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Fighting FUD with Humor

Technophiliac writes to tell us MadPenguin in running a review of "Fighting FUD With Humor" Marcel Gagné's 2nd edition of "Moving to Linux". From the article: "The biggest obstacle is fear. Modern Linux distributions are easy to install and easy to use. Unfortunately, we are constantly presented with messages telling us that it's too hard and that the average person couldn't possibly grasp the complexity. That's rubbish. People aren't stupid and people who use computers learn new things all the time."

19 of 530 comments (clear)

  1. It's not that it's hard by ankarbass · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People don't want to switch because they think they need office. Simple as that.

    --
    Wanted: Clever sig, top $ paid, all offers considered.
    1. Re:It's not that it's hard by gothfox · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm saying packages shouldn't exist. Period.

      I like the fact that all software on my systems are completely managed, e.g. I can easily tell which file belongs to each package and vice versa. I like the fact that my systems are upgradeable by issuing one command over the internet. I don't like dll hell of Windows or base system/ports .so hell of BSDs, sorry. The reality is that Linux software world is comprised of miriads of libraries and small applications, not just dozen big names from posh vendors like Microsoft or Adobe. This situation requires advanced package handling tools. No, whining about it won't help, just man up and deal with it.

      Tell that to the millions of Mac OS X users. They will laugh at you as they merely drag Applications to the Applications folder.

      Tell these millions of users that I can upgrade my server park with one shell command and I see this kind of functionality as basic and required even for my desktop machines. Pray tell, how am I worse than Grandma Tillie, why my needs should be sacrificed for some very questionable usability ideas?

      THere's this concept called "Bundles" where all shared libraries, language packs, and binaries for multiple architectures are stored in a single folder that appears to be a single application.

      I don't know about you, but I don't want twenty versions of slightly different GTKs each in its own bundle all loaded at different addresses hogging memory and diskspace for the sake of some Grandma Tillie's usability. Sorry, just because Holy Apple does something doesn't mean it is best idea ever for any possible use case. And just because some self proclaimed usability experts (which always seem to come out of the woodwork in any Linux-related discussions, oh dear) can't spend 15 minutes to figure out the packages on their own doesn't mean that people who require functionality they provide should just switch off the lights and go home. Which, surprisingly, always seems to be the case, because those experts always know better for everyone of us.

      By the way, even Microsoft recently began to reinvent package management, albeit poorly like they usually do at first. Even they begin to understand that dozen different incompatible installers is not the way, and bundles are actually no better either.

      (Sorry, this came out somewhat rantish, I've got nothing personal against you, just needed to get this off my chest).

  2. HAHA by buttwidget · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People are smart... Someone doesn't deal with the public...

  3. Clearly... by fatcatman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People aren't stupid and people who use computers learn new things all the time."

    Clearly, this person has never performed basic tech support. I mean, come on. If you have that much faith in humanity, you've never done time as "The I.T. Guy" in a typical office. Turn in your geek card, sir, and report to AOL for further processing.

  4. Bzzzzt! by rackhamh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People aren't stupid

    No, but they're easily confused.

    and people who use computers learn new things all the time.

    Hard to believe, given that most non-technical people (and some of the technical ones) in my building haven't even learned not to double-click URLs. When things don't work, it's attributed to gremlins, and when it does work, it's attributed to a higher diety.

    I'm sorry, but the REAL obstacles (hint: fear isn't one of them) to adopting an entirely new operating system don't go away just by putting your fingers in your ears and shouting, "NAH NAH NAH, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!"

    1. Re:Bzzzzt! by antiMStroll · · Score: 4, Insightful
      This

      "... people (and some of the technical ones) in my building haven't even learned not to double-click URLs."

      contradicts this

      "...the REAL obstacles (hint: fear isn't one of them) to adopting an entirely new operating system..."

      If they don't understand double-click how will the OS make any difference? They aren't configuring hardware or apps anyway.

      I'm the last person to ascribe extraordinary technical prowess to the general public and yet sucessfully converted a staff of 50 to what in effect is PC-based multimedia editing from tape without a hitch. One staff member just celebrated his 50th year in the industry and has never required our help. Step one: make them part of the application selection process. Step two: an orderly rollout with scheduled training. Step three: encouraging self support and establishing staff 'experts' outside of the normal support channels. It's not that hard.

      On the other hand, we're also a distinct division outside of the normal 'MSCE' pool. If there's any group with finger in ears here it's the latter, imposing solutions on users as mandates and forcing them to work around bugs and unresolved system idiosyncracies from memory. 'Lusers' can do a hell of a lot more than most IT support gives them credit.

  5. Not easy to configure by mymaxx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not for someone from the Windows world, anyway. If you need to configure anything that isn't out of the box, like latest graphics card support or wireless, you're left out in the cold. You'll have to spend hours Googling for people that have gotten it to work or clues as to how it might work. Then more hours editing configuration files, compiling, rebooting...sometimes all spent in vain.

    If there is ONE thing Windows is good at, it is getting stuff configured. It may not be as powerful or flexible, but at least it is easy. Sometimes, you just need to get things done.

