Using Cell Phones to Track Traffic

msh210 writes "The AP has reported (with additional information from KMOX-AM) that the Missouri Dept. of Transportation will be teaming up with a private company to track in-use cell phones on Missouri highways and state roads in an effort to monitor traffic flow. Individual information will not be stored, they say -- only the aggregate will be studied, using "sophisticated" math. (See also findlaw.com's commentary on privacy concerns. "

Comments

Better idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Using cell phones to track dupes.

Re:Better idea

[stupidfoo]

But, we haven't had a US vs UN Internet root control discussion for days now!

what?

[conJunk]

is it just me, or does this sound like a complete waste of money? privacy concerns aside (i'm not convinced there are any), what will this accomplish that video cameras don't already do?

so we'll use mobile phone signals to monitor traffic? seems heaps less efficient that actually looking at real traffic volume...

Re:what?

[LordNimon]

Video cameras can't count cars. A device which detects cell phones can.

Re:what?

[GoodOmens]

This has been going on for the past 6 months in Maryland.

http://www.mddailyrecord.com/pub/5_398_friday/busi nessnews/172883-1.html

MMTIS uses the movement between towers, without collecting personal information, and uses that data to determine speed and movement in specific areas.

Re:what?

[honeypotslash]

They must be trying to get people to stop using cell phones while driving by making them paranoid that they are being tracked.

Re:what?

[Surt]

I think you got that backward: a cell phone detector can only count cell phones. For example, a bus with 18 people using cellphones on it is not 18 cars. A video camera, on the other hand, can tell you exactly how many cars are on the road, and what types and sizes, and their speeds.

Re:what?

[thelexx]

"privacy concerns aside (i'm not convinced there are any)"

Really. Would you like a personally assigned police officer to trail you around 100% of the time you aren't in your house or on your lawn, taking notes on what you are doing? Once pervasive enough, remote surveillance accomplishes the same exact thing. A velvet cage is still a cage.

Re:what?

[mspohr]

If you had RTFA, you would know that this works without the user talking on the phone... the phone is always in contact with the towers so that the phone company knows where to find it even when you are not talking.

Re:what?

[mspohr]

A cell phone tracker can tell how fast traffic is moving by knowing how fast each particular phone traveled from point A to point B. You don't really need to know how many cars/busses/trucks are on the road. You only need one cell phone traveling to tell the speed of the traffic which is the important information here.

Re:what?

[mspohr]

Since you don't want to read it..

From TFA:

Although most new cell phones come equipped with Global Positioning System capabilities that can pinpoint their locations, the tracking technology used for transportation agencies does not depend on that. Instead, it takes the frequent signals that wireless phones send to towers and follows the movement of the phones from one tower to another. Then it overlays that data with highway maps to determine where the phones are and how fast they are moving. Lumping thousands of those signals together can indicate traffic flow. To keep from being tracked, motorists could turn off their cell phones. A Delcan demonstration Web site developed for Baltimore uses various shades of green, yellow and red to show block-byblock whether vehicles are moving at or below the speed limits. As rush hour started on a recent workday, observers could watch as green turned to yellow and then red on roads heading out of downtown.

How about using "search" to track dupes?

[Gothmolly]

For instance, a simple search would have uncovered This Page.

I'll save them some money

[stlhawkeye]

Traffic is bad on 40 East in the morning and 40 West in the afternoon. 270 is often packed too. Source: me. I drive it every day.

Re:I'll save them some money

[windows]

Traffic might be predictable somewhat in Saint Louis. I used to live there. I know this.

That being said, I do see some uses for this. I can't count the number of times I've seen the 70 backed up in rural Missouri because of accidents. Maybe it's not that much use in the city of Saint Louis, but it might be worthwhile in, say, Montgomery or Callaway counties which the 70 runs through.

Slippery Slope

[Renraku]

This time next year:

"Your honor, the defendant's cell phone was detected half an hour after the crime was committed, heading away from the crime scene along I-85 doing 65MPH. Clearly, he was speeding to try to get away from the crime scene."

