.Net Framework and Visual Studio Now Available

DJ-Dodger writes "The Microsoft Blogs are all buzzing with news that the .NET Framework 2.0, Visual Studio.NET 2005 and Sql Server 2005 have released to manufacture. Michael Swanson's blog has a nice run down of what's available now and what's coming. The short version: MSDN Subscribers can download everything now, everybody else can pick up their copy after the November 7th launch." The .Net framework is downloadable from FileForum.

Comments

Oh boy!

[Anonymous Coward]

I just love Microsoft products! Now, I just wait for the karma to roll in ...

Torrent?

[fuzzy12345]

Sheesh. At least point us to a torrent.

And "SQL Server 2005"? Shouldn't that be 2006? What do I want with last year's model?

Direct download

[dedazo]

If you're downloading the 2.0 framework & SDK (many people write .NET apps without Visual Studio), you can get them directly from the MSDN .NET developer center.

I'm guessing MSDN is going to be less swamped than FileForum, though the subscriber downloads are extremely slow at the moment as expected.

You could get a free copy

[mymaxx]

They are handing out free copies at their launch events.

Sql Server 2005 eh ?

[testednegative]

I wonder if they still have the wonderfull sa/(null) feature. God I loved that one...

Cool!

[dslauson]

As much as I hate to give MS props, C# is one of my favorite languages to program in. I'm a GNU programmer at heart, but programming C# is like brain candy. I don't have to think about memory allocation or anything even remotely machine-related.

I know, I know, Java's got that stuff, too. I like 'em both. A guy can swing both way, right?

Re:Cool!

[geoffrobinson]

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Re:Cool!

[dslauson]

Mono didn't create the language, they just created another runtime environment for it. They get my props for doing that, too. I'm just trying to give credit where credit is due.

Honestly, the way I feel about it is that if I'm going to write real software, I'm going to write it in C++ and I'm going to write it for Linux. If I'm just dicking around writing some code for Windows, sometimes C# is fun.

I swear, you give a Microsoft product one little backhanded complement on this site, and people are all over you. This isn't a fascist Linux dictatorship, you know. It's a forum for people to express oppinions and share information.

Re:Cool!

[Thai-Pan]

Thank you! I feel exactly the same. I've been a Linux hippie for years, but I'm very rapidly converting to the dark side. Get prepared for a rant not specific to just C#...

I don't care what anyone says, C# is way better than Java. And I have ~5 years experience with Java, 6 months experience with C#. It converted me in no time. C# is very pleasant and the language just seems to get out of your way when you want to do something, largely because of the .Net framework.

I'm tired of the fact that it's "cool" to make fun of Microsoft on Slashdot. But you know what? They have a lot of very solid products. Visual Studio is a fantastic IDE. SQL Server is not always the server of choice, but it is very powerful nonetheless.

I'd say this is going to be a very big year for Microsoft. All of their major product groups have a major release due out, and they're all looking very good from what I've seen so far.

So we may not always like Microsoft's products in every way, and we may downright hate some of their business practices. Does that make Visual Studio and C# any worse of a product? Does that make Microsoft Word a worse word processor? NO.

"OMG WINDOWS 95 HAD BLUE SCREENS LOL C# MUST BE BAD" -- Grow up.

The entire open source community needs to grow up a little bit. There's a tremendous amount of talent in it, but it's so obscured by absurd social stigmas and internet-Green-Peace propaganda that a great deal of it loses credability. Visual Studio is a great IDE. C# is a great language. Office is a great productivity toolkit. People use them. Live with it, move on.

Re:Cool!

[m4g02]

I don't care what anyone says, C# is way better than Java. And I have ~5 years experience with Java, 6 months experience with C#. It converted me in no time. C# is very pleasant and the language just seems to get out of your way when you want to do something, largely because of the .Net framework.

