you get it on your own?

      So, stfu.

      Well, you've brought out the "you disagree with me, so I've ceased listening" argument. Good for you! Way to make a point! Woot!

      Just because everyone and their sister smokes pot in the US doesn't mean it's a good thing.

      It also don't make it anything close to a bad thing.

      I'm not a believer in morality as an absolute, aka religious stuff, but if you put it into (beneficial|detractive) for (me|some group|society|the human race), I'd say drugs are on the detractive side.

      Well, congrats, you managed to eek out an opinion. A completely wrong opinion, but an opinion nonetheless. The only reason you believe drugs are on the detractive side of society is because you've failed to do any real research on the issue. Yes, drugs can be devastating to SOME individuals, but not everyone who picks up a crack pipe will end up turning tricks in an alley for their next fix. You take away the drugs completely, they'll find some other way to destroy their lives. You need to fight the root issue, not the symptoms.

      Maybe not for the individual crackhead (probably though), but the laws are (ideally, some crap exists) there to guide society onto a route that is beneficial for society, not dopeheads.

      Well, I'm glad that you're not one of those all-knowing religious moralists who believes that they know the path society should head and wants to implement all kinds of laws that lead it in their direction. No, you're an all-knowing NON-religious moralist who believes that they know the path society should head and wants to implement all kinds of laws that lead it in your direction.

      --
      Which is more painful? Going to work or gouging your eye out with a spoon? Find out!
      http://www.workorspoon.com
    9. Re:Gracious Me! by Chrononium · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wow. That statement wasn't laced with intolerance. Naw. I mean, heck, you could even be a Chinese army official carrying out the extermination of Tibetans because well ... their system is religious and therefore silly. Why would anyone want religion when you can offer progress?

      Law is an external deposit of morality. Your idea of deciding if something is immoral is testing to see if it hurts someone. You want law to minimize suffering. You think suffering is a Bad thing (absolute moral qualifier). There are a lot of people who think morality is different. You not only look down upon their beliefs, but also think that your way is better. That your version of morality is better. Sounds like you're the same type of person as those other people ... you care passionately about how to determine good from bad. Law is where society as a whole comes together and lays down the morality of the majority because nearly all functioning human beings care deeply about morality.

      To speak more specifically on the idea of incarcerating adults (18 year olds) who have sex with minors (less than 18 years old), you could always consider the utilitarian argument. For the most part, 18 year olds have a chance at economic freedom, the ability to support themselves independent of their parents -- a productive member of a capitalist society. A minor does not necessarily have that same freedom (because of other laws, like child labor laws). That restriction is important because it sends a clear signal to those tempted to drop out of school that there will be barriers (and also theoretically involves the parents, implying a certain strength of the family). Why would you drop out of school? Because you're pregnant or because you're suffering from the emotional and psychological issues generated from considering and implementing abortion. High school drop outs usually are a liability to society, unable to produce much with their lives (they influence limited amounts of happiness). That family having to support their child for a longer period of time will spend less money. Furthermore, this effects the amount of retirement funds allocated to the family and to the child. A high school graduate will not be able to put in as much into the social security system as a college graduate. This stresses an already stressed (perhaps even broken) system. This law is in support of family. And that isn't just a moral statement, but a measurable economic factor as well. Japan is beginning to show signs of familial breakdown and their health system is having to support more people in their old-age. Same for Europe.

      Don't assume the problem is so small.

    10. Re:Gracious Me! by Scaba · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, it's the Corporate Justice System. Prisoners make fine cheap laborers for a good number of American corporations, as well as a profit center for said corporations and privately run correctional facilities. Now do you understand why having some reefer is an imprisonable offense? It's always the dollars. (Not surprisingly, Tom DeLay has profitted from prison profit centers. Hopefully someone will now profit from his imminent incarceration...)

    11. Re:Gracious Me! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Has it never occured to you that all law is about morality?

    12. Re:Gracious Me! by mdwh2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Law is an external deposit of morality. Your idea of deciding if something is immoral is testing to see if it hurts someone. You want law to minimize suffering. You think suffering is a Bad thing (absolute moral qualifier). There are a lot of people who think morality is different. You not only look down upon their beliefs, but also think that your way is better. That your version of morality is better.

      Law and morality, althoug related, are not the same thing. If you think that actions which don't harm others are nonetheless wrong, then fine, that's your opinion. But you need a stronger argument than that to show why we should put such people in prison.

      If one's argument is that the law should enforce (your interpretation of) God's will, then sure, you can say their opinion is just as valid as my opinion of what the law should be. But that's exactly what the OP was pointing out when he called it the "Catholic Justice System" - ie, law which enforces the rules of a religion.

      To speak more specifically on the idea of incarcerating adults (18 year olds) who have sex with minors (less than 18 years old), you could always consider the utilitarian argument. For the most part, 18 year olds have a chance at economic freedom, the ability to support themselves independent of their parents -- a productive member of a capitalist society.