Re:Slippery Slope

[AKAImBatman]

From Lectric Law Library:

CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE - Circumstantial evidence is best explained by saying what it is not - it is not direct evidence from a witness who saw or heard something. Circumstantial evidence is a fact that can be used to infer another fact..

Circumstantial evidence is generally admissible in court unless the connection between the fact and the inference is too weak to be of help in deciding the case.

You need a lot more than a single circumstantial fact to "prove" that someone committed a crime. Rather, you need a large number of such facts that close in on the case and provide a single, inescapable conclusion. Even if you have done that, be prepared for the defense to argue each point under a "hypothetical" context, thus convincing the jury that the "evidence" is nothing more than a set of coincidences presented in such a way as to make the defendent look guilty.

EZ-Pass aleady used for this...

[marcsiry]

Automated toll collection tags used in the Northeast ("EZ-Pass") are already being used to monitor traffic flow. Not only are these tags traceable to you, they are connected to your credit card, which is auto-debited for tolls. Currently they are not being used to auto-ticket speeders (you wouldn't even need to use 'sophisticated' math to figure that one out), but they do warn that the EZ-Pass info will be used for traffic monitoring and monitoring 'violations of your agreement.'

Here it is in the service agreement (search onpage for 'monitoring'):

https://www.ezpass.csc.paturnpike.com/paturnpike/t erms.asp

hypocritic

[p2sam]

Aren't they a bit hypocritic when they discourage cell phone use on the road on one hand, and then try to use cell phone usage to track traffic?

Re:hypocritic

[Tackhead]

> Aren't they a bit hypocritic when they discourage cell phone use on the road on one hand, and then try to use cell phone usage to track traffic?

Not hypocritical at all.

A cell phone is trackable even when its owner is not talking on it.

This article provides a good outline on what happens. Basically, there's a control channel, through which your phone communicates whenever it's got a battery in it. Your phone listens for an SID (System Identification Code) on this channel, and tells the appropriate MTSO (Mobile Telephone Switching Office) "Hi, I'm here". The MTSO has to know where you are, so that it can route incoming calls to the device.

All that's happening here is that the traffic monitoring folks are listening in on the back-channel communications between a large number of cell phones and base stations, and using the changes in location (as averaged over a large number of devices) to guesstimate the average speed of traffic. Individualized cell phone tracking is useless for a traffic flow application, so it's actually highly likely that the traffic folks are telling you the truth when they say that individual data isn't being logged, and that only aggregate data is being recorded.

The technology's nothing new - a system like this is necessarily a part of any wireless phone system, otherwise your phone couldn't ring when someone called you. No such agency is now permitted to do such a thing domestically (a sentence that can be parsed in at least eight ways, all of which are true), but they probably don't, because everyone else who's also interested in individualized tracking, is already doing this, has been doing this for years, and is using other tricks in software to locate their targets to within a few meters, all in real-time. They aren't using the traffic-control folks' data, because they don't need it.

Privacy concerns

[Mostly a lurker]

The concept of tracking cell phone movements to assist in optimising traffic flow seems to me a good one. I expect other similar good ideas to be forthcoming. Surely, there ought to be technological solutions to allow tracking while reliably protecting individual privacy. Perhaps, each cell phone could generate a short term session identifier (24 hours in duration and not tied in an obvious way to the phone number) for use in such tracking applications? It might also be feasible to allow paranoid phone owners to opt out.

Nothing to see here, please move along

[Anonymous Coward]

This is just the government's way of beowulf clustering our cellphones.

What they will find out...

[TheOtherAgentM]

is that cell phones are the cause of much traffic. People on cell phones slow down or even get into accidents.

Does powering off work?

[Karma_fucker_sucker]

Cell phone users may be able to accomplish the same thing by turning off their phones - but at the cost of not receiving what might be important calls from spouses, children, elderly relatives and others.

I once read, here I beleive, that powering off a cell phone doesn't keep it from transmitting. You have to remove the battery or put it into a foil bag. Is this correct?

What is the best to protect your privacy with regard to location with a cell?

As a St. Louis commuter...