I agree C# is better than Java but I don't like both, I know you don't need to cover your traces when dealing with memory and dynamic allocation, but you are sacrificing quite a bit of processor time and system memory in the process. Garbage collectors and every other tool meant to make programming easy costs heavily in time and hardware. Most probably you are going to say that now days computers are fast enough to pay the toll but that is true only for certain cases. Think about AI, speech recognition (even an OS) and many other processor demanding tasks, you would like to use wisely every tick of the clock... As always the method to solve the problem is in the problem itself, but I personally would like to spend my days developing something more significant than a monthly savings report for McDonalds so I'm glad to take my time, use my brain and continue developing on C++.

So we may not always like Microsoft's products in every way, and we may downright hate some of their business practices. Does that make Visual Studio and C# any worse of a product? Does that make Microsoft Word a worse word processor? NO.

No, it doesn't, but as business practices go you can be damn sure they are going to struggle to suck your money up with incompatibilities, upgrades and what else.

Re:Cool!

[ClosedSource]

Actually, it was Sun who undermined it. They were more interested in the WORE fantasy then in the adoption of the language. If they hadn't sued MS, Java would probably have been second only to VB as the language of choice on Windows, C# would not exist, and the number of desktop Java apps would probably be an order of magnitude higher.

I believe that Sun wanted Java to be somewhat slow on all systems equally so they could sell Java processors that accelerated Java applications to native speeds. Having a Java implementation that optomized performance on Windows threatened that plan. Thus the suit.

Windows without a compiler?!

[zerojoker]

This article made me think about it. I mean Microsoft is shipping an operating system without a compiler included. Isn't that strange, that everyone takes this as normal? Isn't a compiler an integral part of an operating system.
I mean sure, a nice IDE is something different, and with those Express Editions things have changed now, but still... if you buy a computer out of the box you can't program it. Not even a simple compiler, Basic or whatever.
In the good ol' days that would have been unthinkable...

Re:Windows without a compiler?!

[fractaloon]

In the old days computers were only bought by geeks. Nowadays only a small percantage of people care about a compiler. 'sides, can't you just code using in CRL and a text editor as long as you have the .Net framework?

Last Years Model?

[SuperKendall]

And "SQL Server 2005"? Shouldn't that be 2006? What do I want with last year's model?

I'm pretty sure it's not a year thing, I believe it was either a required number of open ports to run or how many default logins with blank passwords it offers that you have to unset manually one by one.

No.

[Anonymous Coward]

How many computer users are also computer programmers?

Did your router come with a manual that discusses the Ethernet protocol?

Did your car come with all the tools necessary to change the oil and rotate the tires?

Did your DVD player's manual talk about the DVD specification?

Did your LCD's documentation discuess signal pins and timings of the driver it uses?

No, because very few people would find it useful. Linux comes with everything because it is a hacker's operating system. Windows doesn't because it is a user's operating system.

Re:Uh-oh.

[stupidfoo]

The express products are actually going to be pretty reasonable. Around $49 a piece I believe.

Java will still rule

[thammoud]

The fact of the matter is that C# will never be able to erode Java's dominance since it is not cross platform. Don't sell me on the Mono project. It is still a little toy. For the .NET platform to be a true competitor, MS will have to port it to all Java supported platforms. Not very likely. Most projects that we work with are written in Java and Run on various platforms. No amount of .NOT will ever touch that.

Visual Studio Express

[ChaserPnk]

Personally, as a student, Im looking forward to Visual Studio Express editions. You can still grab the Express betas for free. From what I hear, the price point for the final version will be under $100. I think this is a great move by Microsoft. Now millions of students will have access to a cheap, industry standard IDE to code in. What could be better? Not sure when the final versions will be released, but hoping Nov 7 as well.

Even Money Says

[BronxBomber]

Half the /. posts that will piss on this news have not ever used the product, let alone .NET.

Go on, mod me troll... you know its true. I'm all for calling a spade a spade, but it goes both ways.