    1. Re:Not easy to configure by Tiger4 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      "Sometimes, you just need to get things done

      Not just sometimes. For most people in the tech services area, they like a challenge, more or less. Configuring things and solving problems is what got them into the field in the first place. But the vast majority of computer users just want to get the job done. They don't care how it works, or why, or what options are behind the command line switches. This thing is a tool. An appliance. More complicated than a screwdriver.

      But basically it is a toaster.

      Turn it on, it does something useful, turn it off. Anything that requires understanding what is under the interface is hard. Anything that requires thinking about how the interface works is effectively impossible. Windows lets users get away with that. Macs are great at it. Linux (so far) makes the users learn how it works. Or at least ask for a lot of help.

      --
      Behold, this dreamer cometh. Come now, and let us slay him... and we shall see what will become of his dreams.
  6. not easy enough to install, not easy enough to use by bcrowell · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Modern Linux distributions are easy to install and easy to use.
    I'm a computer geek. There was a period where Linux was too hard for me to install -- I tried and failed a few times. Finally, about four years ago, the installs got easier (and I learned more) so I got a working install. But it's simply not true that Linux is now easy enough for most computer users to install and use. Most computer users are not computer geeks, and in fact, no OS is easy enough for them to install. They'd have trouble installing Windows from scratch too, but they never had to do it because Windows came preinstalled.

    Just last week I installed the latest Ubuntu. There were two problems that it took me some time and hassles to work out: (1) The sound software I was trying to use didn't work in GNOME, because GNOME uses ESD. I had to do a "killall esd" before it would work. This took some detective work, because none of the software gave me an error message that told me this was what the problem was. (2) I couldn't install some libraries (such as libc6-dev) because they were in a munged state at the point where I did my apt-get update.

    These were time-consuming, frustrating annoyances for me, but for someone who's not a computer geek, they'd be total showstoppers. The average person simply is not going to go looking for help on usenet or IRC (and my experience with posting on the Ubuntu forums has been that I don't get any useful replies, either). The average person will give up.

    And BTW, Gagne might want to update the subtitle of his book, "Kiss the blue screen of death goodbye." I have to use Windows a lot at work. I haven't seen a BSOD in years.

  7. But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How do we fight the FUD of the FUD fighters?

    Can we be honest with ourselves for just one second?

    Claiming that Linux is "easy" to configure is a prima facia falsehood.

    Install is still only about 80-85% not the 99.9% that it needs to be.

    Maintenence of a 6+ month old distro, any distro, is a nightmare as about that time updating no longer works because dependancies on updated dependancies reach an unmanageable threshold. And no, ignoring maintenence is not an option.

    It doesn't anyone any good to spout platitudes about how "easy" Linux is when there are still huge gaping holes in it's ease of use.

    The only way to fight FUD is with truth, not more FUD!

  8. Marvel Gagne? by Otter · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Presumably this is actually Marcel Gagne, best known for his excruciating French chef-themed columns? Consulting him on humor is like consulting the Slashdot editors on spelling.

    Incidentally, writing introductory books like "Kiss the Blue Screen of Death Goodbye!" seems to me to be a dead end. Seething haters of Microsoft (and even they haven't seen a BSOD in five years) don't make up a significant share of Windows users, and pandering to that mentality seems counterproductive.

  9. Glad to hear they're anxious to learn... by oahazmatt · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If Gagne's so sure the average user is more than willing to learn new things, then he can be the one to walk my mother through downloading ISOs for the latest Mandrake build, helping her pick which items to install, explaining why she needs a "gui" (and what it is) and then helping her pick between KDE, Gnome...

    --
    Those who believe the Internet is private,
    find their privates are on the Internet.
  10. Re:Let's be HONEST here by i_should_be_working · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I spent 15 minutes yesterday trying to disable autoplay (for all drives, not just the cdrom) in Windows. In the end I had search on the internet to find the solution, download a program and do some very non-intuitive stuff.

    In GNOME I just go to System->Preferences->Removable Drives and Media.

    Everybody has stories of how they have had a hard time with an OS. It's all just anecdotes which don't prove anything. For me, Linux is easy and pretty because it's what I'm used to. When I have to use Windows it's unfamiliar and illogical. And it sure as hell isn't pretty.

    BTW, the reason I had to disable autoplay is because it was going crazy grinding the system to a halt whenever I connected a usb drive. Never happens in Linux. But again, that's just another anecdote. Doesn't prove anything. I just wish folks from the other side could admit the same thing whey they're talking about the problems they've had with Linux.

  11. Re:At the danger of coming across as an elitist... by KylePflug · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Ignoring the fact that IQ is far from a necessarily accurate indicator of intelligence, what's your point? Half the people are smarter, too.

    People can talk about the "chaos that reigns the world" and attribute it to stupidity all day. Stick those people in a sociology class for a week and hopefully they'll realize that the world is not a damned simple as they think. To attribute a presidential reelection to something like national stupidity is just plain ignorant. Mostly because matters of politics don't correlate well to intelligence at all (and if someone quotes one of thoe hoax IQ maps of the US I'll punch him in the face. Through my monitor).