      Not when they're in prison they don't. If you're so worried about people's productivity, why are we so eager to put them in prison because their actions might have led to someone getting pregnant whilst as school, and then might drop out of school?

      Why would you drop out of school? Because you're pregnant or because you're suffering from the emotional and psychological issues generated from considering and implementing abortion.

      Yes, it's well known that sex between same-sex members can produce children, that's why we punish them even more harshly!

      Don't you see? Try to justify it all you like, but these laws are not explained by the problems of teenage pregnancy.

      And that isn't just a moral statement, but a measurable economic factor as well.

      I take it you've factored in the productivity lost by locking up people (even where it didn't result in pregnancy), or the cost to keep them in prison?

      Also, do you advocate raising the age of consent to 21 - after, we can't have people dropping out of University. Perhaps we should clamp down on it altogether - we can't have people's careers being affected by childbirth.

      Japan is beginning to show signs of familial breakdown and their health system is having to support more people in their old-age. Same for Europe.

      Erm, evidence? Here in the UK our families are doing quite well, and our national health system, though under strain, is still something better than the US.

      As for retirement, that is a problem due to having too few children! If anything, we need to encourage people to have more children, even at a younger age.

  2. Minor Flaw? by futurekill · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What the hell is considered a major flaw?

    --
    The gates in my computer are AND, OR and NOT; they are not Bill.
    1. Re:Minor Flaw? by nametaken · · Score: 1, Insightful

      What the hell is considered a major flaw?

      When a stock market crashes.

      When a smartbomb hits a daycare.

      When people are given the wrong blood type at the hospital.

      This is minor, no bones about it.

  3. Minor glitch ? by zappepcs · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I hope the software is run on Windows... If my bank was off by that much even once, I'd get a new bank!

    I'm not saying that mistakes don't happen, but that's bad! Fortunately no one like John Wayne Gayce was let out mistakenly.

    What are the odds that the 'software glitch' has a SSN and enjoys fast food?

    --
    Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
  4. Let out late... by sholden · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'd be more worried about those that got let out late. Surely that's ground for a lawsuit and some damages. Not to mention ciminal charges against those that illegally kept people in prison.

  5. Human rights issues by infolib · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The real victims in this case are the ones who were kept longer in jail without conviction. It's quite scary that no one at WLNS apparently cares about them. A toast to the future of the american justice system. I hope it has one.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
  6. Re:Released prisoners late? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Having had a "friend" involved in the corrections system I find the article missing some key information. Most states hand out time with both a minimum and a maximum sentence. So, far example, one might get a 3 1/2 to 7 year sentence. This means you may get out on parole after 3 1/2 years but if they don't want to let you go they can keep you 7 years. Also, sometimes one could get time taken off the minimum sentence for participating in various "programs" or for "good behaviour" but the max usually stays where it started. So, what I want to know is this: Did they keep them earlier/later than their minimum sentence or maximum sentence? If one got kept later than their minimum sentence, there is no legal recourse because technically they can keep you to the max. If they let you out before your minimum sentence then they really screwed up in letting you out earlier. If they let you out later then your maximum sentence then they really screwed up and could face a lawsuit. Anything in the middle would just suck for one side, but not be a legal issue.

  7. Someone should remind Representative Rick Jones... by kronocide · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...that once you have served your time you are again a citizen. So why is it more upsetting that criminals are released early than that citizens are kept locked up in prison? I think that is at least as problematic.

  8. Re:The opposite happened In Dallas TX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Me. The Third World consists of countries aligned with neither the United States nor the Soviet Union. The United States is by definition a first-world country and will always be.

  9. Re:computer flaw? how about organisation flaw? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Your second question could easily be rephrased as; how many people were beaten or moved for freaking out when they weren't let out on time? This also relates to your first question. The answer is noone gives a Sh*t when your in jail (except your lawyer and your family).

  10. Re:Consider the source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "I just wanted to point out how how she was."

    Damnit! I meant how hot. How how, white man.

  11. Re: administering controlled drugs by Slayer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Repeatedly I read the theory that all (or most) drug related crimes and activities would misteriously go away if those drugs would be administered by trained professionals who would only give them to those who really need them.

    There exist drugs which are handed out like this (all prescription drugs) and yet there also exists a blooming black market for those. Just read your favourite spam if you don't believe me. So if the concept doesn't work for Cialis, Viagra, Prozac and whatever they are called (I'm just citing from the spam I get), why would this suddenly work with heroin, crack and cannabis ?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most addicts start thinking about ending their addiction for the first time once they are confronted with a criminal court (i.e. get a drastic picture of their situation) ? The vast majority of drug addicts will only go to those doctors voluntarily if no questions are asked but certainly not to break with their habbits or to go through often painful treatment (just read the conspiracy theories about methadone as substitute for heroin out there!).