[fak3r]

As a St. Louis commuter I can see some value in this, since almost everyone on the road is too focused on the mobile device in their right hand to use any lane change indicators! Still, I can see the privacy concerns, however, if all they're doing is monitoring how much traffic (radio waves) are in the area, it's far different than them listening in. Think about all the radio waves flying around you right now, if you had a device to tell you how much of that energy is moving around, what's the big?

Re:As a St. Louis commuter...

[hebie]

I am calling in from my cell...please keep this brief, but what is a lane change indicator

My state makes me sad

[MacFury]

They do boneheaded things like this all too often. They are seriously considering shutting down HWY40, a major highway that connects the suburbs to the city. HWY40 doesn't have exit and on ramps that are the proper length, so they want to do construction to fix all that. If they shut that highway down it will double or triple many peoples morning commute.

Of course, if people would simply stop trying to cut everyone else off, and not drive like total pricks, there wouldn't be any problem. Not to mention the fact that the white flight has caused all these upper middle class jerks to move out of the city but still work there, burning gas for hours each day just to drive back and forth to work.

Re:My state makes me sad

[lpangelrob]

Ever think that maybe, just maybe, deficient highway design leads to more accidents?

Case in point — Interstate 74 in Peoria, Illinois. Worst urban highway I've ever driven on. The signs specifically tell you to keep left so that you don't collide with merging traffic. This is after you have to keep right... so that you don't collide with merging traffic coming in from the left. This is because the ramps in this area are about 500 feet long (most modern Interstates give you about a quarter of a mile... 1600 feet) because of space issues in the 1970's. A handful of ramps were marked as 15 mph exit ramps. One of the ones I frequented had a 10 mph dead-man's U-turn.

3/4ths of the way into rebuilding, I can already tell that, thanks to modern highway design, there will be far fewer accidents, injuries, and fatalities on the road because drivers won't have to do crazy things to get on and off the highway.

Not clean! Must wash again!

[TheTranceFan]

Ack!! The unclosed parenthesis at the end of the OP is compelling me to wash my hands over and over. And it's not helping.

My first thought

[Control Group]

I can't be the only person whose first thought was of Doctorow's Eastern Standard Tribe, can I?

Not that this has anything to do with music...but it's certainly a step in the direction of Doctorow's future.

That data is already tracked

[bigtrike]

Your cell phone carrier already tracks that information. I don't know if it's saved, but tracking your movements via your cell phone was doable at least 15 years ago, probably much longer. This used to require a warrant, which probably went away with the "patriot" act.

Be careful what you assume

[LaughingCoder]

So then, a bus full of high school teenagers with cell phones will look like a major traffic jam?

It doesn't matter

[rancmeat]

It doesn't matter what they say the info will be used for. The fact is they will be storing it, and as long as it exists there is the certainty that a lawyer will be able to convince a judge to use it for what it was never intended for.

Let's say the neighbor of a good friend is busted selling drugs. The DA could subpoena records that show you visiting that location on a regular basis, and suddenly you find yourself with a lot of unwanted and unwarranted attention.

It doesn't matter what the data is intended for, the collection of it opens a Pandora's box and the sincerity of the original party collecting the data becomes meaningless when the data vultures show up at the feast.

Skewed Results

[rubberbando]

The makeup of the passengers of a vehicle could greatly effect the results.

Think about it, a car full of teenagers will show several cell phone signals versus a car full of seniors or nuns which would probably have 0 cell phones inside.

Re:Does powering off work?

[Detritus]

All of the cell phones that I have seen turn off the receiver and transmitter when they are turned off. The only things that stay on are the clock, keyboard scanning, battery charger controller and backup power for volatile memory.

missing the point...

[PoPRawkZ]

You don't have to be using the cell phone for the cell phone to be used to monitor traffic. There is no hypocrasy here as nobody is promoting talking on cell phones while in traffic. Also, with monitoring such a large number of signals, I find it hard to believe they will be able to simultaneously figure out who is speeding. That would require multiple triangulations on each signal, requiring a much larger infrastructure. We can put away our fears of Big Brother for the moment.

Re:Does powering off work?