Re:Won't they please think of backward compatabili

[captain_craptacular]

Give me a break. Are you seriously trying to blame Microsoft because your outdated, extremely poorly coded vb6 apps won't work with a product being released at least 5 years after they became obsolete? Any programmer worth a penny puts things like database connection strings in a single, central, secure place that can be edited without recompiling the app, anything else is inexcuseable.

Furthermore, I don't know what version of SQL server you're running, but you haven't been able to have a blank sa password for at least 2 years. Which tells me that you're either full of it, or running unpatched databases. Would you blame Red Hat if your linux server was hacked via an exploit they patched 3 years ago but you just never bothered to apply the patch?

Re:Won't they please think of backward compatabili

[Anonymous Coward]

Amazing, you hard coded the use of the system administrator login with a blank password into your application and are blaming Microsoft for introducing an "incompatibility?"

Dude, follow these easy steps:

1. Shut the power down to your office
2. Return all hardware to the manufacturers
3. Apply at McDonalds
4. Commit suicide after application rejected due to being a total idiot

That said, just because MS isn't honoring the free incidents provided for the eight year old IDE that is Visual Basic 6.0 doesn't mean that you can't modify the project to fix that lunacy. But go ahead and jump to MySQL/Python. At least you'll be in like company.

Re:Uh-oh.

[AaronBrethorst]

One thing that's worth pointing out here is that you can use the Express Editions of Visual Studio to build commericial or shareware products. I've been asked this several times now, and I don't think we make it clear enough anywhere.

Benefits on .NET 2.0 Framework (via ASP.net)

[PhatboySlim]

For those of us who have worked with ASP.net via .NET Framework 1.1 all of us have been painfully aware of the drawbacks:

- Manual compilation before every execution
- Slow debugging (IIS needs to be restarted to attach to the aspnet_wp process)
- Poorly defined/loose html elements
- Redundant programming/lack of controls (if you didn't take time to roll your own)
- No cross-page posting

Fortunately all these issues have been addressed:

- Pre-compilation
- No need to define html element values as protected
- Thin webserver program for viewing applications (improves debugging)
- Role management out of the box
- 45 new server controls
- Cross-page posting
- Whidbey performance enhancements

Also, to all the Java/PHP fans (myself included) out there, be sure to give this product/platform some serious respect. It is amazing.

Congratulations!

[opusman]

I've been trying to download it for an hour now with no success.

I think we've finally Slashdotted Microsoft!

Re:Changelog for .Net 2

[megame]

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/t357fb32. aspx

64-Bit Platform Support
Access Control List Support
ADO.NET 2.0
ASP.NET 2.0
Authenticated Streams
COM Interop Services Enhancements
Console Class Additions
Data Protection API
Debugger Display Attributes
Debugger Edit and Continue Support
Detecting Changes in Network Connectivity
Distributed Computing
EventLog Enhancements
Expanded Certificate Management
FTP Support
Generics and Generic Collections
Globalization Imp.
I/O Enhancements
Manifest-Based Activation .NET Framework Remoting 2.0
Ping class
Processing HTTP Requests from Within Applications
Programmatic Control of Caching
Security Exceptions
Serial I/O Device Support
Serialization imp.
SMTP Support
Strongly Typed Resource Support
Threading Improvements
Trace Data Filtering
Transactions namespace
Web Services imp.
Windows Forms-Related Features
ClickOnce Deployment
Application Settings
New Data-Binding Model
New Windows Forms Controls
-DataGridView
-ToolStrip
-MaskedTextBox
-Windows Forms SoundPlayer
-ListView control now supports three features provided by Windows XP and the Windows Server 2003 family: tile view, grouping, and drag-and-drop item repositioning.
-ListView, TreeView, and ToolTip controls now support owner drawing
-WebBrowser control
-*LayoutPanel controls
-BackgroundWorker component
-Asynchronous Pattern for Components
XML-Related Features