    Yeah, the average person may or may not be dumber than you. Yeah, there are people even dumber than him. There are also people you'd like like a damn fool next to. I'll say it again: What the hell is your point?

  12. Re:amen to that by conJunk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    no, you are absolutely correct... it's true... but, the one really unhelpful person is the one you remember... there are a lot of *really* helpful people kicking it on IRC waiting for questions from people doing their first install, but they don't stick in one's memory quite the same way

  13. Re:He probably has his reasons. by OzPhIsH · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He's not making a recommendation that people use outlook at home. He's saying "you must use outlook." And I know that's not true, as I have my mother set up with Thunderbird and it works fine. What he could say is "I recommend and can only give support to outlook." That would be another story all together. That would make his job just as easy. In this case, he either he doesn't know you can use another e-mail client (he is an mcse moron), or he blatently lied when he said you had to use outlook (He's a liar). But whatever, I guess that makes him perfectly qualified for a rank job in the public school system.

    My whole point however, which we've drifted from, is that this reliance, or just perceived reliance on Microsoft products is institutionalized. People hear this kind of stuff every single day, much of it false, from people who are supposed to know what they are talking about. This everyday experience drives the notion that Microsoft is a necessity.

    --

    "To lead the people, you must walk behind them"

  14. Whatever! by shumacher · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Linux could be easy. My mother, who had expressed pride in never having used a computer, recently discovered, quite by accident, just how much stuff was available on eBay. I had a surplus IBM 300GL sitting about, so I loaded it up with Mandriva 2005. There were the little problems: hiding toolbars accidently, moving the mouse while clicking (accidental drags), not recognizing interface modality. The vanilla hardware on the P3 based desktop installed easily for me, and after setting auto-login for her, setting up her email accounts and bookmarks, Gnome was easy for her. She found a few challenges, so I tried giving her a Macintosh. We went back to the Linux machine quickly.

    That having been said, I've used linux before, I've used Windows. If you want to install something not included in the distro, you're in for some work. I tried installing FreeNX on Mandriva over a SSH terminal. I never did get it working. Apropos hadn't been set up by default, and install was failing on a file whose package I couldn't find.

    So, here's what I want in Linux:

    Be better than Windows. Where windows wants to tell you every five minutes that your wireless connection is down even though you're working on a wired connection and your laptop's wifi switch is off, be smarter. Tell the user once, if you must, then leave them alone.

    Install all the docs by default. Never assume that your user doesn't need man pages.

    Label each program with a name that describes what it does. Look at Windows accessories. Most of the program names are much less abstract. Backup, Address Book, Notepad, Command Prompt, Backup, Security Center, Disk Defragmenter, Disk Cleanup. So, what's easier, drakxconf or Control Panel? Let's also map some commands to likely alternatives. man is good, but what if help worked too? Maybe if help pointed to an overview of man, apropos, lynx and some docs?

    Usabilty testing by non programmers. I like vi about as much as the average person. That is, not very. compared to the MS-DOS edit.exe, vi is pretty weak. Or rather, it's very strong, but it makes what should be a 100% intuitive task for anyone familiar with a computer into a series of random button-pushing and man-reading sessions.

    Build a roadmap.So, this distro wants the config file here, and that distro wants it there. Super! Fine! But if you want to put this sort of thing all over, how about building a map? I'd love to be able to download a single installer, run it (in the gui!) let it figure out where everything is, what needs to be downloaded, what dependencies need satisfying. Fix it all, and exit. I hate installing software that didn't come with the distro currently. Windows does this well, Mac does this well, why is this so hard for Linux?

    Welcome your users. Sure, you may never click through the overly-animated Welcome to Windows intro. Some people will. Just a quick tour of the nifty little features of your OS, some quick pointers to the help, the configuration, the browser, the email, and most people will be fine. Add a world-class tutorial. Back in the days of the classic Mac OS, there were tutorials that included clicking, double clicking, dragging, hovering, typing, text entry fields, dialog boxes (modal and non-modal) menus, powering off. The basics that most of us nerds don't remember learning have to be taught to some people! Linux should teach them, by default.

  15. stupid stupid stupid by Schwarzgerat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Most people don't know what they are doing in windows, even kids with good marks at school and college continually do and say really really stupid things. people are stupid.

  16. RED HERRING ALERT! by Crayon+Kid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "How the fuck am I supposed to support 500 different pieces of software?"

    Insightful? What are you people on? What does MS specifically have to do with making sure that the client who needs support uses (tada, drum shot) supported software?

    Obviously, sane people who offer technical support (and want to remain sane) will make sure first thing that the clients will be using only stuff they (the support) know about! What exactly that thing is (MS products or a KDE suite) is irrelevant, as long as both the client and the support person know what it is.

    So there's no inherent advantage to using MS products, unless you're already locked in because your support contractor only supports MS products.

    --
    i ate crayons when i was a kid and now i have two braincells and the blue ones taste nicer