[voice_of_all_reason]

You gotta shut it down, lock it up, and dig a moat around it

Already live in the Netherlands

[Anonymous Coward]

For a live version somewhere else in the world, check http://actueleverkeersinformatie.brabant.nl/. This shows traffic density between Breda and Tilburg in the southern part of the Netherlands. Don't forget to enter the image verification code on the left!

Re:Ever more glad I don't have a cell phone

[marcsiry]

Lucky you! Now you can go back to the exciting days of sitting at home because you are 'expecting a call!'

You get to be one of those fortunate jobhunters who 'wait by the phone!'

For some bizarre reason, when my cellphone goes off I am somehow able to ignore it... in fact, I rarely pick up my phone for any caller unless it's someone I *really* want to speak with. No caller ID? You're welcome to leave a voicemail that I may review at some point in the future.

To me, a cellphone is an enabling technology- it enables me to make and receive phone calls at my convenience. It does not force me to take work calls after hours, nor does it force me to answer it everytime it rings in a movie theater. Those are human behaviors that I can control. I guess if you can't control your own behaviors, then getting rid of the technology that enables bad behaviors is the only answer...

What you say?

[eno2001]

I'm sorry but there is only one solution to all statistical problems that require tracking data. The Count from Sesame Street:

"One!! One car travelling down i90!!! Ahahahahah!!! Two!! Two cars travelling down i90!!! Ahahahahaha!!!..." ;P

Re:what?-Under pressure.

[bdcrazy]

IDOT in the chicago area uses microwave and inductor loop detectors to determine traffic flow and has been doing this for a long time. If you want up to the minute traffic flows, you can go to http://www.gcmtravel.com/

SONNOVA!!!

[His name cannot be s]

I worked for a company in 2000 where we had done exactly this.

We built an entire set of services around tracking cellphones and the first thing we demo'd was a videowall anon tracking cell users on freeways.

We did a bunch of work for the NRC (National Research Council) here in Canada and got a grant to study it further.

Then the bubble burst, VC funding dried up and they sold off their assets.

*sigh*

What about airplanes?

[jmcwork]

What happens when someone on an airplane turns on their phone? Does it it look like some car is doing 500 mph cross-country?

Murphy's Law

[petantik f00l]

These kind of schemes always end in tears for everyone. Sounds like a good idea on paper but the system complexity will end up being enormous.

1. The information will be organised and recorded at one central location - which will break
2. It uses the latest technology and, i assume, some stastical/mathematical techniques - which will probably be
incorrect and will end up giving false results anyway
3. 1 and 2 will cause extra congestion and extra cost - yippee!!!




http://petantik.blogsome.com/ - A Lucid Look at Reality

In the words of C.W. McCall...

[Overzeetop]

...We Got Us A CONVOY..."

Re:what?-Under pressure.

[bdcrazy]

You touched on the long term uses of these and other traffic monitoring devices, it may not be needed or necessary but it is rather helpful for me.

I use the real time data every morning to determine whether i take i90 to the office, or i290. I use whichever is the least congested, and or change the time i leave for work. This is one of the main uses of the data i can think of.

Another is from the traffic data they can usually determine there was an accident before it has even beeen reported, and use the cameras to find out what is happening. They have overhead signs every so often on all main highways. If they post there is an accident ahead, people will be more cautious and/or find alternate routes.

cellphones WAY less expensive

[SethJohnson]

Video cameras? That's the most expensive and least effective way to guage traffic. For starters, you've got falliable humans watching video output from the cameras. These humans require salaries, healthcare, retirement, paid vacation, etc. At most, with human-video camera implementations, you get, "Yeah, that street looks clogged up. Maybe you should take that other one."

With modern cellphones reporting GPS coordinates, you get computer-measured flow data from the roadways. This is where a program can actually be written to give real-time routing suggestions to emergency vehicles. If you need to get to the hospital quick, coordinating a bunch of civil servants watching monitors 8 hours a day to decide on the best route is not what I think is the best method.

Seth

re "sophisticated"

[mkcmkc]

Speaking as a resident, let me give you an example of what passes for "sophisticated". For several years, after people complained about tax forms being sent out with their SSN's on them, they started encrypting them. How? Using a substitution cipher (e.g., 4 for 1, 7 for 2, etc.) Now that's sophisticated...